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Thread: Recommendation on system to add Bluetooth functionality to existing OEM audio system

  1. #1
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    Recommendation on system to add Bluetooth functionality to existing OEM audio system

    Seeking recommendations on how to add a cost-effective yet highly reliable system to incorporate Bluetooth functionality to my existing OEM premium audio system. Intent is to play music from my phone as well as hands free phone operation via pairing my phone with the system.

    Opposed to opting for the Dynavin system as I just recently invested in installing a new OEM head unit.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    IIRC Grom make a unit that plugs in to the CD stacker and interfaces through that?

    Absinthe makes the tart grow fonder

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by StRaNgEdAyS View Post
    IIRC Grom make a unit that plugs in to the CD stacker and interfaces through that?

    Absinthe makes the tart grow fonder
    The GROM-style units (Dice, etc) are all infamously troublesome, unfortunately.

    ~~~

    I would like to do the same; retrofit Bluetooth streaming (aka A2DP) and Bluetooth telephone features (factory nav/steering wheel integration) that would interface directly with my existing DSP/Mk4. BMW's OEM Bluetooth solutions from the E39/E83-era (like those available from Bimmernav.com) are known as the "TCU" and "ULF" systems. Both utilize the E39's factory telephone pre-wiring (equipped in all US-spec E39s, IIRC) via an adapter. These modules are relatively basic, supporting the Bluetooth "HFP" (hands-free profile) standard, but not much else.

    Unfortunately, neither the TCU or ULF modules support the A2DP standard; BMWs didn't even support it until halfway through the 2011 model year:
    Screen Shot 2017-09-19 at 12.43.39 AM.png

    Using these modules for A2DP is not really practical, especially on iPhones, which would require jailbreaking:
    Screen Shot 2017-09-11 at 3.40.23 PM.png


    Sooo, all that to say: BMW added A2DP support right around 2011, which was also the time of the demise of the E83 X3. The E83 X3 is the reason that we can add Bluetooth in the first place; it is also the reason that we can get maps from 2012 for the Mk4. Unfortunately, the X3 was replaced in 2011. When BMW added A2DP support, it also added AVRCP, which allows for display of album artwork/track names/etc and device control.

    I think the only reasonable expectation would be HFP support. A2DP would be neat to have; AVRCP nearly impossible, I think. It may require a completely custom logic board in the BMW Bluetooth module.
    Nate J.

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  4. #4
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    So, here's what that means:

    You can get your BMW to support the HFP Bluetooth standard with factory equipment. That will enable your phone to connect to the car and use its microphone and speakers as you would expect.

    However, A2DP Bluetooth streaming and AVRCP are not available in any factory supported capacity.

    A2DP streaming can be added with any number of aftermarket adapters. These work by connecting a small Bluetooth receiver to an auxiliary input. Of course, that requires that your BMW has an auxiliary input. To get an auxiliary input, you will need a C53 or modern BM53 (nav-equipped cars) radio, and BMWs auxiliary input kit. E39Source.com has an excellent and easy to digest article about adding auxiliary (and Sirius XM).

    Now, in theory, you should be able to have your smartphone connected to the BMWs HFP system and the aftermarket A2DP-aux-in dongle at the same time. When a call comes in, the phone should in theory pause the music/audio from the A2DP stream and switch to the HFP device. I have not tried this myself.

    I will be installing a newer BM53 radio into my 10/2001 530i5 in the near future. I will likely run an auxiliary cable up through the interior and connect it to a Bluetooth A2DP receiver in the glovebox. I will try to use the flashlight socket as a power source. I may also try to retrofit the BMW ULF Bluetooth system. That may take more time, as information is harder to come by and parts are rarer and more expensive.

    Hopefully, this makes some semblance of sense. Please don't hesitate to ask if you have further questions.
    Nate J.

