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Thread: BrokeNeck autocross turbo build

  1. #1
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    BrokeNeck autocross turbo build

    So I finally decided its time to do a turbo build on my 1997 328i w/ 135k miles. I have been wanting to do this for awhile now but I finally bought the parts and am hungry for boost. I have done a lot of reading on this and other forums, but I have by no means seen it all like all 156 pages of rajicase's build thread, so any and all help is appreciated. This is going to be my autocross car and my fun daily so hopefully I can make this a pretty reliable yet fun build.

    Bottom mount build

    Parts I have:
    Garrett GT3076R turbo with a .63 A/R housing
    Tial 38mm wastegate
    HKS SSQV Blow off valve
    Manual boost controller
    Oil pressure, aem wideband, and boost guage
    FX stage 2 clutch kit (using new pilot and release bearings from pelican parts)
    Walbro 255 fuel pump
    27X7X2.5 intercooler
    s52 camshafts
    ebay 2.5" intercooler piping
    M50 manifold
    Rallyroad motor mount arm

    Parts I need:
    SPA manifold**
    Oil lines, coolant lines, vacuum hose
    Exhaust Piping and muffler
    Tune (Most likely RK tunes package with 60# injectors and maf)
    Crankcase Evacuation kit

    **In regards to the SPA manifold I am having some issues, I ordered a T3 manifold from their website about 2 weeks ago and noticed that nothing was happening with it so I tried to contact them and apparently their email isn't accepting emails and when I call, it just goes straight to a pre-recorded message so I am kinda bummed about that. I have to try and cancel the order and buy it from Rallyroad or if anybody has one that they are willing to sell to me.


    My plan for this initial build is to run fairly low boost at around 8-9 psi with the stock compression or whatever I can do that is fairly safe. I plan to stay on pump gas, but I think all I have access to around where I live is 91 or at the most probably 92 somewhere, ill have to do some more looking. I have two m52 engines so while one is in the car I am going to try and rebuild the other so I can put it in later and increase the boost. I will be trying to do most if not all the welding myself. Trying to keep a/c if I can, but its not a huge deal breaker.

    I know the turbo is very small and the exhaust housing is even smaller, but I was going for a very responsive turbo so I figured I would see what this got me and then when I finish building the other engine I can upgrade the turbo. So I think I should be able to get around 330rwhp, correct me if I'm wrong.

    The main questions I have right now are:
    - What size restrictor fitting do i need to put on my turbo for the oil feed line? .035"?
    - How do I go about modifying the m3 front bumper to accommodate the intercooler?

    I'm probably forgetting stuff, but let me know what you think, advice, if you have any extra parts I could use, I'm open to it all. I can add pictures if wanted or if I get some good ones, looking forward to joining the boosted club. Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    BrokeNeck autocross turbo build

    I would check out other tuners :wink

    .035 is common for bb turbos

    The bumper reinforcement black aluminum needs to be clearanced on the horizontal parts..

    You'll need 3" piping on the cold side of the intercooler for virtually every tuner.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 Tiag/Dove M3 - sold
    1998 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 TiAg/Black - Current

    PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by vollosso View Post
    I would check out other tuners :wink
    +1

    Others as reliable,
    as accessible
    and better price.


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by vollosso View Post
    I would check out other tuners :wink

    .035 is common for bb turbos

    The bumper reinforcement black aluminum needs to be clearanced on the horizontal parts..

    You'll need 3" piping on the cold side of the intercooler for virtually every tuner.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Okay great, ill look for that fitting. why not rk tunes if you don't mind my asking and would TRM be a good alternative?
    I was doing some fitting yesterday for the intercooler and I saw what you mean about the black aluminum reinforcement and I think I can get that 3" piping on the cold side but where do I route the hot side piping of I'm trying to go around the ac compressor. It looked like it might be able to make it through between the sway bar and the steering rack off to the side of the ac. thank you for the help.

  5. #5
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    You either run the piping under the subframe/control arm or use some bends to get it around the a/c comp if going over subframe. A good amount of people going over subframe weld a 90 onto the turbo to make the transition towards the front of the car.

    you may need to move your horns on the cold side. There are many ways people configure the piping.
    Last edited by vr6dubny; 09-10-2017 at 02:07 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by brokeneck View Post
    Okay great, ill look for that fitting. why not rk tunes if you don't mind my asking and would TRM be a good alternative?
    I was doing some fitting yesterday for the intercooler and I saw what you mean about the black aluminum reinforcement and I think I can get that 3" piping on the cold side but where do I route the hot side piping of I'm trying to go around the ac compressor. It looked like it might be able to make it through between the sway bar and the steering rack off to the side of the ac. thank you for the help.

