Calling all M6 owners with Euro OEM BMW Header experience

[dennisljacob]

So - calling all M6 owners with euro oem BMW headers installed. Tell me about your experience. Was it a good move? Or do you wish you didn't bother or go to the trouble of using them? Any issues with heat under the hood? AC plumbing with heat issues? How about the use with or without the oem cats? Or did you delete the cats and use another section of pipe going to the cat-back exhaust systems? Who's exhaust system did you end up using? SuperSprint? Billy Boat? Other?

I'm at the stage where I've ordered SuperSprint's section 1 for cat delete if used. Then doing the SS rear section 2 and rear muffler section 3. Though nothing is committed for at this point. I can change or not use certain parts. Right now other than a Dinan chip, I wasn't planning on other engine modifications. My car only has 63k miles on it and I hope to not need a rebuild anytime soon.

If you've made additional modifications, what did you do and do you think the euro headers helped in some way? They are a lot of dollars these days since one needs to source them from Europe. USA dealership's can't order them without jumping through hoops with a lot of certifications of the owner and the car they are going to be installed on.

Who did you purchase your headers from? Korman? Other? How recently did you buy them and if you don't mind, how much did you pay for them.

Thanks, this info will help me out in figuring what I should do next.

Dennis

[crime]

I am using SuperSprint section 2 and 3, I did not order the section 1, it was cheaper to weld it by hand. Stainless steel headers from Friedriech Motorsports - https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-...44644-223-6956

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What I did not like at SuperSprint, is that it has a high price tag, but you get an exhaust, that is made from the cheap steel 304. I did not see that, when I was ordering that SS exhaust, when it arrived I was a bit shocked.. I hoped, that it would be made of proper stainless steel, like the headers in my previous ebay link..

[FlyOverCountry]

Has anyone bought the Fridriech Motorsports headers?

[crime]

Has anyone bought the Fridriech Motorsports headers?

mate, read the post above I have Fridriech Motorsports headers combined with SuperSprint exhaust on my e24 s38

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A closer look of Fridriech Motorsports headers (half of them)
22_04_2016-1.jpg
22_04_2016-2.jpg

I would say, they are made better than the SuperSprint headers, which are twice as expensive as Fridriech Motorsports headers. I have no pictures, where the inside of the headers can be seen, but they have been welded with a gas flow inside during the welding process (the inside is smooth and has no rough edges or whatsoever)

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And as last I can mention that the Fridriech Motorsports headers are made of proper stainless steel (grade 304), while the SuperSprint headers are made of hell knows what steel and what grade. And according to pictures from SuperSprint website, I would say, that their headers are made of the cheap stainless steel grade (409), so twice the price and half the quality.

[dennisljacob]

Um Crime, sorry to bring you bad news. But SS 304 is actually the highest grade SS for exhaust systems. SS 409 is the lower quality material.

"304 Stainless is the highest quality stainless steel used in the automotive world, and it is most often found in exhaust tips, clamps, bolts and other small exhaust components where strength is very important. 304 grade stainless is tough and nearly impervious to rusting, because it has around 20% chromium and 10% nickel content in the alloy. However, because of its low ferrous content, it can develop a golden color when exposed to high heat over time. In fact, the ferrous metal content is so low that magnets won’t stick to it, making the identification of T409 and T304 very easy."

The old SuperSprint stuff wasn't SS, but they are all SS 304 these days.

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Crime, are you able to photograph the back section of the headers? I'd like to be able to see if the front half and rear half look to be the same in primary tube length. The SuperSprint's I think are not equal front to rear, where the oem BMW headers are equal length. I don't know what the oem BMW headers are made from however. But no matter which header I purchase, my plan would be to have them ceramic coated inside and out.

Do you or have you noticed any differences in underhood heat? That is one item that has been mentioned on the Forced Induction forum about uncoated headers raising the underhood temperatures. Some recommend heat tape, but I've also read that they retain moisture and cause other problems. My MZ3 is supercharged and heat soak is a very real problem to be concerned with. On the M6, the AC lines are very close to the exhaust and extra heat wouldn't help a over worked AC system in the vintage 6 series cars.

Were you able to continue using the heat shields in the engine compartment? It is rather a tight fit inside that little piece of real estate. The oem Headers are quite a bit larger than the oem NA exhaust manifolds. Where you able to use any of the oem support brackets with your headers and exhaust? I noticed that the euro M6 has different support brackets that the NA M6 does not have. I'm just trying to figure out what is going to be needed if I go down this header path.

