Picked up a E46 BMW 330I Auto

[ZaxE46]

Hey guys,

I know there is a form already out there about this topic but I am new to any kind of FORM and I figured I would ask in my own words.

So, I just got myself into a beautiful 2003 BMW 330I Automatic trans w/103,xxx Miles. BUDGET IN MIND
I want to bring it up to track worthy standards. Of course with this goal in mind I know I must first put money in to standard keep up.
Right now, I have brand new OEM rotors, pads and wiring on its way and plan to do the work myself. Brand new WR g3 All season tires for the upcoming winter time. What all should I get done as far as replacement parts for my 330i? I would love all kinds of feed back and upgrade ideas as well and suggestions to make it perform like a track car. DIY Explanations would be great as well! Thanks guys!

[bmwdirtracer]

Welcome to the forum.

Hmmm, you bought an Auto trans car to use for a track car? Weird.

Personally, the very first mod I'd recommend is trading for a manual trans car, with a limited slip diff.

Sorry.



Sigh.

[ZaxE46]

Welcome to the forum.

Hmmm, you bought an Auto trans car to use for a track car? Weird.

Personally, the very first mod I'd recommend is trading for a manual trans car, with a limited slip diff.

Sorry.



Sigh.

I wanted a manual. At the time of buying this car I was not thinking of turning it into anything. I just wanted a car that was affordable. So after researching the potential of this car made me want to build it. With all due respect, I asked for tips on building the car I have not advice to get a different ride But thanks

[bmwdirtracer]

No respect is due; I've not earned it from you. I wish I could be of more help. Maybe some of the other track guys at this forum will be better able to assist you. I'm glad that you want to be on a race track.

[ZaxE46]

No respect is due; I've not earned it from you. I wish I could be of more help. Maybe some of the other track guys at this forum will be better able to assist you. I'm glad that you want to be on a race track.

Would doing a Auto to Manual swap be worth doing? What all would i need to get and how much would it cost?

[shadowpuck]

i think i have some unique perspective on this as i started my track driving in an automatic e36. i did eventually convert it to a manual after the automatic failed. so, i can talk about both experiences - driving an "older" bmw automatic on track and then driving the same car as a manual. i've also since instructed in more than a few automatics on track - granted, most are much newer generations which do not really compare to automatics of the e46 era.

all that said - here's my thoughts.

first, join the BMW Car Club of America (BMW CCA) and start following/maintaining the car utilizing Mike Miller's maintenance schedule.
if you want to go to the track, then go to the track with the car you have - make sure it is safe, does not leak fluids, and is up to date with all of its maintenance. do your best to resist the desire to modify the car - start with a stock car that is safe and capable of being driven on track.

then, go to track events - spend your money on maintenance, consumables (ie, tires and brakes), and seat time. i did several events in my automatic e36 before i converted it to a manual. having experience on track helped when i drove the car after the conversion. that said, the e36 is WAY more fun as a manual - it's not even close, and it was quite fun anyway!

if you choose to convert the car to a manual, it can certainly be done! many have done this already - a quick search here and on other forums will tell you everything you need to know. several bmw shops will also do the conversion - some rather affordably as it isn't a super hard job. an e46 has a few more hurdles - namely in wiring and programming, but, those have been solved and are documented on the internet. having done a conversion on my e36, and helped others research and plan theirs on e36 and e46 - i'd say allow a budget of somewhere around 2-3k in parts. my one recommendation on doing a swap like this - if you choose to do it, do not cut corners or take shortcuts - do it right, with the right/quality parts, and make sure it works like it would from the factory.

regardless of automatic or manual - if you are going to go to the track and you don't have years of experience - start with a stock car. stock suspension, bushings, brakes, etc. there is no need to mod anything. after you get some experience and skill you will then be ready to make changes and benefit from those changes. run high quality tires and quality brake components (stock rotors, pads, and fluid are just fine) - once you start to gain some skill you can make slight upgrades to fluid and pads.

