E39 540i crank no start following timing chain replacement

[TheAngryBear]

Congrats on the restarts! You know you have life still there. Couple of questions:
1) when you did your 5 restarts did you let it run between them or on/off/on/off etc? Even a warmed engine can still get borewash and yours is ... susceptible... right now.
2) what was the interval on the old oil? How dirty? One of the issues may be the vanos is run off oil pressure so clogs or wrong viscosity oil may give issues. I don't think you have the wrong oil but you probably had high fuel levels in the post guides oil then dirty oil put back plus whatever junk has been knocked loose may be causing issues.
3) how did you do your upper timing cover reinstall? Straight in, double washer method, ???


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[geargrinder]

Man this is a fascinating case (unfortunately).

At this point we have to believe that the long-standing theory (splash/intial_nostart then bore_wash/oil_contamination/extended_nostart) has been totally validated. However... what is still or now wrong....

Option 1 - Maybe indeed the theory is 'incomplete'. Maybe poor timing was indeed ALSO a contributor to the above, and what made the engine so sensitive to a borewash. Maybe getting poor compression due to bad timing.

Option 2 - Also very possible the coolant splash contaminated connectors for either the cam sensors, or, the solenoids themselves.

I would for sure check all 4 connectors concerned very closely first just in case its a signal issue, because that's easy. If there's ANY sign of coolant in the connectors then I'd hit w WD40 first, then contact cleaner to rinse that out.

Beyond that, rechecking the cam timing is obv a PITA but may be required. Have you tried the 'drill bit' test w/ the shutter alignment holes?

Re: the actual timing - after you did the initial timing, did you turn the engine through 720 degrees and re-lock/re-check several times, or did you just bolt it all back together static once? In my limited experience, turning through one or more times is absolutely critical to take up all the slack in the chain. If you didn't do that then easily the cams could be solidly off.

[JimLev]

Have you ever check the fuel pressure when it wouldn't start? Might be good to do it again.
When you try to start it does it fire at all?

I wish I had a buck for every person I've helped with your same codes. They did the drill bit test thru the upper timing cover which looked good, however there is too much slop to get a go/no go reading.

Will be waiting to see if you did the manual turning of the crank and then verify the trigger wheel were still OK.

[TheAngryBear]

Have you ever check the fuel pressure when it wouldn't start? Might be good to do it again.
When you try to start it does it fire at all?

I wish I had a buck for every person I've helped with your same codes. They did the drill bit test thru the upper timing cover which looked good, however there is too much slop to get a go/no go reading.

Will be waiting to see if you did the manual turning of the crank and then verify the trigger wheel were still OK.

I had to do your method 4 times. The first two I forgot about the lash and ended up thinking it wasn't timed. The I remembered and did it twice to ensure it. Great video btw.


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[JimLev]

Thanks for the thumbs up.
Jay, have you watched the timing video I posted?

[TheAngryBear]

Just in case he hasn't and someone is following and needs it:


https://youtu.be/hdd6ZYsCGGg
https://youtu.be/Ul6K1eY2UI0

Edit: apparently my cut and paste skills need work. Took out superfluous stuff


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[Jay M.]

Thanks everyone for the insight. That is a great set of videos. After tightening everything down with the correct tools, I spun the crank numerous times by hand to feel if there were any collisions, and eyeballed the cam position in bank 1 that TDC was coming around in the right spot. However, I did not re-install the cam locks or impulse wheel tools to confirm timing, and I'm not positive I fully retarded both vanos sprockets. They were either fully retarded or advanced. The guide I was following said that you needed to have continuity through the VANOS unit, which I checked, but I don't recall if it specified that it needed to be in the counter clockwise orientation before tightening.

The errors say that the timing is too far advanced, which would make sense if I didn't retard the VANOS before tightening. I'll take a look at the drill bit test through the window... This would explain in part my garbage compression values even after bore wash treatment if I'm not getting full valve sealing.

[JimLev]

AngryBear, thanks for posting the links to my timing video.

