Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 110

Thread: BrokeNeck autocross turbo build

  1. #76
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, Ca
    Posts
    64
    My Cars
    1997 BMW 328i
    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post
    Have you tried adding 1-2 gallons of e85 to a tank of 91 yet? It will make a huge difference. Your AFRs may have to be richened up a bit so do some testing.
    Yeah I might try that,

    Currently I am getting knock at full boost around 3600-4600 rpm with intake temps not being much higher than ambient (around 75 F) and I am still getting knock with my AFRs down at 10.9-11.1 and 5 degrees of ignition timing in that area.

    The reason I was under the impression it was octane related is that I put octane booster in the other day and the knock was drastically reduced and I could up the timing to around 10 to 11 which was much more reasonable.

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    58
    My Cars
    E36 2JZ
    Edit: What compression are you running? I normally add 3 or 4 gallons of E85 to a 15 gallon tank (12 pump). It doesn't completely ruin your tune unless it's super cold out and will really help your engine with less detonation below 4000rpm. Above 4000 you shouldn't run into much knock at all unless you're running too much boost

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, Ca
    Posts
    64
    My Cars
    1997 BMW 328i
    Quote Originally Posted by JOutterbridge View Post
    Edit: What compression are you running? I normally add 3 or 4 gallons of E85 to a 15 gallon tank (12 pump). It doesn't completely ruin your tune unless it's super cold out and will really help your engine with less detonation below 4000rpm. Above 4000 you shouldn't run into much knock at all unless you're running too much boost
    Im on stock 10.2:1 compression. Yeah I have no knock below 4000 rpm its all up at the top end and I do have a little bit of boost creep at like 6000 rpm but I dont have any knock at that point.

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,085
    My Cars
    97' 328is, 07' Titan
    You sure it's knock and not the spark blowing out? What plugs do you have? I had ignition breaking up on mine until I changed the plugs and gapped them.
    1997 328is - Megasquirt PNP, Holset HX35, Deka 80lb injectors, SPA T3, Precision PW39 WG, Synapse Synchronic BOV, DKM Organic Twin Disc Clutch, Innovate LC-2 W/B, Mishimoto Intercooler, Mishimoto Catch Can, Mishimoto Rad, Devils Own Meth, Porsche 911 calipers with E46 M3 rotors, Corsa Exhaust

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C., Canada
    Posts
    7,915
    My Cars
    '97 M3
    10.1:1 compression on 91 will not allow you to run much boost without detonation. If you are just using the car for racing you should ditch the 91 and run straight e85 in it.

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    58
    My Cars
    E36 2JZ
    Yeah you're compression is too high for such a small turbo and turbine AR. You'll need to either lower CR, get a larger turbine housing or turbo, or run strictly an E85 tune. New spark plugs in the correct heat range would help but you can't completely overcome the stock 10.2 CR. Currently you have a set up that's super responsive but creates heat in your intake without even flowing much air. That's why it'll stick knock on a 70 degree day. Sorry for the bad news bud

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,085
    My Cars
    97' 328is, 07' Titan
    10.2 isn't even high... 91 octane is annoying but 7 PSI shouldn't be too big of a deal.
    1997 328is - Megasquirt PNP, Holset HX35, Deka 80lb injectors, SPA T3, Precision PW39 WG, Synapse Synchronic BOV, DKM Organic Twin Disc Clutch, Innovate LC-2 W/B, Mishimoto Intercooler, Mishimoto Catch Can, Mishimoto Rad, Devils Own Meth, Porsche 911 calipers with E46 M3 rotors, Corsa Exhaust

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, Ca
    Posts
    64
    My Cars
    1997 BMW 328i
    Quote Originally Posted by somebody5788 View Post
    You sure it's knock and not the spark blowing out? What plugs do you have? I had ignition breaking up on mine until I changed the plugs and gapped them.
    These are the plugs I am using https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/ng...park+plug,7212 they are 7s which should be fine and I gap them down to .024. I have 24 of them to help with tuning.

    Im fairly certain that its knock because it shows on the knock adaptations, I can hear it through the det can headphones I made (although it doesnt sound like very much), and I can see it on the spark plug porcelain for the last set I pulled, its nothing too bad but it definitely shows some specs.

