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Thread: Budget build M60B44, my first S/C build

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Phoenix, az
    Posts
    78
    My Cars
    1995 540i/6; 1994 540i
    Bravo!

    Most of this is going over my head, but I'm enjoying trying to figure it out!

    Keep it up!
    '95 540i/6
    Swartz II
    250K miles

    '94 540iA
    Island Green
    178K miles

    '99 E39 540i
    190,000 miles

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Prescott, Az
    Posts
    439
    My Cars
    '95 540i/6
    Since I would be retarding intake cams for such a late IVC angle. With the supercharger, I would be effectively running a Miller Cycle engine. I'm doing research now on the tuning and engine behaviors of running the engine this way.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Ashgabat
    Posts
    841
    My Cars
    e36 v8 Turbo HX-40
    Quote Originally Posted by Mykk View Post
    Another goodie arrived; The head studs for the M60/M62.



    After crunching the numbers for compression ratio with the info I have, I've decided to run the 2.07mm thick head gasket.

    By my calculation: 92mm bore x 82.7mm stroke with 143mm rods, +.84mm piston deck height. 50cc combustion chamber. 93mm x 2.07mm head gaskets yield a 10.41:1 static compression with a 1.23mm (.048") Piston to head/Quench/Squish distance.

    With camshaft timing at 120°ICL/115°LSA gives a 63° ABDC intake valve closing angle (14° valve overlap). The intake ICL and 5,358' elevation of the town I live in bumps down the compression to a 7.32:1 effective/dynamic compression without boost.

    By keeping the 3" jaguar pulley on the supercharger I could manage the full S/C output of around 8psi (at my altitude), bumping the effective compression up to 11.3:1
    I am worry about your compression calculation. You should have next:
    1. Bore 92mm
    2. Stroke 82.7mm
    3. Head Gascet 2.07mm
    Deck clearance: 0.0
    Piston top volume: 0.0
    Compression ratio: 9.68:1
    Combustion chamber volume: 49.5184 cc

    e39 540i 6speed Supercharged,
    E36 v8 m62 with m60 headers, Turbp HX-40 0.6-0.5bar or 9psi, custom exhaust & Turbo manifold, injectors 440cc, ECU Invent EMS-2, Mishimoto Intercooler and oilcooler, etc…

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Prescott, Az
    Posts
    439
    My Cars
    '95 540i/6
    Quote Originally Posted by dovlet View Post
    I am worry about your compression calculation. You should have next:
    1. Bore 92mm
    2. Stroke 82.7mm
    3. Head Gascet 2.07mm
    Deck clearance: 0.0
    Piston top volume: 0.0
    Compression ratio: 9.68:1
    Combustion chamber volume: 49.5184 cc

    It isn't zero deck. Pistons sit .033" / .84mm above the deck at TDC.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Prescott, Az
    Posts
    439
    My Cars
    '95 540i/6
    I've been fighting the crank bolts for a while. On both engines, I tried a breaker bar. Then breaker bar with jack handle as cheater pipe. Then I went and got an air compressor and tried my air gun. Then went and got a new air gun and a new 27mm impact socket.....Still no luck.

    Loaded the engines into the back of my truck and took them down to a local shop. After spending 20mins of solid impact gun kicking on the M60B40 the crank bolt eventually backed out. No luck on the M62, we then tried to heat up the bolt with a propane torch and attack it with the impact gun. No luck. We then upgraded to a 1" drive two handed impact gun. Nope.

    I've now left the M62 at another shop with the instructions to attack it by all means necessary, including oxy acetylene. This M62 has signs that timing guide let go and was replaced. I'm wondering if someone used locktight on the crankbolt and then impact gun to tighten.

    I've made some more progress on the M60B40 tear down and now have the timing covers off. Where could I purchase new OEM M60B40 timing guides. They have signs of wear and grooves and would like to replace.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    915
    My Cars
    2003 328i
    I kicked two crank bolt's asses with a Milwaukee 1/2 inch cordless impact. The M60 fought the hardest but it did submit after a solid ten seconds of blasting.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Ashgabat
    Posts
    841
    My Cars
    e36 v8 Turbo HX-40
    Bro, how did you get deck? You should not have a deck on m62.
    e39 540i 6speed Supercharged,
    E36 v8 m62 with m60 headers, Turbp HX-40 0.6-0.5bar or 9psi, custom exhaust & Turbo manifold, injectors 440cc, ECU Invent EMS-2, Mishimoto Intercooler and oilcooler, etc…

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Prescott, Az
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    439
    My Cars
    '95 540i/6
    Dial indicator zero'd on the deck. The M62 has .033"pop out, the M60B40 also is above deck but I haven't measured yet.