    This is the order in which I would recommend tuners. But that's just me...

    22RPD
    TECHNIQUE
    TRM
    TECHNICA
    RK

    I don't want to talk bad about Rk specifically but do your research and find people who have owned each.. maybe try to contact the tuner and see they they reply :wink


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 Tiag/Dove M3 - sold
    1998 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 TiAg/Black - Current

    PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  7. #7
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    TRM
    22RPD
    Technique Tuning
    Technica
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    Jim Conforti
    RK


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by milKt View Post
    TRM
    22RPD
    Technique Tuning
    Technica
    AA
    Jim Conforti
    Hakkynet
    RK
    Ftfy


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 Tiag/Dove M3 - sold
    1998 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 TiAg/Black - Current

    PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by vr6dubny View Post
    You either run the piping under the subframe/control arm or use some bends to get it around the a/c comp if going over subframe. A good amount of people going over subframe weld a 90 onto the turbo to make the transition towards the front of the car.

    you may need to move your horns on the cold side. There are many ways people configure the piping.
    Yeah I'm trying to keep it above the subframe because it would make me worried to have the piping as the lowest point in the front. I already have the horns removed and the cold side piping doesn't seem like it will be too bad. On the hot side I was looking at this route around the A/C, I think it should work, I checked it out with the wheel at full lock too and it should have space to pop through around the side of the sway bar and above the steering rack and then its a pretty straight shot to the intercooler.
    IMG_8210.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by vollosso View Post
    This is the order in which I would recommend tuners. But that's just me...

    22RPD
    TECHNIQUE
    TRM
    TECHNICA
    RK

    I don't want to talk bad about Rk specifically but do your research and find people who have owned each.. maybe try to contact the tuner and see they they reply :wink


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Okay Ill check them out, I have talked to RK and TRM before, Ill try contacting the others as well. Thanks

  10. #10
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tptrsn View Post
    No love for just using RomRaider and tuning the sucker yourself?
    That was my original plan, I have looked at RomRaider some but not too much. I decided to go with a company for the tune because I figured by the time I bought all the equipment and tuned it myself I would have spent more money than if I had just bought a good tune and I would have a mediocre if not poor tune. If you think that using RomRaider to teach myself is a viable option then I am all up for it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I also have that extra engine in case I blow one up.

  12. #12
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    I can't seem to compose a reasonable post on my phone, so I will reply to this on Thursday when I'm back at my computer. The RomRaider option is very doable.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tptrsn View Post
    I can't seem to compose a reasonable post on my phone, so I will reply to this on Thursday when I'm back at my computer. The RomRaider option is very doable.
    I'm eager to see it then, in the meantime I'll do my own searching and see what I can dig up. Thanks

  14. #14
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    Also about the engine, do I need a different exhaust manifold gasket with the SPA since it isn't separated like the old headers and is it a necessity to replace the studs and nuts for the manifold?
    Last edited by brokeneck; 09-12-2017 at 11:54 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by brokeneck View Post
    Also about the engine, do I need a different exhaust manifold gasket with the SPA since it isn't separated like the old headers and is it a necessity to replace the studs and nuts for the manifold?
    No you can use regular gaskets.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 Tiag/Dove M3 - sold
    1998 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 TiAg/Black - Current

    PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tptrsn View Post
    I can't seem to compose a reasonable post on my phone, so I will reply to this on Thursday when I'm back at my computer. The RomRaider option is very doable.
    I meant to reply to this earlier but I guess it didn't post it.
    I'm eager to see your post on Thursday and until then I'll try to do my own digging and figure it out, thanks.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by vollosso View Post
    No you can use regular gaskets.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Okay great, and are new manifold studs necessary?

  18. #18
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    Do I need a new fuel pressure regulator for the amount of boost I'm running with 60# injectors and a walbro 255 fuel pump?

  19. #19
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    Sorry I'm a day late!

    Anyway, RomRaider for MS41 DMEs is really well developed at this point, and makes it kind of a breeze to tune your own car. Or if you prefer, there are probably a lot of tuners out in the world who you could pay to tune your car for you, using RomRaider. It even has a very nice logger function, and with a little bit of hex code that is laid out pretty well in one of the threads, you can input your AFRs from your wideband's 0-5V analog output into one of your downstream O2 sensor signal wires so you can log that too. Pretty awesome stuff.

    The recent fly in the ointment though, is that the guy who wrote and sold the DME flashing software has recently passed away. The software was/is phenomenal, in that it corrects checksums and makes reading and flashing partial or full reads super easy and automated. Since he has passed, the software is not for sale from his website I guess, so you can't purchase it there.

