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Thread: E36 Roll Bar

  1. #1
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    E36 Roll Bar

    After wrecking my E36 M3 on track last year, I have finally gotten my new build up and running. I'm looking to get out on track for a few easy days this year to shake down the build. Ultimately, I want to put in a full cage. What should I do in the interim to get the car on track for 6/10 driving? Is a harness bar a bad idea for 1-2 events?

    Anyone have a used sedan 4 point bar (Kirk) for sale in the NJ area? I've checked everywhere (banjo, eBay, craigslist).

    The full cage will be a winter build project.

  2. #2
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    depending on the safety requirements for the event. If roll bar is optional, I'd just pick up a harness bar for now until the full cage done. I am more of a do it once person... a few things to consider:

    1. Harness bar is cheaper than a 4pt bolt in cage, however, it will be harder to sell when you're done with it. It will sell eventually but might sit for awhile. Best to pick up a used harness bar!

    2. Even if there is bolt in cage available at the moment for you to purchase, your car will have extra holes when the bolt in cage is removed. At least 12 holes for kirk 4 pt cage.

    3. Look for an alternative way to secure your harness rather than purchasing a harness bar and just wait until winter for the cage.


    My personal option will be #3 because I don't wanna have extra holes on my car or doing the same work multiple times (install cage, remove cage, and then weld in cage). Hope this helps!

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    What part of Jersey are you in? I'm in Marlton, also with an e36 sedan track build. Are you doing 11/4 and 11/5 at thunderbolt? Sorry I'm no help on the bar but even if you buy it new you should be able to get 70-80% of the value if you sell it with only 2 days used. ...or you could just use the seat belts.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigchallah View Post
    What part of Jersey are you in? I'm in Marlton, also with an e36 sedan track build. Are you doing 11/4 and 11/5 at thunderbolt? Sorry I'm no help on the bar but even if you buy it new you should be able to get 70-80% of the value if you sell it with only 2 days used. ...or you could just use the seat belts.
    I'm located in Morristown. Wrecked at Tbolt last year (stupid crash going pretty slow - possibly hit some oil). I stupidly sold my Kirk last year since I was not sure how much of my car was salvageable and I wanted the cash (turns out a lot made it into the new car).

    Right now not signed up for anything since I had an ECU chip problem that prevented the car from starting after a ground-up rebuild/engine swap. After testing every lead/relay on the car and the wiring, turns out it was a bad/wrong ECU tune (OBD1). Desperately hoping to get on track this year though...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks for the advice. Not a huge fan of the harness bar to be honest for the reasons you mentioned. I am going to take a look at the scroth quick fit and see if that will work in the interim.

  5. #5
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    Have your cage builder put in the back half now and build off of it to make the full cage this winter.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCRentAPopo View Post
    Have your cage builder put in the back half now and build off of it to make the full cage this winter.
    Isn't this impossible? I've always read that you can't upgrade a half cage to a full cage later because you can't properly weld the upper bars.

  7. #7
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    I know cage builders do it all the time -- and very reputable ones at that. I considered doing a half then full cage with my build and I corresponded with several of the big-name DC area cage builders about it. All confirmed that they could build me a half cage and then build a full cage off of it. I'm not certain, but I think that they remove the plinth boxes at the base of the main hoop, lower it down a couple inches, weld everything up top, then re-fab the plinth boxes.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tripitz View Post
    After wrecking my E36 M3 on track last year, I have finally gotten my new build up and running. I'm looking to get out on track for a few easy days this year to shake down the build. Ultimately, I want to put in a full cage. What should I do in the interim to get the car on track for 6/10 driving? Is a harness bar a bad idea for 1-2 events?

    Anyone have a used sedan 4 point bar (Kirk) for sale in the NJ area? I've checked everywhere (banjo, eBay, craigslist).

    The full cage will be a winter build project.
    Still have the stock seats? Can always put in some used quick fits and the stock seats.

  9. #9
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    Thanks for all of the recommendations! I thought about using quick fits and stock seats. Ultimately, with all of the other things to buy still (e.g., another seat, harnesses, suit, fire gear, etc.) I may take the full cage install slower than originally planned. I need a bit of time to get back into driving and focus on making the car solid and rebuilding my driving skills and confidence. Since I want the most safety given my time constraints, I've decided to get another Kirk bar and pass on the alternative methods (e.g., it's not that expensive, worked for me in the past, and is easy to sell). It turns out Kirk can get me a bar in time for a few events, and given the easy resale ability, I'm just going to put it in the car. I do not care about a few extra holes... it's going to be a race car at the end of the day and it will never go back to being the ratty street car that I started with (started life as a 325i). I cannot wait to get back on track!

