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Thread: Budget build M60B44, my first S/C build

  1. #101
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Prescott, Az
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    439
    My Cars
    '95 540i/6
    A quick search online shows: step one, hand tight. Step 2 30nm torqued. Step 3, +80 degree torque angle. Step 4, another 80 degrees torque angle.

    Using a torque angle gauge:

    https://user.xmission.com/~kd7olf/torque.html

    This torque angle seems to be critical when using TTY head bolts, I'll keep digging for specs with studs.

    ARP torque specs for head studs on the BMW 6 cylinder:

    M20 engine = 70ft-lbs

    M50/M52 = 75ft-lbs
    Last edited by Mykk; 03-23-2018 at 09:04 AM.

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    151
    My Cars
    540 SC -89,CBR1000RR NOS
    Ex:
    E39 540 M60b44 At
    E39 540/6
    E38 740/6
    E34 540/6 Touring
    E34 540/6 Touring
    And many automatic V8 E34, E38, E39.

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Prescott, Az
    Posts
    439
    My Cars
    '95 540i/6
    That's kinda crazy. I took a look at my raceware studs packaging today and couldn't find that sheet. Maybe I send them a contact to see of I can get a response saying I've misplaced my install instructions.

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Prescott, Az
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    '95 540i/6
    Heard back from Raceware:



    Still a crazy low torque spec. But, if that's what they recommend then alright.
    Last edited by Mykk; 04-11-2018 at 09:55 PM.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    151
    My Cars
    540 SC -89,CBR1000RR NOS
    I can tell that is not all right.

    3 engines, Athena gaskest and many hours .. now need to buy one engine and hg more.
    Not happy customer here.
    Ex:
    E39 540 M60b44 At
    E39 540/6
    E38 740/6
    E34 540/6 Touring
    E34 540/6 Touring
    And many automatic V8 E34, E38, E39.

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Prescott, Az
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    My Cars
    '95 540i/6
    Heads back from machine shop. I'll CC them at my garage when I'm out there next to see the new combustion chamber volume after milling. I don't know how many thousandths was removed.

    Everything cleaned up well enough.







    I've now got everything needed to finish the build.

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Greatest City
    Posts
    59
    My Cars
    95 547i
    Quote Originally Posted by Mykk View Post
    Very excited, Jaguar Supercharger intake manifolds to BMW heads adapters & idler bracket kit arrived. The pivitol piece to the entire build.



    The heads are out getting rebuilt and the timing covers cleaned up. While awaiting the return of the heads I've started, slowly, bolting other things back together.




    Also pleased to report the Speeduino is working great and I'm confident enough to run the system on this engine. I've got a few bugs and growing pains to resolve, but nothing out of control and the vehicle drives great.
    I gotta know how much that adapter plate cost. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to publicly post it

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Prescott, Az
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    439
    My Cars
    '95 540i/6
    Somehow after getting the heads back from the machine shop I've measured more combustion chamber volume then before I shipped them out for rebuild. Perhaps some carbon build up, or machining differences...Valve seat depth? I've gained 3cc of volume in the chambers. Before I had roughly 50cc, now I'm measuring 53cc.

    (syringe starts with 60cc of water, inject the water into chamber untill all air is gone.)



    Putting my new estimated static compression ratio to 9.5:1 with these B40 heads on the M62 block. Which I am A-okay with, lower compression = happier supercharged engines.

    ....Houston we have a problem, well...just one more minor hurdle.

    Heads bolted on great, intake manifold adapters bolted on great as well. The Jaguar lower/injectors manifold also bolted on great. However the Jaguar intercoolers/manifolds will not fit the Jaguar lower manifolds.







    I've concluded that my supercharger and intercoolers/manifolds must have come from a newer 4.2L Jaguar V8 and thus different cylinder spacing. I've already sourced and earlier year Jag 4.0L Intercoolers/manifolds and I'm crossing my fingers everything else Jag bolts up smooth. Once I'm 100% that the Supercharger outlet duct will line up with earlier Intercoolers and the inlet duct & bypass valve will work as planned I can then modify the supercharger case as noted in the adapter plates instructions.