    It hasnt been breaking up like with misfires, the only reason I notice is from the adaptations.

    My main thing is that I want to make sure I dont have a mechanical problem before I go and pop in e85 and have some real fun high timing, high boost, ooo soo good. I told myself I wouldnt bite in to the craving...
    Although Ill probably be limited by my clutch since I bought a stage 3 kit and then wimped out a few seconds after I got it and swapped for a stage 2. (off topic)

    The only thing I could think of that may be doing something is the vanos system?, I notice some pretty loud rattle from the front of the valve cover between about 1500 and 2000 rpm but then it goes away so maybe its the timing chain from when I did the cams? The car isnt acting like its way off timing or anything, I mean Ive driven it probably 1500 miles since I turboed it and havent had a valve hit a piston yet. Maybe I messed up tensioning the timing chain?

    If this is all just octane related though I have no qualms in e85 + boost.

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,085
    My Cars
    97' 328is, 07' Titan
    E85 will lean it out heavily and could actually cause detonation since he's not tuned for it. I would gap the plugs to .022 like the majority of people are (when I researched it) Octane booster is a waste of time.
    1997 328is - Megasquirt PNP, Holset HX35, Deka 80lb injectors, SPA T3, Precision PW39 WG, Synapse Synchronic BOV, DKM Organic Twin Disc Clutch, Innovate LC-2 W/B, Mishimoto Intercooler, Mishimoto Catch Can, Mishimoto Rad, Devils Own Meth, Porsche 911 calipers with E46 M3 rotors, Corsa Exhaust

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, Ca
    Posts
    64
    My Cars
    1997 BMW 328i
    Quote Originally Posted by somebody5788 View Post
    E85 will lean it out heavily and could actually cause detonation since he's not tuned for it. I would gap the plugs to .022 like the majority of people are (when I researched it) Octane booster is a waste of time.
    No worries of leaning out, im constantly changing the tune and now have the afrs pretty good on e85 after filling up with it last night. The weird part is that I'm still getting this knock retard in my adaptation tables even with e85 and it all seems to be of similar magnitude to what it was before. At this point I am kinda thinking that it must just be something else causing it because its in the exact same places too and it doesnt really seem to get better or worse when I mess around with the timing.

    I think I am just going to stop putting so much trust in the adaptations and tune more based on the plugs and my headphones.
    The knock adaptations are showing 6 degrees of knock retard in some places and my spark plugs show no trace so we will see, ill just take it slow and try and figure it out.
    If all else I do have my other engine I could try.

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Renton, Wa
    Posts
    5,138
    My Cars
    98 m3
    FYI 6 degrees is a ton. I run 30+ psi and have zero degrees.

    Be safe.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 Tiag/Dove M3 - sold
    1998 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 TiAg/Black - Current

    PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, Ca
    Posts
    64
    My Cars
    1997 BMW 328i
    Quote Originally Posted by vollosso View Post
    FYI 6 degrees is a ton. I run 30+ psi and have zero degrees.

    Be safe.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    6 degrees at max torque? Im at only 10 psi so i would think I would have quite a bit more timing than at 30

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Renton, Wa
    Posts
    5,138
    My Cars
    98 m3
    Quote Originally Posted by brokeneck View Post
    6 degrees at max torque? Im at only 10 psi so i would think I would have quite a bit more timing than at 30
    6 degrees retard

    I run much more than 6* timing at peak tq.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 Tiag/Dove M3 - sold
    1998 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 TiAg/Black - Current

    PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, Ca
    Posts
    64
    My Cars
    1997 BMW 328i
    Quote Originally Posted by vollosso View Post
    6 degrees retard

    I run much more than 6* timing at peak tq.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    oh okay gotcha, yeah I was like that seems low. But yeah 6 degrees retard in places but the thing is Iíve been playing with it now for awhile and it seems to be same places pretty much whatever I do to timing or afr. And the retard isnít even at max torque itís at about 4000-5000 rpm at loads lower than my max loads.

    the retard is almost the same amount even with around 10 degrees of timing at max torque on e85.

    maybe vavetrain noise from S52 cams or the few new lifters I put in?