  10. #10
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    Small world...I wrecked on Tbolt in March (mine was high speed though, harshly avoiding going wide on track out just prior to the straight led to me spinning and finding the wall at pit row) and bought a former 325i sedan converted to an M3 also. I have an incredible coach helping me get my confidence and speed back. If you make it to 11/4 and 11/5 he will be there, if you aren't running in intermediate, he might be able to take on another driver for the day. If you're interested let me know.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigchallah View Post
    Small world...I wrecked on Tbolt in March (mine was high speed though, harshly avoiding going wide on track out just prior to the straight led to me spinning and finding the wall at pit row) and bought a former 325i sedan converted to an M3 also. I have an incredible coach helping me get my confidence and speed back. If you make it to 11/4 and 11/5 he will be there, if you aren't running in intermediate, he might be able to take on another driver for the day. If you're interested let me know.
    Sorry to hear about your incident! Did you hit the concrete wall or the barrier? I hit the concrete; I was going slowly (about 70) and was well clear of the turn, going straight when it happened. I was off line since I was going so slowly behind a long train of cars and wanted to see what was up ahead, when the car suddenly started to kick to the right. Stupidly left traction control on and it wouldn't let me get the weight back to regain grip. Stupid stupid stupid incident; no clue why it kicked the other direction other than that it was wet-ish and/or some slick substance on my tires. For reference, I was easily running 90+ at that spot in full rain on street tires and not even close to the limits of traction.

    My car still needs a bit of work so I'm being cautious about signing up for events until I know it's good to go. I will definitely check out that event and see if I can make it. I've been off the track since June of last year! It took me a while to part out a car I had just put together, deal with the financial loss, and find a new chassis. This was also my first engine out, full swap, and my 325i had tons of issues that need correction (e.g., shock tower repair, brake line repairs, etc.).

  12. #12
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    Concrete wall. I hit the last turn at 112, prob a few miles/hour faster than ever before. That track out is sketchy if you go wide because of narrow curbing and the grass/wall combo so I over corrected to avoid the grass and I wasn't smooth enough. Went past the line of grip in a rear engine car (911) and spun as I entered the straightaway, screamed backwards until I found that concrete wall at pit row. I've been told repeatedly that is a common accident on Tbolt, the year they opened a NASCAR guy had his car cut in half from the exact same thing. I got super lucky and walked away.

  13. #13
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    Harness bars are the devil. Either go with a back half or stay with the stock seats.
    '03 911 Turbo 6MT fun car
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWyte View Post
    Harness bars are the devil. Either go with a back half or stay with the stock seats.
    A bad harness bar is the devil. A good one has been crash tested to NHTSA, DOT, and SAE and can be had new for $500. There are some in between these two points and that's the problem.

    Not that I use a harness bar. Hell I can get a bender for $500.
    If God meant for man to motor-swap LS engines into track cars, He wouldn't have created Corvettes.

  15. #15
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    $500 buys you a proper rollbar.
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  16. #16
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    Do not use a harness bar if you have any sense of self preservation.



  17. #17
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    Some sanctioning bodies will not allow a harness bar. Check yours to be sure.

    Pretty sure it was Scott Pruett was the one who hit the end of the (then) pit wall in Thursday practice. Broke the car in half. It was a DP car with the Rolex series. I was there. Not pretty. They moved the guardrail down closer to the bridge after that but there are still a lot of incidents at that part of the track, usually wide under the bridge, two wheels off, then a spin to the inside wall.
    Last edited by emoore924; 09-22-2017 at 10:03 PM.

  18. #18
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    I would skip the kirk bar. When your ready add cage, race seat, 6pt harness and use a Hans or Necksgen restraint. (all of those together!) Better off driving stock 6/10 and working on craft then adding a incomplete system with a false sense of safety.

  19. #19
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    I've got the Kirk Bar on order. Should be here in 3 weeks. Ruled out the harness bar; the good ones are as expensive as the roll bar and do not offer the same protection. I have a ton of other safety stuff to buy too, so I'm going to get those before I put the full cage in. The money isn't going into "go faster" mods; just making the car safer and some personal safety items (e.g., suit, fire safety, battery cut off, new harnesses, new seat). I'll do a couple of easy events and sell the roll bar. I lost 15 months; I can lose 4-6 weeks next year during the season to finish the cage when I'm ready.

    It's been a long journey to get to this point again.
    Last edited by tripitz; 09-24-2017 at 08:14 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWyte View Post
    $500 buys you a proper rollbar.
    Indeed. And keep that helmet handy for the drive to the track.
    If God meant for man to motor-swap LS engines into track cars, He wouldn't have created Corvettes.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBasham View Post
    Indeed. And keep that helmet handy for the drive to the track.

    He's probably better off padding the roll bar anywhere that his head could make contact with it.

  22. #22
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    Use SFI padding....
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  23. #23
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    DocWhite, you like the SFI padding for protecting an unhelmeted head if it hits a roll bar in a crash? Because that's not much more protection than a plastic Jesus on the dashboard.
    If God meant for man to motor-swap LS engines into track cars, He wouldn't have created Corvettes.

  24. #24
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    I drive my fully caged E36 to and from events without a helmet -- sometimes over 5 hours each way. I will accept forum flaming, now.
    Last edited by OCRentAPopo; 09-26-2017 at 11:33 AM.

  25. #25
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    It's way better than using a pool noodle!

    A good rollbar will be paired with fixed back seats and have the main hoop in a place where the occupants heads won't hit it. I'm nowhere close to the TC Kline bar in mine for instance.

    There's an intrinsic compromise here in any street driven car with a rollbar, you just can't get around it, all you can do is the best you can....
    '03 911 Turbo 6MT fun car
    '18 Toyota Land Cruiser Daily driver/Ski Machine/Off Roader
    '15 Cayenne Diesel Wife's DD
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