    Until the replacement intercoolers arrive I guess I'll just sit and stare at it for a while...or put the rest of it together.

    Last edited by Mykk; 04-23-2018 at 10:30 PM.

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Prescott, Az
    Posts
    439
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    '95 540i/6
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldenich View Post
    Hi, I'm currently building an m60b44 and after putting the timing chain back on, it seems incredibly tight with the tensioner installed. So much so it's somewhat difficult to install the upper valve cover but still possible. Did you run into this issue too? Thanks.

    I just came across this on my own build. Double timing chain is extremely tight. (In photo below: I'm aware I need to re-clock Bank 1 intake cam gears for cam trigger @ TDC). But it does fit, barely.



    Here's my theory on it;

    When I measure piston height of the M60B40 it came out to .035" above block deck @ TDC.

    The M62B44 piston height is .025" above deck (at highest point, since piston is dished).

    I'll bet that M62 block height is taller then M60. It's tough to say by how much. From my understanding both M60 and M62 have 143mm length rods, the M62 has 2.7mm (.11") longer stroke and I honestly don't know about piston pin height. But in order for the M62 pistons to sit .010" lower then the M60's there has got the be a block height difference

    I too can barely get the timing cover to clear the chain tensioner/guide and it doesn't seem there is any room for the hydraulic tensioner. I'll need to do some research to see what other M60B44 guys have done.

    ...at least we know we won't get the dreaded chain slap on cold start, har har.
    Last edited by Mykk; 04-24-2018 at 06:00 PM.

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Prescott, Az
    Posts
    439
    My Cars
    '95 540i/6
    Replaced the cam-to-cam chain tensioner guides.



    Getting the timing set up. Does this look correct to you guys for cam timing and cam gear phasing? I've set cyl#1 to TDC with dial indicator, installed cams with lettering facing up. Installed timing blocks to lock cams. Then set timing gears for middle of adjustment slotting and have the bigger cam gears with the arrows pointing upward following spark plug angle.












    Cam lobe angle of #1:



    And cam lobe angle of cyl#6 which is cyl#1's twin cylinder. As Cyl #1 is at TDC of it's compression stroke cyl #6 is at TDC of it's exhaust stroke,



    Everything feels like it's right, I was able to install timing chain this way and still have all timing gears in the middle of adjustment slot. Once timing cover is on I'll verify cam timing events with degree wheel and dial indicator.
    Last edited by Mykk; 04-28-2018 at 08:20 AM.

  11. #111
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    915
    My Cars
    2003 328i
    Quote Originally Posted by 516SC View Post
    I can tell that is not all right.

    3 engines, Athena gaskest and many hours .. now need to buy one engine and hg more.
    Not happy customer here.
    Regarding head studs, the Raceware studs use a very fine thread pitch. This generates more clamping force for a given torque setting. The stock head bolts use the three step angle torque because they are a torque to yield fastener.

    I used them on my turbo M20 and they had the same specs. 42 ft-lbs final torque. They are a good product and they do work as advertised.

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    1,903
    My Cars
    E24, E34 x2, E36
    What brand of headers are those sneaking on the side of the engine.

    Also read somewhere that u have a 3.62 diff. It’s going to fry your tyres big time.

    I run the 3.15 currently and even this is too short for first and 2nd one tuning is done and it starts making power.
    BMW’s
    90 E34 M5
    84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
    94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
    97 Z3 2.8
    97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c


    OTHERS
    11 Audi S5 APR stg2
    19 Volkswagen Amarok V6


  13. #113
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Prescott, Az
    Posts
    439
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    '95 540i/6
    Quote Originally Posted by GazM3 View Post
    What brand of headers are those sneaking on the side of the engine.

    Also read somewhere that u have a 3.62 diff. It’s going to fry your tyres big time.

    I run the 3.15 currently and even this is too short for first and 2nd one tuning is done and it starts making power.
    They are S65 exhaust manifolds, they aren't a direct bolt on and won't fit the E34 chassis. But I love them and have a plan to get them to bolt to the engine. I haven't convinced myself 100% to put this engine in my E34 540i/6 yet...It might end up in there for a while, but really I've got another idea for this engine that I want to run with...