Crime, what else have you done to your car? Exhaust cam gear? Different ECU chip? Or is it DME chip? Different rubber boots or changes to your intake side? Different throttle bodies? How do you like the SSprint exhaust system? Too loud, too quiet, or just right?

Thanks for your input. I appreciate it. Headers are a rather expensive bolt on product and addition.

[crime]

Sorry, I miswrote it SS uses steel 409, but should have used stainless steel 304, the only place, where magnets did not stick, are the muffler tips:

supersprint.jpg

You can see it from the picture, that only the tips are made from stainless steel, the rest of the mufler is steel 409 and magnets stick to it. A proper exhaust should have been made from the material, that the tips are made of, Eisenmann mufflers are made of it and magnets are not sticking to them, I guess, they are using stainless steel 304:

Weight_eisenmann_E34_m5.jpg

So, magnets wont stick to it, but will stick to supersprint

I edited my previous post too, sorry

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Ok, lol, now the funny story, why I miswrote the grades - supersprint webpage states, that their exhaust for m635 e24 is made of steel 304, lol, the only part from the exhaust made of 304 are the muffler tips, as you can see from my picture above, the rest of the muffler is made of 409 grade. When I wrote my first post here in this topic, I only looked at the supersprint webpage, so beware, they are misleading the customers, no 304 exhaust there for sure

[dennisljacob]

I won't know until my SSprint exhaust gets here, but I think SSprint have changed their materials use for the entire system now. But I will ask Turner about this and will also ask SSprint USA the same question. I'll let you know what they have to say.

Back to the use of your headers - did you notice a big change in performance? Did you do anything else to your engine besides the headers and exhaust? Are you using the Eisenmann exhaust or the SSprint exhaust on your M6?

[crime]

I hope, that everything turns out fine with your order, I mean, with the SuperSprint exhaust. I was not satisfied with their product, well I like the sound, but did not like the material it is made of. About the headers and performance - I don't know, what is the performance like with the OEM headers, because my e24 was 635csi, I took out the m30 engine and planted in the s38. Ok, well, I own an e34 m5 with the same engine, but from what it feels like, the e24 is way quicker now than the m5. About the engine and the car itself:

bore from 3535cc to 3617cc and Wiseco pistons 94,50mm, comp. ratio 12:1
Bosch EV14 670cc injectors
Bosch 044 fuel pump
OEM connecting rods with new bushings
ignition coils from m54 engine, for each cylinder
VEMS engine ECU, adjusted for super plus gasoline (e98)
equal lenght stainless steel headers
full lenght Supersprint Race exhaust
K&N air filter in OEM air filter box
SPAL electric vent. (OEM fan coupling delete)
engine oil cooler
getrag 280/5 gearbox
maybe few more things, that I missed

few more upgrades for the car:
drive shaft from e46 328i, 5 cm shortened and rebalanced
shortshifter
front axle: bolt on e31 840i front brembo 4-piston calippers, brembo brake discs, EBC yellow stuff pads, bilstein b6 dampers with AP lowered springs, BBS RS wheels 8.5J with custom ET
rear axle: OEM calippers, bosch brake discs, EBC yellow stuff pads, bilstein b6 dampers with AP lowered springs, BBS RS wheels 9.5J with custom ET
Nardi black line steering wheel, M shifting knob
OEM cluster upgrade to 300 km/h and redline 8000 rpm + engine oil temperature meter replaced the econometer

it has LSD diff 3.64 (OEM from factory)

[dennisljacob]

Apparently you have much better gas/fuel in Latvia than in the USA. I'm not sure our gas could support 12:1 comp. ratio. How long ago did you purchase the SSprint exhaust system?

It sounds like you have a really well built motor for performance. I've always wondered why no one has supercharged a M6, since it seems like a perfect candidate. Something that mantained the same normally asperated characteristics of the motorsport motor. I think there is a lot of space available for a supercharger. I've seen turbo charged M6 motors, but they just don't do a whole for me. Too much of a switch on/off response. I kind of like "polite" improvements with a M6. It's not a go racer type of car in my mind.

[crime]

I am using Neste fuel only, I think it is the best around here, well, Shell returned to Latvian market recently, I will try out their fuel next summer, but I am happy with Neste fuel quality for now.

I purchased the SuperSprint exhaust last year, I guess, it was october 2015.

I wanted to keep the originality of the car, I could build a turbo s38, with 600+ hp, but no, it is not for me and I guess, the car would loose it's general purpose - to be drivable a friend of mine had a turbo m30b35 e24 with 535hp on the flywheel, he said, you should always stay sharp, while driving it. I want to enjoy the ride, while driving my e24, not to be like on needles and hope I will not crush it, when the boost goes up so I think, that 350-400 hp e24 is enough to have the pleasure of driving but still be safe and control the car.