    That leaves you with using Galletto for reading and flashing your tunes, and finding another solution for checksums, or maybe it's possible to use another person's purchased software until it might become available for sale again. I don't know. I do suspect though that there will be a solution to the problem pretty soon, since that flashing software was treated by the forum members as being necessary for use if you want any information from them.

    By the way, I'm running E85 through 80# injectors and stock 1997 fuel system with the DME on RomRaider, and it runs excellent, year round in Michigan. It's hard to beat.

    EDIT: I should say it's hard to beat on the cheap, and up to a certain level of performance. Certainly there are limits to its usefulness where a standalone becomes MUUUUCH better.
    Last edited by tptrsn; 09-15-2017 at 06:44 PM.

  20. #20
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    First off awesome information, I really appreciate the long and detailed post and if I could somehow do it I think it would be great cuz then I'll know how to do the tuning and I can always improve it if need be.
    I was looking at the romraider site and was wondering if the software downloadable for windows on their front page is not the software you are talking about or if the guy who passed aways software is separate from that. I luckily I already have the Galleto tool though from when I was planning on tuning the car myself, I just need the adapter to convert it from the obd2 port the 20 pin connector port in the engine bay.

    What does downloading the RomRaider 0.5.9 download give me and other than the ECU definitions, logger definitions, and car definitions they link to, what would I need to be able to tune it. Or is the software that is gone now one of those definitions. Again thank you for the detailed response, I will probably try downloading RomRaider and checking it out for the heck of it at the least.

  21. #21
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    The software to flash the tune into the DME is separate from the actual RomRaider software. It used to be $33 WELL SPENT, because it made the process so easy. It was at this link:

    https://chipster.no/Siemens-MS41-Flash-Tool

    As far as getting a good start on being able to use RomRaider for an M52/S52, here is a document that I wrote in hopes of easing a person into it:

    https://sites.google.com/site/openms...with-romraider

    It's still a lot of information, but I tried! Lol
    Last edited by tptrsn; 09-16-2017 at 08:42 AM.

  22. #22
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    Just a FYI, the turbo you chose is good for quick spool but the turbine match is horrible on low boost. I wouldn't expect over 300hp unless you have a larger AR or the gt35r. You'd need about 15psi to hit 330 hp. The higher boost you go the more efficient it will be for your setup

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOutterbridge View Post
    Just a FYI, the turbo you chose is good for quick spool but the turbine match is horrible on low boost. I wouldn't expect over 300hp unless you have a larger AR or the gt35r. You'd need about 15psi to hit 330 hp. The higher boost you go the more efficient it will be for your setup
    Oh okay, yeah I was a little worried about that, but I figured it would be okay, I guess not. I'm not too excited to try and sell mine and try and find another turbo although I have been reading about Borg Warner turbos like the s256sx but I figured something like that could be something to transition to in the future once I lowered compression. If people think that the turbo I have now would be very incapable on low boost then I'll probably change, but otherwise I'll probably just try and make it work for now. Thank you though, at least I won't be too let down if it doesn't get to 330 hp.

    Quote Originally Posted by tptrsn View Post
    The software to flash the tune into the DME is separate from the actual RomRaider software. It used to be $33 WELL SPENT, because it made the process so easy. It was at this link:

    https://chipster.no/Siemens-MS41-Flash-Tool

    As far as getting a good start on being able to use RomRaider for an M52/S52, here is a document that I wrote in hopes of easing a person into it:

    https://sites.google.com/site/openms...with-romraider

    It's still a lot of information, but I tried! Lol
    That was an awesome article and very informative, sucks that the software for flashing is gone though. I saw some other software out there like from flash.ecubin.com and I also found something at http://www.easysoft.pw/en/calc-gen-c...s41-flash-tool , but I don't know how legit those are.

  24. #24
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    I suspect there are easily attainable methods of flashing in tunes, I'm just not sure what the best option is currently.

    Regarding your turbo choice, best to get running with whatever you have and then maybe try a different turbo later. Ironically, the turbo is usually one of the easier parts of the whole puzzle to play around with once you get the setup running and basically tuned.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tptrsn View Post
    I suspect there are easily attainable methods of flashing in tunes, I'm just not sure what the best option is currently.

    Regarding your turbo choice, best to get running with whatever you have and then maybe try a different turbo later. Ironically, the turbo is usually one of the easier parts of the whole puzzle to play around with once you get the setup running and basically tuned.
    Yeah that's what I was planning on doing, I'll just keep it for now and try switching later. I'll have to do some digging about a good flashing method though.

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