[ZaxE46]

i think i have some unique perspective on this as i started my track driving in an automatic e36. i did eventually convert it to a manual after the automatic failed. so, i can talk about both experiences - driving an "older" bmw automatic on track and then driving the same car as a manual. i've also since instructed in more than a few automatics on track - granted, most are much newer generations which do not really compare to automatics of the e46 era.

all that said - here's my thoughts.

first, join the BMW Car Club of America (BMW CCA) and start following/maintaining the car utilizing Mike Miller's maintenance schedule.
if you want to go to the track, then go to the track with the car you have - make sure it is safe, does not leak fluids, and is up to date with all of its maintenance. do your best to resist the desire to modify the car - start with a stock car that is safe and capable of being driven on track.

then, go to track events - spend your money on maintenance, consumables (ie, tires and brakes), and seat time. i did several events in my automatic e36 before i converted it to a manual. having experience on track helped when i drove the car after the conversion. that said, the e36 is WAY more fun as a manual - it's not even close, and it was quite fun anyway!

if you choose to convert the car to a manual, it can certainly be done! many have done this already - a quick search here and on other forums will tell you everything you need to know. several bmw shops will also do the conversion - some rather affordably as it isn't a super hard job. an e46 has a few more hurdles - namely in wiring and programming, but, those have been solved and are documented on the internet. having done a conversion on my e36, and helped others research and plan theirs on e36 and e46 - i'd say allow a budget of somewhere around 2-3k in parts. my one recommendation on doing a swap like this - if you choose to do it, do not cut corners or take shortcuts - do it right, with the right/quality parts, and make sure it works like it would from the factory.

regardless of automatic or manual - if you are going to go to the track and you don't have years of experience - start with a stock car. stock suspension, bushings, brakes, etc. there is no need to mod anything. after you get some experience and skill you will then be ready to make changes and benefit from those changes. run high quality tires and quality brake components (stock rotors, pads, and fluid are just fine) - once you start to gain some skill you can make slight upgrades to fluid and pads.

Hey Thank you for your response !
Ill follow mike miller for that, Ill end up searching the web for track locations any way but if you have any suggested locations in mi to go to, let me know.

Im shuffling things around right now but once i can budget it in i will do the swap.

[shadowpuck]

check out your local BMW club chapter - all information you seek exists within.

grattan raceway is a great track - mid ohio isn't too terribly far away - same goes for tracks in the chicago area. a little basic searching will give you all the details.

[ZaxE46]

check out your local BMW club chapter - all information you seek exists within.

grattan raceway is a great track - mid ohio isn't too terribly far away - same goes for tracks in the chicago area. a little basic searching will give you all the details.

Thank you, what are you referring to when you say BMW Club Chapter?

I don't have a Facebook, also I don't want to expense money into online site.

I just had my tires put on and I am being told i need to replace my coil springs, I am thinking of just going ahead and replacing front and rear shocks and springs. Any good sites to get parts from? Mainly looking into adjustable kits seeing i have to replace them soon anyway.

[shadowpuck]

Thank you, what are you referring to when you say BMW Club Chapter?

I don't have a Facebook, also I don't want to expense money into online site.

I just had my tires put on and I am being told i need to replace my coil springs, I am thinking of just going ahead and replacing front and rear shocks and springs. Any good sites to get parts from? Mainly looking into adjustable kits seeing i have to replace them soon anyway.

BMW Car Club of America (www.bmwcca.org) - it's a car club for BMW fans and car lovers in general. There are chapters all throughout the US.
Just FYI - online transactions are very safe as long as you don't use a debit card (this is my area of expertise). Anyway.

who said anything about facebook? No need to involve Facebook.

Did they say why the springs need to be replaced?

It is best to do suspension as a whole - so, yes, front/rear shocks/struts and springs. However, no need for anything adjustable - please read my note from earlier.
Bilstein shocks/struts with HR springs is a classic combo and a great choice. Nothing adjustable necessary.

[bmwdirtracer]

+1 to Yellow Bilstein Sport shocks with H&R springs. The H&R springs are a bit shorter, and the Bilstein Sports are, too. Do NOT buy black Bilsteins; these are dead stock OEM specs. Turner Motorsport is probably the best place for a good matched kit. Buy strut mounts and shock mounts, too -- these are the rubber parts / bearings which you mount the struts into. These are worn out, and you're THERE, you need to replace them when doing the shocks / struts.

As shadowpuck has stressed, it's much better to begin your track adventures with NON-adjustable shocks and springs. Bilsteins and H&Rs are all I've ever run on my dual-purpose cars. When you go to the track, especially for the first few years, and in non-racing situations, you're there to have fun, and go fast. What you DON'T want to be doing is crawling around under the car between sessions, adjusting your jounce and rebound and ride heights, by guessing and "butt-feel".

You want your car to be reliable, and safe, and handle very predictably.




BMW CCA is the best! You'll get a GREAT magazine every month, discounts on parts from the dealer, access to club events, including High Performance Driving Schools, friends to help you understand and work on your BMW, etc. No Facebook involved.