[dennisljacob]

"I wanted to keep the originality of the car, I could build a turbo s38, with 600+ hp, but no, it is not for me and I guess, the car would loose it's general purpose - to be drivable a friend of mine had a turbo m30b35 e24 with 535hp on the flywheel, he said, you should always stay sharp, while driving it. I want to enjoy the ride, while driving my e24, not to be like on needles and hope I will not crush it, when the boost goes up so I think, that 350-400 hp e24 is enough to have the pleasure of driving but still be safe and control the car.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I think keeping the NA performance is more fitting of the car. Turbo the 3 series cars all day. An M6 or similar is more classy than flashy. I'm trying to figure out if I want to spend the bucks for the oem BMW motorsport header, or the Supersprint header or keep the USA manifold. The first two are sexy and beautiful and fit into the "gentleman ferrari" fold that BMW first used to describe the car. Or was it the BMWCCA club that coined that phrase? Anyway the car is classy looking for sure.

Thanks for the input. Now I'm wondering if I do the header route, what else should I do? I spent a little time at Ray Korman's site and he has lots of goodies to consider. Exhaust gear swap is usually one of the first items. Then cams and perhaps intake improvements. I also need to consider which "chip" to use. Here in the USA we have Dinan, Turner/Jim Conforti and Korman also has a chip. They might all do the same thing, only slightly different. Have you changed out a ecu chip in your car? I think that might be another topic. Which chip to use??

Again thanks for sharing, Dennis

[FlyOverCountry]

Fridriech Motorsports headers ....

I'm in!!!

[dennisljacob]

I just bit the bullet and ordered euro oem BMW headers for the M635. I figured couldn't go wrong with oem and also keeping "originality" with the collector crowd. Trying to do sensible upgrades and updates while also adding to the enjoyment. I'm not going to be doing any autocrossing with the car. I'm too old these days. Too many other projects and things to do besiders working on cars. However I am considering the Miller WAR chip and MAF conversion. We will see on that one.

[euroshark]

Where did you find the OEM headers?

[dennisljacob]

Off to Germany. I went to these guys - https://www.wallothnesch.com.

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Where in Colorado are you? I lived in the Denver metro area from 1980 to 2010. I actually miss my place in Denver. Wish I had not moved actually.

[DaHose]

I installed euro headers and absolutely recommend it. However you also need an ECU upgrade to get real benefit, and you should also install the A100 Evo exhaust cam.

Yes, there is a lot more heat, and the stock heat shielding is impossible to put on with the headers. I fabricated new heat shields from expanded sheet metal. They flex, and install just fine. Ceramic coating the headers is also recommended.

If you plan to install the headers yourself, I hope you have a SERIOUS 1/4" socket set, along with a very slim 9mm wrench for the nuts. You will need to break the passenger side motor mount loose and lift/tilt the engine to get the headers in. I highly recommend removing the coolant manifold too. It took about 4 hours to finish the installation. The custom heat shields took another day.

Jose

[dennisljacob]

Euroshark, what did you think of the dealer with the goods? Great price for USA folks given the currency valuations. I have no idea what USA import fees will be though. I guess I'll find out whenever the order gets shipped.

[euroshark]

I'm still waiting for my order to be confirmed. If there's adequate interest I may be able to bring in about five sets at a somewhat discounted price.

[karmasabish]

can anyone speak to performance improvements? is it a noticeable gain?

[CaifanSC]

Sorry, I miswrote it SS uses steel 409, but should have used stainless steel 304, the only place, where magnets did not stick, are the muffler tips:

supersprint.jpg

You can see it from the picture, that only the tips are made from stainless steel, the rest of the mufler is steel 409 and magnets stick to it. A proper exhaust should have been made from the material, that the tips are made of, Eisenmann mufflers are made of it and magnets are not sticking to them, I guess, they are using stainless steel 304:

Weight_eisenmann_E34_m5.jpg

So, magnets wont stick to it, but will stick to supersprint

I edited my previous post too, sorry

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Ok, lol, now the funny story, why I miswrote the grades - supersprint webpage states, that their exhaust for m635 e24 is made of steel 304, lol, the only part from the exhaust made of 304 are the muffler tips, as you can see from my picture above, the rest of the muffler is made of 409 grade. When I wrote my first post here in this topic, I only looked at the supersprint webpage, so beware, they are misleading the customers, no 304 exhaust there for sure

has anyone actually used an Eisenmann muffler in their e24? I've always wondered what that sounds like.