Jay,
Putting the cam lock blocks and the trigger wheel jigs would have shown you that things didn't line up, can't really eyeball it.
The vanos needs to be turned CCW as far as it will go. You won't always get a continuity reading which isn't important, it just needs to be turned all the way CCW until it hits the stop.

[Jay M.]

I believe I have found the problem! My bank 1 intake timing slipped from the jigged position. Everything was installed in place with the correct torque spec and is tight, but without confirming the timing with the jigs after hand cranking things must have phased out of time before re-assembly.

IMG_2326.jpg

I was shocked how quickly I was able to excavate the valve cover the second time around... Hoping to be re-timed and back in business soon.

[geargrinder]

Bingo. Thought that might be the case. Definitely eyeball is useless. Even if you discard eyeball inaccuracy.... (if it was a hard timed engine with keyed sprockets so that everything can only be off by whole teeth denominations maybe that'd be 'close enough' but with the non splined/keyed BMW setup its infinitely adjustable so you really need to use the tools every time), you have no way of seeing inside the VANOS and knowing where in its travel it is. It's easy enough to just drop the blocks back down after a few 720 turns... I found at least twice I caught significant lash and readjustment when I retorqued the bolts... then did it a few more times just for good measure.

[JimLev]

I believe I have found the problem! My bank 1 intake timing slipped from the jigged position.

IMG_2326.jpg

Jay, if the pic of the cams is where they were when you aligned the trigger wheel, then your still gonna get a code.

[Jay M.]

Jay, if the pic of the cams is where they were when you aligned the trigger wheel, then your still gonna get a code.

This is a photo of the cams and trigger wheel in the wrong position. The crank is pinned at TDC in this photo - re-timing tonight with the tools and making sure to check it numerous times for slip.

[Mach540]

Soon you'll be going WHHEEEEEeeeeee.........!

maxresdefault.jpg

[Jay M.]

Just when I thought the light was at the end of the tunnel.

The startup problem was almost certainly a compression issue caused by valve gap due to the bank 1 VANOS cam not being timed in the retarded position. I must have had it fully advanced when I timed the car originally. Bank 2 was timed in the correct, retarded position. A dumb error on my part and 6 weeks of trying to track it down.

Spent all day today getting the car timed correctly and re-assembling.

I timed the car with the flywheel pinned, cams locked down, torque specs on the sprockets, VANOS fully retarded, ETC... checked it was correct by turning over by hand, installing lock blocks, confirming the impulse wheel pins lined up with the alignment features. I am nearly 100% confident the timing was done correctly based on all the information I have seen up to this point. Followed JimLev's video procedure.

Taking everything apart gave me a chance to try the double washer method on the valve cover so everything is sitting much happier now.

The good news it that the car starts. Every time, since I've checked. The problem is on the restart it goes straight into failsafe mode. When I clear the failsafe flag, it seems to run well enough, certainly much better than before I re-timed the engine.

What other options do I have for INPA error 33? Does swapping sensors work from bank to bank to check functionality? This car is driving me mad but my steady progress has kept me going this far. I just REALLY do not want to open up the engine again as just the thought of it is breaking my spirit.

[TheAngryBear]

Did you reset the throttle?

Edit: should be nevermind, thought 33 was throttle, isn't that camshaft?

Edit2: yes, swapping sensor should test the sensor if code follows.

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[JimLev]

33 is Bank 1 timing issue.
Hopefully you'll find it is the vanos solenoid not plugged in enough and not another trigger wheel problem.
Good luck.

[geargrinder]

Yep. Back to my previous note - easily the coolant coulda gotten in a sensor or solenoid connector and be still making trouble. More likely sensor I think though. Good luck man.

[Jay M.]

More troubleshooting today after some suggestions from an acquaintance of mine who is a tech at a BMW dealership.