    Yes, 3.62:1 in my 540i/6. I haven't had a chance to drive it with it's current N/A engine with the 3.62's as I have a few more tweaks and adjustments to do. I can't tell if I like the E60 short shifter yet or not, but moving it around my property at low speed I'm leaning towards Not....
    Last edited by Mykk; 05-01-2018 at 09:37 AM.

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    1,903
    My Cars
    E24, E34 x2, E36
    Hot rod idea sounds cool.
    I one day would like to instal the m60 in a speedboat.
    BMW’s
    90 E34 M5
    84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
    94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
    97 Z3 2.8
    97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c


    OTHERS
    11 Audi S5 APR stg2
    19 Volkswagen Amarok V6


  15. #115
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Prescott, Az
    Posts
    439
    My Cars
    '95 540i/6
    Ran into a fitment issue with the intercoolers/upper intake manifolds. I got the upper manifolds, supercharger , inlet and outlet ducts as one unit ordered from LKQ. Turns out it's a Gen V blower that came on a 4.2L XKR. There is enough design difference that they wouldn't bolt down to the older 4.0L XJ8 lower intake manifolds:





    I was able to source a pair of older 4.0L XJ8 intercoolers and they bolted down to the lower manifold and luckily also lined up with the Gen V inlet, bypass and outlet ducts.







    I had noticed that the 'Right Stuff' black RTV wasn't gluing itself to the aluminum, I could pull it off by hand. I pulled the oil pan and coolant valley cover, cleaned and layed grey 'Right Stuff' RTV and bolted back together. Hopefully that has more of a gluing effect on the aluminum.

    Now to clean up and paint...and of course finish the rest of the build. Next step will be timing covers (waiting for hardware) and to degree camshaft timing.

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Prescott, Az
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    439
    My Cars
    '95 540i/6
    I thought I was gonna be so smart last night. I thought I could measure cam timing events by using the cam lobe itself with a dial indicator sitting 180° out of the lifter and measuring cam event's as they were 360° degrees out of actual cylinder phase (since cams spins 1/2 speed of crank).

    Got it all set up, degree wheel zero'd @ TDC #1 and started marking what angle things were happening while spinning the engine over by hand. But the measurements weren't adding up.

    Moved dial indicator over to intake cylinder 6, because Cyl 6 is 360° out of cyl 1 I wouldn't need to move degree wheel. Those measurements weren't even close to cylinder #1...

    ...took me a while but then it dawned on me, the valves, stems and lifters are angled in the heads so reading cam timing 180/360 out is impossible by mounting dial indicator parallel to head surface. Cyl #1 & Cyl #6 the valves are angled in a mirrored angle away from each other thus the timing marks wouldn't even be close. Looks like I've got to fine a way to get the dial indicator on the lifter itself.


    Last edited by Mykk; 05-22-2018 at 10:43 AM.

  17. #117
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Denver, CO, USA
    Posts
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    93 M5 88 M3 14 i3
    Enjoying watching your progress! If you need another option for gasket makers I’ve had good luck with Loctite 5910 . https://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/124/3537/=1cucyds

    -Greg


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Prescott, Az
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    439
    My Cars
    '95 540i/6
    Timing covers bolted down with hand cut gasket:



    Intercoolers cleaned up and painted:





    Still want to paint "V8" Red and "Supercharged" silver.

    Valve covers just came in:



    I need to pick up a new dial indicator and then I can degree in cams before bolting down oil feed rails & valve covers.

  19. #119
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Prescott, Az
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    439
    My Cars
    '95 540i/6
    I've measured M60B40 cam specs taken at the cam lobe using 0.00"-0.00" cam lift, not taking hydraulic lash into consideration:

    I-275°/E-270°
    I-.380" (9.65mm) lift / E-.370" (9.4mm)lift

    I'll re-take my duration measurements using 1mm/.040" cam lift values soon
    Last edited by Mykk; 05-22-2018 at 03:01 PM.

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    1,903
    My Cars
    E24, E34 x2, E36
    Hey.
    I like the red on the heat exchangers.