    (oOO\ (|||)º(|||) /OOo)
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    Alpineweiss III/Black Merino Full 03-26-2007 E60 M5 Manual (CX08265). 157,000+. Dead starter -_-

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    Take 2 "Otto" - Toledo Blue/Sandbeige 04-25-2002 530iA Sport (CH98032). Sold 11-10-2017 at 147,743mi.
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  5. #5
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    I have the Grom BT on my factory DSP system. It works good for phone calls and streaming.
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  6. #6
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    I used a factory BT ULF for phone calls and an iPod integration with a BT adaptor plugged in it for audio streaming and control.

    Everything worked great for years through ice cream sandwich (Android version for those who don't know), when jellybean came along I start have minor connection(sometimes dropped) issues with my old BMW BT ULF and by kitkat it got bad enough you could hardly use it for calls. Lollipop on it's worthless but getting a newer ULF module would supposedly fix this, since I could never find any newer ones without having to pay $600 I never bothered upgrading mine and just decided to go with an aftermarket head unit that does Android auto, car play and screen mirror/HDMI input.

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6spd540 View Post
    I used a factory BT ULF for phone calls and an iPod integration with a BT adaptor plugged in it for audio streaming and control.

    Everything worked great for years through ice cream sandwich (Android version for those who don't know), when jellybean came along I start have minor connection(sometimes dropped) issues with my old BMW BT ULF and by kitkat it got bad enough you could hardly use it for calls. Lollipop on it's worthless but getting a newer ULF module would supposedly fix this, since I could never find any newer ones without having to pay $600 I never bothered upgrading mine and just decided to go with an aftermarket head unit that does Android auto, car play and screen mirror/HDMI input.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    Long shot; do you remember the part number of the ULF module?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by philly98540 View Post
    I have the Grom BT on my factory DSP system. It works good for phone calls and streaming.
    Do the GROM units work with nav cars? Steering wheel controls?
    Nate J.

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by computiNATEor View Post
    Do the GROM units work with nav cars? Steering wheel controls?
    Not sure about Nav cars. The steering wheel controls work on my car.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by computiNATEor View Post
    Long shot; do you remember the part number of the ULF module?
    I still have all of my BMW stuff(both DSP/Navigation and standard/mid). I'm a bit busy today but I'll try to get the part number off mine. If that bimmer nav site is still around it's easy to find it on there(last time I looked they were still selling the newer modules that tend to work better with newer phones).



    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6spd540 View Post
    I still have all of my BMW stuff(both DSP/Navigation and standard/mid). I'm a bit busy today but I'll try to get the part number off mine. If that bimmer nav site is still around it's easy to find it on there(last time I looked they were still selling the newer modules that tend to work better with newer phones).
    Here is the list directly from Bimmernav

    84 21 6 934 552 end of life 06/03 1st generation
    84 21 6 938 610 end of life 10/03 2nd generation
    84 21 6 934 961 end of life 03/04 3rd generation
    84 21 6 950 089 end of life 06/04 4th generation
    84 21 6 945 387 end of life 01/05 5th generation
    84 10 6 955 522 end of life 10/05 6th generation
    84 10 6 969 268 end of life 04/06 7th generation
    84 21 6 958 358 end of life 05/06 8th generation
    84 10 6 987 546 end of life 9/06 9th generation
    84 10 6 980 130 end of life 11/06 10th generation
    84 10 9 133 329 end of life 01/07 11th generation
    84 10 9 145 007 end of life 05/07 12th generation
    84 10 9 154 358 current production 13th generation

    Gen 1 to 6 units are easily available on ebay for around $200-300 but are pretty much useless for connecting to current android phones.

    The issue I have is that even the 13th Gen unit will no longer connect to my Samsung Note 5 or Motorola Razr HD phones with the latest updates via Bluetooth so these are now basically useless. Or at least that is my personal experience.

    I cannot speak to iPhone connectivity as i do not own one but i suspect they would have similar connection problems as android phones do.

    And aftermarket units (Gromm, Media Bridge etc) connect to the AUX or CD inputs and then you have to change to that input to get a call thru. So if you are listening to the radio then you have to switch to the Aux/CD to be able to hear/talk the call thru the car. In my mind that is kind of irritating.