    Standard is .025" above deck leading me to believe some had decked block before I got it.
    Last edited by Mykk; 11-16-2017 at 12:11 PM.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Prescott, Az
    Posts
    439
    My Cars
    '95 540i/6
    Cleaned up deck surface and piston tops, installed head studs.



    Still a long way to go, I only get a spare hour at a time here and there.

    I see the oil feed port that needs to get blocked off when using the M60 double roller chain, idler & guides.
    Last edited by Mykk; 11-26-2017 at 10:20 AM.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    151
    My Cars
    540 SC -89, Compact M60
    There you see difference of those waterholes. Bank 2 is smaller and that is reason why pistons 8 and 7 broke ringlands when you have more power.

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Prescott, Az
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    439
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    '95 540i/6
    I see it and plan to open up the smaller bank opening soon.

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    513
    My Cars
    1995 540/6 Calypsorot
    Quote Originally Posted by Mykk View Post
    I see it and plan to open up the smaller bank opening soon.
    Curious how you’ll approach this, and interested in the details when you finish.

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Prescott, Az
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    '95 540i/6
    A friend wanted to see a rough mock up of the assembled engine. I was happy to oblige:



    After tearing apart the M60B40 I've decided to order all new timing chain, guides, idler sprocket and crank gear. I've completely blown the budget out of the original mindset. This isn't an invitation to go for broke, I still need to mind dollars and cents. But I'll be able to sleep better at night knowing I've used some new parts in the build.

    That M62 single chain crank gear did not come off peacefully:

    Last edited by Mykk; 11-27-2017 at 09:30 PM.

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Prescott, Az
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    439
    My Cars
    '95 540i/6
    After cleaning up the piston tops and deck surface I decided to check out piston to deck height again, this time using a proper cylinder bridge with the dial indicator.

    Did you know that M62 pistons are dished? I didn't until I noticed I was getting different readings depending where on the piston top I was measuring from. I noticed as I would drag the cyl bridge from one side of the piston to the other following the path of the wrist pin the measurement would go down as it went to the center of piston and come back up going towards the edge.

    The measured highest distant above deck, closest to edge of piston is .025" ABOVE deck. Middle of piston, .003" above deck.







    I decided to use the same CC volume kit I used on the combustion chambers to get an idea of how much volume is in that piston dish. I brought the edge of the piston perfectly flush with the deck height and then filled her up:







    I measured every piston with the cyl bridge and dial indicator and all came within .001"-.002" of each other. But I only CC'd one piston top and came to exactly 4cc's of volume in the piston dish.

    I feel I've accumulated enough accurate information to now order head gaskets and move on with the project.
    Last edited by Mykk; 12-03-2017 at 02:45 PM.

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Prescott, Az
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    439
    My Cars
    '95 540i/6
    After crunching the above numbers with the new data, here is what I come up with as a good combination:





    This would be using the 1.65mm thick head gasket, it brings the squish/quench down to .040" at the highest point of the piston edges. This calculated dynamic compression would be using O.E. cam timing with the M60 timing blocks...which I am now more inclined to do seeing that pistons are not as far above deck as I anticipated and taking into account that slight dish in the piston top.
    Last edited by Mykk; 12-03-2017 at 03:39 PM.

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    DeWitt, Michigan
    Posts
    6,080
    My Cars
    '97 540i/6, '97 328i
    Whoa, I LOVE this thread!! You are really getting into some cool details. Thanks for sharing!

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Prescott, Az
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    '95 540i/6
    Could not find 1.65mm thick gaskets anywhere, no online supplier. In the name of getting the ball rolling I ordered a set of Reinz 1.74mm MLS head gaskets.

    New static compression: 9.78:1
    New effective/ dynamic compression with boost and altitude: 11.41:1
    .044" Quench/Squish.