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    DeWitt, Michigan
    Posts
    5,829
    My Cars
    '97 540i/6, '97 328i
    vollosso is probably running more timing at 30psi than you are at your boost level and he's having no knock retard. There's something funky going on. I suspect that if you tune from det cans and plugs, you'll find the knock retard is false (although you'll have to turn the knock retard function off in RR).

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, Ca
    Posts
    64
    My Cars
    1997 BMW 328i
    So update, still having the same issue.

    I swapped back to m52 cams, put in stock lifters, swapped my vanos, retimed it and still same issue in the same place. Although I did get rid of some vanos rattle I had which is at least a little satisfying.

    Basically at the moment Im just confused on what is causing the knock. Compression ratio shouldn't be an issue with e85 at 6 psi, I did a compression test the other day and it was 120 psi across the board dry and warm, which isnt good but i figured it was a somewhat good sign that it was about the same in every cylinder and I was using a harbor freight tester.

    I tried it with some oil in the cylinders and it didnt seem to change it much but I dont think i got much in so I may try again.
    Anyways, if I had any burnt valves I figured it would be much worse compression than that.

    Im fairly certain that my timing is very conservative according to what Ive read everywhere else, and it doesnt even seem to help much changing timing anyways.

    I have AFRs at about 12.3 in boost on e85.

    Still happening in the similar range 3000-4500 rpm.
    Spark plugs do show some detonation specs.

    Only thing I can really think of at this point is that oil is making it into the cylinders and igniting, but my car doesnt smoke at all and then it would be happening more all over I would think.

    Is there anyway it could be my turbo coolant drain going straight from my bottom mount to the block coolant drain hole? Seemed like a great short outlet from the turbo to there that would have a good thermal siphoning effect, but could it be putting a lot of heat into the coolant around the cylinders? Hottest Ive seen my coolant temps get is about 208 F

    At this point I figure I should just put in the spare engine, but it bugs me that I cant figure out whats causing this detonation.

    Anybody got any theories?

  17. #92
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    58
    My Cars
    E36 2JZ
    Did you try colder spark plugs? I had to go from a brk7 to an 8 when going to E from straight pump. The 7's ran too hot on my small turbo setup. In the winter it was ok but spring/summer was bad. Detonation isn't good. I did that and then started retesting. low timing and ramping it up to about 14* at max rpm. I tried safe first from 2000 rpm 1* then slowly ramped it up over a few safe pulls

  18. #93
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, Ca
    Posts
    64
    My Cars
    1997 BMW 328i
    Quote Originally Posted by JOutterbridge View Post
    Did you try colder spark plugs? I had to go from a brk7 to an 8 when going to E from straight pump. The 7's ran too hot on my small turbo setup. In the winter it was ok but spring/summer was bad. Detonation isn't good. I did that and then started retesting. low timing and ramping it up to about 14* at max rpm. I tried safe first from 2000 rpm 1* then slowly ramped it up over a few safe pulls
    Yeah I haven't tried colder than 7 yet. Shouldn't it burn colder and be less likely to knock on 7 then on pump gas though?

    The thing Im worried about with going with such low timing is my exhaust temps getting too high. Retarding it down to the point of it not knocking forces me to go down to around 2 degrees at say 4000 rpm at a boost pressure of about 4 or 5 psi where I can run much more normal timing above and below that point without any knock. Im not saying to choose knocking over low timing, but it just seems like something is wrong with the engine and not the tune because tweaking the tune doesn't seem to change much. Ill order some colder plugs though and see if that changes anything.


    knockadaptations1.jpg
    Last edited by brokeneck; 05-08-2018 at 11:34 PM.

  19. #94
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, Ca
    Posts
    64
    My Cars
    1997 BMW 328i
    Hey so its been awhile but Im back to tuning this thing, I should probably start making posts in the tuning forum instead, but this is more of a general issue.

    My knocking issue is still somewhat there although I have raised the timing up about 8 degrees in most everywhere where it there was knock adaptations and it has either remained unchanged or gotten better which again makes me think its some sort of mechanical noise. I have also switched engines and its still adapting in the same places.