Oh, BMWCCA is the largest car club in the world. There will be a chapter near you.

[ZaxE46]

+1 to Yellow Bilstein Sport shocks with H&R springs. The H&R springs are a bit shorter, and the Bilstein Sports are, too. Do NOT buy black Bilsteins; these are dead stock OEM specs. Turner Motorsport is probably the best place for a good matched kit. Buy strut mounts and shock mounts, too -- these are the rubber parts / bearings which you mount the struts into. These are worn out, and you're THERE, you need to replace them when doing the shocks / struts.

As shadowpuck has stressed, it's much better to begin your track adventures with NON-adjustable shocks and springs. Bilsteins and H&Rs are all I've ever run on my dual-purpose cars. When you go to the track, especially for the first few years, and in non-racing situations, you're there to have fun, and go fast. What you DON'T want to be doing is crawling around under the car between sessions, adjusting your jounce and rebound and ride heights, by guessing and "butt-feel".

You want your car to be reliable, and safe, and handle very predictably.




BMW CCA is the best! You'll get a GREAT magazine every month, discounts on parts from the dealer, access to club events, including High Performance Driving Schools, friends to help you understand and work on your BMW, etc. No Facebook involved.

Oh, BMWCCA is the largest car club in the world. There will be a chapter near you.

Awesome, feed back guys! As i think i have made it clear, I am new to fixing up cars and don't know to much about what i am looking for. So i do need help LOL Can you send me a link to parts you are referring to? Thank you

[bmwdirtracer]

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...ackage/?pdk=AQ

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...i/?pdk=AQEBAQE

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-6...-not-m-models/


If you want to place your order by phone, you want to ask for Doug Mahar.


Chris

[ZaxE46]

I ended up ordering a set of BC racing Coil-overs, Once installed what do you guys suggest I do for setting them up to give me the best cornering on the streets.
Also, will I need an alignment after installing them?

[bmwdirtracer]

.

To set them up for optimum cornering, you go to the race track, and spend a full day or two adjusting ride heights, jounce and rebound settings, and making careful notes of the lap times and segment times with every change. A data acquisition system is very important. You'll likely want to buy several sets of springs, to adjust springrate at both ends individually, to come to a good compromise in the control of roll stiffness vs. understeer and oversteer, and keeping the inside tires on the ground.

Then, of course, you'll take the car out on the street, and find out that those settings are undriveable, and make pieces fall off the car over every bump.

We tried to warn you. You will not make the car corner any better, on the street, then it would do with Bilsteins and H&R's, but you will lose much streetability and long term reliability..

Oh, regarding alignment: Well, yeah, you're likely going to end up lowering the car way too much, causing excessive negative camber, which will eat your tires. The rear of your car has a little adjustment for this (not nearly enough, and the eccentric bolts are rusted solid by now in the bushings anyway.) The front has no adjustment for this. You'll need custom adjustable lower control arms in the rear, and camber plates in the front. Tires that aren't flat on the ground do not corner well.

If you want a car that sticks incredibly well, buy a set of R compound tires; maybe Kumho V710s or Hoosier A7's. They'll only last a couple hundred miles, but if you want grip, that's where to find it.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...r&tireModel=A7

[shadowpuck]

well, i happen to agree with chris. now, certainly, it's your money and your car so you can do as you see fit - but, i would point out you've pretty much gone the opposite of what we advised you. and, that advice comes with many years of experience.

that said - please find a very qualified BMW shop that knows these cars inside and out. have them install the suspension (we never even found out why it needed replacing, but, we can probably guess given age/mileage) and have them set it up for street driving. then, DO NOT try and change it yourself. get to some schools and learn how to drive the car first.

i happen to have a fully adjustable setup on my car - and, i've adjusted it once - exactly once. i then was lucky enough to have someone that knows how to set up a car drive it - he was very impressed and told me not to touch a thing as i'd "screw it up." that was years ago. i haven't touched it other than to make sure it's stayed the same...

again, i'm going to repeat what i said earlier - if you intend to take this car on track you need to make sure it is safe, not leaking fluids, and has good brakes and tires. the suspension setup (especially for a beginner) should be as close to stock as possible.

[bmwdirtracer]

I know, I'm a little rough around the edges, now and then, huh? Sorry, Zach.

We were seriously trying to prevent you from getting into the same mistake we made, years ago, or one we've seen dozens of other people make, over many years of teaching advanced driving / racing.

With a well-set up suspension system, the driver can make the car do what he wants it to do, at any given moment. The Bilstein / H&R kits are like that.