    It is unfortunate that the phone manufacturers do not make their Bluetooth software backwards compatible to the beginning of time. That would be the best option.
    2003 525iT Automatic, Topas Blue Exterior, Gray Leather Interior, Sports Suspension, Sports Seats, M 3 spoke Steering Wheel.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by schatzy62 View Post
    The issue I have is that even the 13th Gen unit will no longer connect to my Samsung Note 5 or Motorola Razr HD phones with the latest updates via Bluetooth so these are now basically useless. Or at least that is my personal experience.

    I cannot speak to iPhone connectivity as i do not own one but i suspect they would have similar connection problems as android phones do.

    And aftermarket units (Gromm, Media Bridge etc) connect to the AUX or CD inputs and then you have to change to that input to get a call thru. So if you are listening to the radio then you have to switch to the Aux/CD to be able to hear/talk the call thru the car. In my mind that is kind of irritating.

    It is unfortunate that the phone manufacturers do not make their Bluetooth software backwards compatible to the beginning of time. That would be the best option.
    Hmm, I wonder if that could be because of the recent-ish switch to Bluetooth 4.0 LE.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 6spd540 View Post
    I still have all of my BMW stuff(both DSP/Navigation and standard/mid). I'm a bit busy today but I'll try to get the part number off mine. If that bimmer nav site is still around it's easy to find it on there(last time I looked they were still selling the newer modules that tend to work better with newer phones).
    That would be great, thanks.
    Nate J.

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  12. #12
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    With Android devices I found it has a lot to do with which BT stack you run.

    I usually run custom ROMs and found that some of the different BT stacks have issues some devices while others don't. IIRC when I ram CM ROMs it worked better on my BMW ULF but was still mostly worthless and the qualcomm stack is totally worthless.

    Since schatzy62 experience isn't good even with the newest module you may not even want to both unless you test one first. Aside from the price of a new ULF, the fact that I didn't have faith it would continue to work is also why I decided to move on to other options.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

  13. #13
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    I use iOS exclusively, so maybe they will still work for me. Honestly might buy parts and give it a go. I've sent some PMs out to folks on Bimmerfest who I know run both a TCU and 13th-gen ULF; we'll see once I hear back from them.
    Nate J.

    (oOO\ (|||)º(|||) /OOo)
    Titanium Silver/Black Nappa Full 07-18-2001 E39 M5 Heritage (BZ99672). 198,000mi+. Increasing daily. Engine rebuild thread.
    (eŌō\ (||||)º(||||) / ōŌe)
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    Take 2 "Otto" - Toledo Blue/Sandbeige 04-25-2002 530iA Sport (CH98032). Sold 11-10-2017 at 147,743mi.
    Take 3 "Manuel" - Toledo Blue/Grau 10-29-2001 530i5 Sport (CE92358). Sold 02-01-2019 at 217,600mi. I regret that. Build Log
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  14. #14
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    I have a 5th gen ULF and I have never had an issue connecting with every phone I have owned since 2005 (Motorola, Blackberry, Nokia, IPhone). I have owned a succession of Iphones the past 5 years, currently a 6. If there are Bluetooth connection issues with newer phones, perhaps that is why bimmernav sells the TCU kits now? Why not call or email him for advice?
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by f355spider View Post
    I have a 5th gen ULF and I have never had an issue connecting with every phone I have owned since 2005 (Motorola, Blackberry, Nokia, IPhone). I have owned a succession of Iphones the past 5 years, currently a 6. If there are Bluetooth connection issues with newer phones, perhaps that is why bimmernav sells the TCU kits now? Why not call or email him for advice?
    Thank you for your feedback.

    I don't want to waste his time; I likely won't be buying anything from them.
    Nate J.