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Prescott, Az
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    '95 540i/6
    I've spent the past couple of years learning all I could about the Bosch Motronic M3.3 EFI. Learned how to read the hex code, what to change. Experimented in tuning my 540i. Ordered every name brand performance chip to learn what and how other tuners changed and why. Worked with others to further the development of discovering all of the available possibilities of tuning the Motronic and I feel I've reached what I would consider my limit of wanting to work with this system. Frankly I'm just not getting the results and flexibility I want from an EFI. So I made a decision, go standalone.

    The standalone of my choice? An open-source project called Speeduino.





    An Aurduino based board that uses TunerStudioMS (Megasquirt) software for tuning. It allows for 4 injector controls and 4 ignition outputs. Which means my V8 will be in waste spark and two injectors will be paired for a semi-batch fire.

    I've already gutted one DME for a retro-fit forthe Speeduino and two Bosch 4ch ignition control modules (Audi/VW) inside and then wire up to the original DME harness.



    I program the unit to use the original crank sensor and trigger wheel (Bosch 60-2 with 60 degree offset) as well as cam sensor. Load a base tune, then TunerStudio has the ability to self tune the VE table based on desired AFRs. The Speeduino v0.4 board has a built in 0kpa-250kpa MAP sensor. It will be running Speed Density.

    I am already sleeping better at night knowing that the commanded ignition timing and fueling from the software will be exactly what's happening in the cylinder. Unlike with the Bosch Motronic I had to hope the information available online is correct and use my best judgment. Even then, the vehicle performance was inconsistent. And without being to live stream sensor data, programming or datalog it really is a guessing game.
    Last edited by Mykk; 12-03-2017 at 06:41 PM.

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Prescott, Az
    Posts
    439
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    '95 540i/6
    Because the new EFI system will use waste spark for the V8, I decided to take a look at what two cylinders are the companion cylinders in the M62:

    Cyl 1 & 6



    Cyl 2 & 8



    Cyl 3 & 5



    Cyl 4 & 7


  20. #70
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    STL
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    2017 M3 6sp
    Quote Originally Posted by Mykk View Post
    The standalone of my choice? An open-source project called Speeduino.
    Wow! This is super-cool. I really like idea of re-using stock case and just rewire inside of the box so on outside it looks all stock. I guess you will need to get USB cable into the car, right?

    How is I6 going to work with this ECU? 4 channels won't do, right? V8 have essentially 2x I4s, so it works..

    I can see benefit on stock engine, it should work better just because it's newer and can adapt.

  21. #71
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    Prescott, Az
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    '95 540i/6
    6cyl would just use 3 of the 4 channels of the injector and ign, you would have 2 paired of cylinders like the v8

  22. #72
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    2017 M3 6sp
    Quote Originally Posted by Mykk View Post
    6cyl would just use 3 of the 4 channels of the injector and ign, you would have 2 paired of cylinders like the v8
    Thanks a lot! I think it will be a very cool project(when I'm done with everything). Outcome might be better than any off the shelf chip I think, and much safer. And probably improve FE

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Prescott, Az
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    '95 540i/6
    I've decided the heads need a go through, a clean up, seat & valve dress up and new lifters.

    I can officially disclaim; this is no longer a "budget build" but definitely can't spend the full amount or a total rebuild.

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    DeWitt, Michigan
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    '97 540i/6, '97 328i
    VERY interesting about your move to that standalone!

    I recently went through the same thing with my car. The DME M5.2 just gave random, unpredictable results at times, and overall just freaked me out. Since I already had an MS3+MS3X partially built, I finished it up and installed it. Life has been heavenly since.



    Does that Speeduino have coil driver transistors in it, or does it somehow integrate with the DME hardware?
    Last edited by tptrsn; 12-04-2017 at 09:39 AM.

  25. #75
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    '95 540i/6
    Quote Originally Posted by tptrsn View Post
    Does that Speeduino have coil driver transistors in it, or does it somehow integrate with the DME hardware?
    Very cool, do you have a build thread?

    The speeduino can not directly drive coils, instead I'm employing two Bosch ign modules that can drive 4 coils each.

    http://www.useasydocs.com/Bosch_211.htm

    I've also an MSD DIS-4 but I'm hesitant to use it as it would need to drive 2 coils per channel.
    Last edited by Mykk; 12-04-2017 at 12:14 PM.

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