When you buy a highly adjustable suspension set up, then YOU have to adjust it. If you want to do half as good of a job as Bilstein and H&R, then you need a great deal of experience, and a great deal of testing time, and a number of scientific instruments to confirm your data, to "calibrate your buttfeel".

Without this experience, and INSTRUMENTED, REPEATABLE TESTING, the odds are greatly in favor of your making a slower car, than a faster one. Trouble is, sometimes it FEELS fast, but isn't.

And I might mention that you can't seriously do this set up on winter-oriented tires, and hope for it to work on sticky tires. And then there's the wet set-up, and the dry set-up, and the backroads set up vs. the V.I.R set up vs. the West Palm set up.

[ZaxE46]

I know, I'm a little rough around the edges, now and then, huh? Sorry, Zach.

We were seriously trying to prevent you from getting into the same mistake we made, years ago, or one we've seen dozens of other people make, over many years of teaching advanced driving / racing.

With a well-set up suspension system, the driver can make the car do what he wants it to do, at any given moment. The Bilstein / H&R kits are like that.

When you buy a highly adjustable suspension set up, then YOU have to adjust it. If you want to do half as good of a job as Bilstein and H&R, then you need a great deal of experience, and a great deal of testing time, and a number of scientific instruments to confirm your data, to "calibrate your buttfeel".

Without this experience, and INSTRUMENTED, REPEATABLE TESTING, the odds are greatly in favor of your making a slower car, than a faster one. Trouble is, sometimes it FEELS fast, but isn't.

And I might mention that you can't seriously do this set up on winter-oriented tires, and hope for it to work on sticky tires. And then there's the wet set-up, and the dry set-up, and the backroads set up vs. the V.I.R set up vs. the West Palm set up.

Hey Guys, By no means am i trying to insult your advice, in fact if I could afford the set up that you have suggested I would have done that already. The BC Coil overs have great reviews and I don't hear of anyone that doesn't enjoy them.

Winter is approaching very quickly and I do have to consider that into my BMW because it is my daily as well.
I'm doing the best I can to maintain it with the money I have/make.

I heard that these coil overs are highly recommended for advanced drivers. Yes i'm not there yet but I will be, I don't plan to play with the coil overs until after winter time. I just have to prep them for winter once they are on the car.

Again I really do appreciate the advice you guys provide and I want to be able to follow it.

[aeronaut]

Like the guys above, I've been down this road, and am now an instructor and see many cars similar to where you're headed.
Can you return the BC coilovers? If yes, do it. Then follow the advice from above.
Why? Let me ask, what spring rates are you running? What rake? What ARBs? What tires? What alignment specs are you telling your alignment shop?

I'm guessing up next, a bright red BBK!

[ZaxE46]

Like the guys above, I've been down this road, and am now an instructor and see many cars similar to where you're headed.
Can you return the BC coilovers? If yes, do it. Then follow the advice from above.
Why? Let me ask, what spring rates are you running? What rake? What ARBs? What tires? What alignment specs are you telling your alignment shop?

I'm guessing up next, a bright red BBK!

Again, I must let you all know AGAIN, I am new to this whole thing. How about letting me know the best way to set up my BC Coilovers? I didn't make the thread to argue with people, I cant afford the set up that's being suggested. I went with what will work for the time being and if you want to help me out, please do let me know what i should do to set up the BC coil overs properly. Thanks

[aeronaut]

Without knowing more, no one can help you setup your BC's, or any other, coilover 'properly'. The reason C/Os are adjustable, is because every driver, track, tire, ride height, and car is DIFFERENT. Hence, they are adjustable. If there was one setting that worked, then they don't need to be adjustable.

You'll need to do research on what your ride height and rake need to be as a starting point. And for better or worse, BC's aren't that well understood by the serious track folks, because serious track guys tend to use coil-overs that are supported by vendors that have serious track experience (Turner, Bimmerworld, TCK, etc).

How did I setup my TCK C/Os? Buy calling TCK and discussing. Can you call the company you purchased from and get initial ride-height and damping settings? If so, that might be helpful. (HINT, if they say start at any height more than about an inch lower than stock, run away.)

So, start with ride height and rake. You'll have to measure things, and you'll have to find out what a good starting point is. Height/rake trade-offs are discussed ad nauseum on these forums. I can't help there because I don't know the E46 platform and don't know BC coilovers. A little reasearch should get you a good starting point. If you can't find that, start at stock height/rake or 1/2-1" lower (that is, if your springs are the proper length to allow this). Knowing nothing else, I'd start with compression and rebound damping in the middle settings. But those settings are VERY dependant on your spring rates and the dampers themselves.