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    Take 2 "Otto" - Toledo Blue/Sandbeige 04-25-2002 530iA Sport (CH98032). Sold 11-10-2017 at 147,743mi.
    Take 3 "Manuel" - Toledo Blue/Grau 10-29-2001 530i5 Sport (CE92358). Sold 02-01-2019 at 217,600mi. I regret that. Build Log
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by f355spider View Post
    I have a 5th gen ULF and I have never had an issue connecting with every phone I have owned since 2005 (Motorola, Blackberry, Nokia, IPhone). I have owned a succession of Iphones the past 5 years, currently a 6. If there are Bluetooth connection issues with newer phones, perhaps that is why bimmernav sells the TCU kits now? Why not call or email him for advice?
    And see that is where there are differences between iPhone and Android. 5 years ago my androids worked with the Gen 13. And each time i have upgraded phone and had android updates things have just gotten worse.

    Anyone out there have a iPhone 7 connected to a ULF???
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by computiNATEor View Post
    I use iOS exclusively, so maybe they will still work for me. Honestly might buy parts and give it a go. I've sent some PMs out to folks on Bimmerfest who I know run both a TCU and 13th-gen ULF; we'll see once I hear back from them.
    I got myself a full kit for future use (4th gen) and a 4th gen in my X5, both work fine with my 5S.
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  18. #18
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    All, thanks for the thorough replies. It appears there is hope.

    I run a iPhone 6 currently and it sounds like IOS seems to work without issue.

    Can someone clarify. If I get the 13 Gen ULF kit will I be able to receive and make calls via Bluetooth AS WELL AS stream music from my phone? Or just the phone calls and I would need a GROM type device for music?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuickSilver39 View Post
    All, thanks for the thorough replies. It appears there is hope.

    I run a iPhone 6 currently and it sounds like IOS seems to work without issue.

    Can someone clarify. If I get the 13 Gen ULF kit will I be able to receive and make calls via Bluetooth AS WELL AS stream music from my phone? Or just the phone calls and I would need a GROM type device for music?
    The ULF kit will enable Bluetooth phone calls. You will need an aftermarket solution to stream music. I would recommend a factory aux-in with an aftermarket bluetooth adapter. That should work together.
    Nate J.

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    Titanium Silver/Black Nappa Full 07-18-2001 E39 M5 Heritage (BZ99672). 198,000mi+. Increasing daily. Engine rebuild thread.
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    Take 2 "Otto" - Toledo Blue/Sandbeige 04-25-2002 530iA Sport (CH98032). Sold 11-10-2017 at 147,743mi.
    Take 3 "Manuel" - Toledo Blue/Grau 10-29-2001 530i5 Sport (CE92358). Sold 02-01-2019 at 217,600mi. I regret that. Build Log
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  20. #20
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    I have a pre c53 radio with dsp. I installed an audiovox dsp analog to digital adapter to get an aux input. It runs on the CD changer input and I just leave a disc playing in the changer, while audio comes from the aux input. From there, I bought a soundbot sb360 Bluetooth receiver for about $20 on Amazon that is hardwired in to the aux input. All wiring is buried in the center console, and I pulled an ignition power source from the phone wiring system.

    I made a little cover plate out of 1/4" luan for the ash tray where the Bluetooth unit lives. Easy access, looks clean, good mic pickup, easy to switch tracks, and can close it to hide it.

    Sound quality is very good, music/phone calls work perfectly. I can switch tracks from the phone or the Bluetooth unit, as well as answer calls from either. The only thing I'm lacking is steering wheel controls and track display on the mid. They other problem is that this particular unit will NOT auto connect to my Galaxy s6. Meh, it was cheap...

    I have another soundbot speaker that Auto connects great every time so I may try another brand or newer version of this one eventually.
    Last edited by jrcook320; 09-20-2017 at 08:15 PM.

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  21. #21
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    I am currently using an iPhone 7 with a tcu with no connection problems. I Just use the aux input to play music.

  22. #22
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    I have the GROM and I like it. I don't use the bluetooth part of it, I have it connected with AUX cable

  23. #23
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    The first gen ULF in my 530i works just fine with my iPhone 6 running IOS 10.3.3. Make/receive phone calls only.

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