• Removed VANOS solenoids and cleaned the passageways brake clean (Before you hassle me, this is as per procedure done at dealership by BMW tech) and with compressed air to remove any particulates
• Replaced ~6000mi used oil with new full synthetic
• Cleaned camshaft position sensor contacts with electric contact cleaner
• Cleaned VANOS solenoid connectors with electric contact cleaner

Started car a few times and error 33 on INPA, P0011 on code reader continue to appear. Then:

• Swapped cam position sensors between banks
• Measured resistance on VANOS solenoids, bank 1 reads ~17 ohm, bank 2 ~12 ohm.
• Swapped VANOS solenoids between banks

Same codes re appear and did not follow the sensors.

What else can cause these errors to appear? It looks probable I need to take everything apart a third time . Based on what I have read regarding these errors, some possible causes:

1. Sensors or solenoids are dirty / gone bad causing error (Ruled out today)
2. Trigger wheels are still not correct (Will need to pull VC and check, though assembly procedure was followed line by line and timing was confirmed before assembly)
3. VANOS seals in the phaser itself went bad / are clogged up (I did not change these when I did the timing)
4. Any other causes?

With a comprehensive list of possible causes I'm hoping the third time might be the charm if I address or rule out every potential cause while the covers are off. I didn't change the VANOS seals as the car was running just fine prior to starting the job other than the startup rattle. The tech I spoke with indicated that worn or dirty seals and even missed oil service can sometimes cause these VANOS timing errors to pop up if a small bit of dirt lodges itself in a passageway. I will probably replace the seals for good measure, but I'm looking for any other potential causes.

[geargrinder]

• Cleaned camshaft position sensor contacts with electric contact cleaner
• Cleaned VANOS solenoid connectors with electric contact cleaner

.

Dude I frikiin told you to do that repeatedly. it needed to be done immediately after the coolant.

Are you not actually trying the things we are suggesting? Cuz if so I'm happy to not waste my time.

[Jay M.]

Dude I frikiin told you to do that repeatedly. it needed to be done immediately after the coolant.

Are you not actually trying the things we are suggesting? Cuz if so I'm happy to not waste my time.

I cleaned these out with dental tools and contact cleaner after it was suggested the first time. I'm simply stating what I did today to document my thought process and rationale moving forward in the hopes of getting some insight.

[JimLev]

If the contact are clean then I wouldn't worry about the sensors.
Your timing is still screwed up.
When you redid bank 1 did you loosen the center cam bolt and then turn the center part of the vanos both ways and then end up holding it hard CCW while you tightened the cam bolt?
Was the bank 1 cam tensioner guide pulled to the center when you put the upper timing on when you did that last week? My video shows that, it is important to keep tension of the chain when you remove the tensioner block that was used during timing.

What cam tools were you using? Were they Gary's? If so you shouldn't need to worry about the cam lock blocks moving around and messing up the timing.

[Mach540]

How we doin' on this biatch??

[Jay M.]

I took a much needed mental health break while parts were on their way...Time to jump back in.

Replaced the VANOS seals and pressed the lips with the Beisan kit today. I don't think this is the issue but I'm in here a third time so I wanted to address everything I probably should have done the first time around.

JimLev pointed out what I suspect are both of my errors that are giving me this CEL. Opened everything up again and checked the timing, it seemed OK using the impulse wheels and everything lined up. So I must be ever so slightly off such that the car starts and runs fine but is unhappy electrically. The first issue is that I had a helper hold down the cam blocks while tightening and there is a chance they shifted. I'm replacing the human element with a clamp setup that uses the valve cover studs. This is the same idea as the clamp bar in JimLev's video, but avoids using M14-1.25 hardware which is a bit of a unicorn fastener size.

I will also simultaneously hold the VANOS CCW while tightening down the sprocket. This was done one after the other in my previous attempt.

I don't think the chain tension was my problem as I used the zip-tie trick to keep everything in place until the bolt-through tensioner was installed.

Hoping third time is a charm... Should have news in the next day or two.

[JimLev]

Use the wrench to hold the cam when you are torquing the center vanos bolt.

[geargrinder]

Yeah. Your helper should be counter-holding the cam, not the blocks really. If that person is half decent about it and watches the blocks like a hawk, then should be pretty hard to have it slip.