    Coming together nicely.
    BMW’s
    90 E34 M5
    84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
    94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
    97 Z3 2.8
    97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c


    OTHERS
    11 Audi S5 APR stg2
    19 Volkswagen Amarok V6


  21. #121
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Prescott, Az
    Posts
    439
    My Cars
    '95 540i/6
    I had a chance tonight to degree the cams.

    Found true TDC and marked it on balancer for use of aligning ignition timing later:





    Installed degree wheel on balancer, mounted some scrap aluminum to timing cover and marked TDC:



    Installed aftermarket cam timing blocks:





    Spun engine over by hand several times with dial indicator on the face of the hydraulic lifter. Measuring cam timing events at both 1mm and .1mm on Cyl #1 intake & exhaust and Cyl #6 intake & exhaust:



    I found the cylinder #1 was retard 2 degrees from cyl #6, meaning bank #1 had 2 degree cams retard compared to bank 2.





    I liked the Bank2 cam timing better the the retard bank 1, so I set crank to TDC +2 and re-set bank1 cams with timing blocks. Then verified that both bank1 and bank2 had identical cam timing.

    Here's my findings on cam timings and specs:

    @.1mm lift:
    Intake opens 12° BTDC / Intake closes 48° ABDC
    Exhaust opens 48° ABDC / Exhaust closes 12° ATDC

    240°/240° duration -108° intake centerline / 108° lobe separation

    @1mm lift:
    Intake opens 2° ATDC / Intake closes 33° ABDC
    Exhaust opens 33° BBDC / Exhaust closes 7° BTDC

    211°/206° Duration - 107.5° Intake centerline / 108.75° lobe separation


    ...here's my take-away, the .1mm duration specs lead to believe this would be a single pattern cam profile but we know the intake lobes have more lift then the exhaust. So I believe the .1mm specs paint a realistic picture of cam timing events and the intake lobes are asymmetrical with a more aggressive opening ramp as we can see with the 1mm specs.
    Last edited by Mykk; 05-30-2018 at 12:48 PM.

  22. #122
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    E24, E34 x2, E36
    Seems like it’s slowly coming together. Yes aim low then you will never be disappointed and the bottom end torque of the roots style blower will be what it’s all about. Yes it will have peak in the low to mid 4’s but it will feel substantially more.
    BMW’s
    90 E34 M5
    84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
    94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
    97 Z3 2.8
    97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c


    OTHERS
    11 Audi S5 APR stg2
    19 Volkswagen Amarok V6


  23. #123
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    Oct 2014
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    Prescott, Az
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    '95 540i/6
    Quote Originally Posted by GazM3 View Post
    ...Yes aim low then you will never be disappointed...
    That felt like a personal jab

  24. #124
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    E24, E34 x2, E36
    Lol. Quite the opposite. It’s always best to aim moderately in your head, then when it exceeds your expectations you are very happy. U may very well find it makes lots more power than you anticipate Let’s say u aim for I don’t know say 350rwhp and it makes 400rwhp you feel like u won lotto. If u think u are going to make 420rwhp and it makes 400rwhp u feel pretty disappointed

    I find the best predictor of power to be the fuel load (injector size vs pressure vs injector duty) but u have to have the car running to predict. Hope it’s up and running for you soon. I understand delays for sure it’s taken nearly 3 years to get mine to this point.
    BMW’s
    90 E34 M5
    84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
    94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
    97 Z3 2.8
    97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c


    OTHERS
    11 Audi S5 APR stg2
    19 Volkswagen Amarok V6


  25. #125
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    Oct 2014
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    Prescott, Az
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    '95 540i/6
    Unfortunately I've made the mistake of playing around with dyno sim software, which will always get your hopes up:

    Here is this M62 block/B40 heads & cams without the supercharger using the compression and cam timings I've measured on my own engine:



    And here it is with the Eaton M112 @ 8psi, 30% efficiency & 15% intercooler (again, trying to remain modest)



    I was playing around with cam timings a bit in the software and have a few ideas to experiment with.
    Last edited by Mykk; 06-10-2018 at 08:21 AM.

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