You'll need an alignment after height/rake settings. You should consider a corner balance (that's another big advantage with C/Os), but I'm guessing that's not in the cards.

If you don't like any of the above, put all your damping settings on "11", slam the thing to the ground, ruin your roll-center, bang it off the bump stops, and have fun.

[aeronaut]

Just one more thing, I don't see anyone here 'arguing' with you. You've asked for advice. We've given it. You've decided to go a different direction. That's fine. We can continue to give you solid advice for a TRACK car, and you can choose to use that advice or not. We won't change our advice. None of that is arguing.

[shadowpuck]

i know this started out as a get a car ready to go on track discussion - and, obviously, all of us made suggestions based on that theme.

i'd like to step back for a second though - so, zax, you bought this suspension - i'm curious, what did this cost (in round numbers)? i admit, i hadn't heard of BC (but, I don't keep track of every suspension vendor on the planet). most everyone i know runs Bilstein/HR, TCK, GC, Moton, and some AST, etc.

but, anyway - you bought this suspension, and, i have to ask, why? you mention this is your daily driver, and your location says Michigan. So, I'm going to ask - are you ready for winter in this car? Do you have a set of snow tires? In general, what's the maintenance status of the vehicle? Was the cooling system replaced recently? Any fluid leaks? And, why was the suspension targeted for replacement (other than wanting to go on track).

I love driving on track and going to track events - but, it is an expensive hobby. There are some ways to do it on a budget, but (in my opinion) that takes a lot of patience and willingness to stay the course/know the big picture.

if all you want to focus on is this suspension question - then, well, my recommendations have already been stated a few times. if you are going to use the setup you purchased, i'd recommend finding a local shop that knows BMWs and can set this up for you. as i mentioned previously, get involved in your local BMW CCA chapter.

[Def]

I'm sure this will not be heeded, but if you cannot afford BASIC prep to a track car, you flat out cannot afford to take your car to the race track. It's not a cheap hobby, even with a low consumable cost car you're talking about entry fees of a few hundred dollars minimum for the weekend, plus about $100-250/consumables for the weekend (this is for a CHEAP car to track), and at least $50-100 for gas.

The parts cost is a minor part of this expense, and jumping into this with the "mod bug" from the getgo is not the way to actually get to the track and start learning.

[ZaxE46]

i know this started out as a get a car ready to go on track discussion - and, obviously, all of us made suggestions based on that theme.

i'd like to step back for a second though - so, zax, you bought this suspension - i'm curious, what did this cost (in round numbers)? i admit, i hadn't heard of BC (but, I don't keep track of every suspension vendor on the planet). most everyone i know runs Bilstein/HR, TCK, GC, Moton, and some AST, etc.

but, anyway - you bought this suspension, and, i have to ask, why? you mention this is your daily driver, and your location says Michigan. So, I'm going to ask - are you ready for winter in this car? Do you have a set of snow tires? In general, what's the maintenance status of the vehicle? Was the cooling system replaced recently? Any fluid leaks? And, why was the suspension targeted for replacement (other than wanting to go on track).

I love driving on track and going to track events - but, it is an expensive hobby. There are some ways to do it on a budget, but (in my opinion) that takes a lot of patience and willingness to stay the course/know the big picture.

if all you want to focus on is this suspension question - then, well, my recommendations have already been stated a few times. if you are going to use the setup you purchased, i'd recommend finding a local shop that knows BMWs and can set this up for you. as i mentioned previously, get involved in your local BMW CCA chapter.

I bought a pair of all seasons Wrg3 "rated for extreme weather" don't know how much of that is true.
I will be daily driving this car much more then tracking it. it is not a track focus. I may have miss directed you guys if that is the thought. Racing around town is more of what will be common. When i had my tires swapped out for the wrg3s they had discovered that the rear coils were pretty much done working and also the shocks were leaking. So i figure i would just replace everything because i figured it needed to be done.

Get the most costly things out of the way as far as parts.
I also still need to replace the Fuel filter, rear pinion seal or dif seal, not sure what it is. I did a power steering flush on it already but still need to flush the cooling system, while i do that i also plan on replacing anything that looks bad or cracked, for sure going to replace thermostat.

I have a lot of plans for this car and to rebuild it to be capable of preforming on the track as well as high speed street driving.
Thanks

- - - Updated - - -

I will have to shoot them a call and figure that out, thanks!