    Now the engine has ARP studs, still stock compression running about 11 psi on e85, walbro 340, with about 14-15 degrees of timing at high load full boost (I can post a log too if wanted)

    The only issue Im having right now is that I am getting a bit of stumbling when I go full throttle and this was happening at high boost before I swapped engines as well, if feels like the car cuts out for a second and then picks right back up. I dont think its fuel pump because I can still make the car pig rich in boost and I swapped all the coils with different ones (not necessarily new) and that didnt fix it. So I was looking around and some people said replacing the fuel filter and possibly cleaning the injectors but my injectors are pretty new 60# so Im gunna try out a new fuel filter since its cheap,
    any other ideas?

    P.S. im still on heat range 7 plugs and need to try out 8s

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    DeWitt, Michigan
    Posts
    5,829
    My Cars
    '97 540i/6, '97 328i
    A log of the stumble that shows TPS, AFR, timing, and whatever load indicators you have would be very helpful. It still sounds like you are probably a bit too low on timing even for a very conservative tune, and maybe you are also too rich in the transition area.

    8s are not needed with E85 in that boost range (or twice that much). Not that it is likely the cause of the problem, but what is your plug gap?

  21. #96
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, Ca
    Posts
    64
    My Cars
    1997 BMW 328i
    Alright, I dont have AFR logged but I can get TPS, timing and load. Plug gap is about .024. AFRs are a bit too rich at the moment since I just upped the boost they are around 11.2-11.3 and im shooting for about 12.2 at full boost but I dont think its being too rich thats causing it because it was doing it even with AFRs a bit better. I dont see any lean spikes though while I am pulling that would make me think it was fuel.

  22. #97
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Renton, Wa
    Posts
    5,138
    My Cars
    98 m3
    Itís highly unlikely that it is mechanical noise picked up by those knock sensors. Take a deeper look at how the ecu handles knock and honestly dig deeper and try and understand the ecu further. Gauging by the last few posts, I think you are putting yourself at a large disadvantage by trying to tune without seeking deeper understanding of tuning and this ecu first.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 Tiag/Dove M3 - sold
    1998 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 TiAg/Black - Current

    PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  23. #98
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, Ca
    Posts
    64
    My Cars
    1997 BMW 328i
    Alright Iíll keep searching, I put the new fuel filter in and I also put my knock copper listening tube back on the block so hopefully I can do some listening in again.

    Dumb question but just checking to be sure, do I need to be running vacuum to the tube coming off the dipstick or vent it to atmosphere? Because right now I have it plugged. The CCV vent hole on the valve cover is vented to a catch can which I have pulling vacuum from the exhaust. I remember reading that I could plug that but want to make sure

    This is a log of the stumbling all loads are half of actual: Logfile
    Last edited by brokeneck; 09-10-2018 at 03:20 PM.

  24. #99
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, Ca
    Posts
    64
    My Cars
    1997 BMW 328i
    So I tried colder plugs, went to ngk 4554s and unfortunately didn't seem to change anything, still getting the same adaptations to the same severity. Also gapped them down to .021 now. I am at a loss for what it could be, Im thinking of trying to spray some water in to try and clean the carbon deposits on the pistons a bit, but that seems kind of like a stretch.
    Im going to play with timing some more again in that 4000-5000 rpm area and see what happens.

    I can hear it in my headphones too and the weird part is that I can hear it when its just past 4000rpm in neutral when there is barely any load on the engine. Ill keep looking.

    I think the stumbling was my fuel pump not being able to keep up with the e85 and 11psi so I bought an aeromotive 340lph stealth to try out, that should get here tomorrow.

  25. #100
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, BC Ca
    Posts
    2,990
    My Cars
    1993 325is
    Quote Originally Posted by brokeneck View Post
    I bought an aeromotive 340lph stealth to try out, that should get here tomorrow.
    Crap! I wish I'd known. I have one of those here that I won't be using!

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 93 318 turbo build starts.
    By KOOTER in forum Forced Induction
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: 01-23-2007, 08:26 AM
  2. My S38B36 Turbo Build Thread
    By MPD47 in forum Forced Induction
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 01-15-2007, 01:59 PM
  3. my DIY turbo build up has begun...stay tune!!!
    By e36widelip in forum Forced Induction
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: 10-13-2006, 04:12 AM
  4. Recommendations for turbo build
    By dustent in forum Forced Induction
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-13-2006, 01:30 PM
  5. I need a Crank pulley - for turbo build
    By turnerNCM3 in forum Forced Induction
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-27-2006, 06:33 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •