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Thread: 4.4L Stroker install

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    115
    My Cars
    E36 M3/2, E39 M5, Elise

    4.4L Stroker install

    This is the former Project Fire car that I purchased two years ago. I was originally not a fan of the E92M3. I will always be a E36M3 guy (the E46M3 never grew on me and, imo, hasn't aged very well). That all changed when I saw a Lime Rock edition at a shopping mall...the Fire Orange...:thumsup: I also heard superlatives about the S65 engine, which came from the engine builder where he said that the euro S50 in race form would need a rebuild after 25 - 30 hours of racing, whereas the S65 (with the revised factory rod bearings) can go 100+ hours. It was the last naturally aspirated M3, and the only one with a V8, so I searched and picked one up. Earlier this year, I came upon an opportunity to acquire a 4.4L stroker S65 from the guy who built engines for PTG. To me, it represented an opportunity to make this car a GTS eater, where, in addition to more power, it would have a 6MT!

    The build included:
    • Marine Crankshaft billet crank for 4.4L
    • Carrillo Rods
    • CP Pistons
    • Sleeved S65 block
    • Custom cams
    • Eibach valve springs
    • Custom head work
    • Larger Bosch injectors
    • 12.5:1 compression ratio


    The only difference between this build and his typical race engine build is the lower compression ration (race spec is 13:1) and stock oil pump vs dry sump.

    I would be using a Syvecs standalone ECU.

    Pistons, rods, and wrist pins:


    Crank:


    Block waiting for internals:


    Internals installed:


    On the engine dyno:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK_xJG7Yl-c

    Final numbers:
    550HP/400 ft-lb

    The tuner uses Life Racing ECUs and mapped the engine with stock headers and race exhaust. The thought was that since Syvecs uses the Life Racing hardware inside, the map would port over and the install would be plug and play.

    Time for some prep work for the Syvecs install. All of the original wire loom tape had turned to a gooey mess:


    Replaced all of the gooey tape:


    The ECU box/tray needs to be trimmed as the Syvecs ECU will fill out the whole area, whereas the stock unit is pretty thin:


    I'm thinking, "How the hell am I going to remove that? Dremel? noo...too deep in there. Power filer?" Then I remembered that I have an oscillating tool, which made quick work of it and yielded very nice result:




    I also ran the ethernet cable to the glovebox, which allows you to plug in a laptop to interface with the ECU. I might replace with a longer cable and put the port somewhere else.


    At the shop waiting for the air conditioning refrigerant to finish evacuation:


    Engine/tranny dropped:


    Stock engine ready to be removed:


    Stroker in the box:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvgnfIwPdKw

    New engine installed with a few remaining details to button up:


    Unfortunately, it wasn't a simple plug and play deal. The engine didn't fire up at all at first, which required me to run over to the shop, connect my laptop, and have the tuner remote in to see what was up. We finally got the engine to fire up, but after all systems checks, we went for a short drive. The ECU would stop getting a signal for the O2 sensor and the tuner said that it was happening too quick before he could see what was going on. He needed the car to be on a chassis dyno with a sniffer. So the car left the shop like this:


    There were three options to get this resolved: bring the car to a local shop with a dyno and have the tuner remote in, have the tuner come up for a day, or bring the car down to the tuner in Virginia. I figured bringing the car down would be the best bet as he has all of his tools with him to do everything. Since the car was going to be trailered down and since the car was going to be remapped, that had me thinking, "Hmmm...should I look into replacing the somewhat restrictive midpipe?" Looked around at options, but the biggest factor was whether the parts were in stock and I would be able to install it before bringing the car down. I settled on Bimmerworld's tri-Y header and midpipe with high flow cats:


    The stock four to one collector inserted into Bimmerworld's header:


    You know how you sometimes see a new exhaust or some other fabricated metal part with killer TIG welds? Yeah, the header and midpipe is not one of those parts. The headers have a mix of MIG and TIG welds with the TIG welds not being the stack of dimes. I was also puzzled why each pipe wasn't welded around the entire perimeter to the flange. I was definitely slightly disappointed after dropping over $4500 on this setup. But there was more to come...

    Of course, I was kicking myself for not having the header installed while the engine was out, because it took my friend and I ten hours to do on my two post lift! Removing the factory heat shields is a huge PITA and took the longest amount of time.

    The Bimmerworld setup comes in five pieces: the left and right header, the mid pipe, and two bent pieces that slide into the mid pipe and then both slide onto the ends of the header. You can imagine our surprise when we fully inserted the angled pieces into the mid pipe and then held it up to the headers...and it was two inches too wide! The headers seemed parallel as did the two bent pieces once inserted into the mid pipe. WTF? I took out the miter saw with a cutoff disc and cut 1/2" off of each bent pipe to allow them to go further into the mid pipe. With material removed, we were still too wide by 1/4" or so. Busted out the ratchet strap to pull the ends together to allow us to get them onto the header. Again, disappointed.

    Pre-cat senors:
    The Bimmerworld header moves the pre-cat sensor to where the stock post-cat sensor used to be. Bimmerworld never says anything about these sensors as they sell you extensions for the post-cat sensors. There is a bracket that bolts onto the transmission that holds the O2 sensor connectors. In order to use the factory O2 sensors with the new setup, the passenger side connector does not get secured with the factory bracket and the connection assembly dangles. The driver side is even worse: you have to unclip the car-side harness pretty much from all clips on the brackets and are pulling against the oil level sensor:


    You can see a new sensor installed (gray wire just hanging) where the stock secure point is and the stock sensor being stretched to meet the factory harness. That's no good in my book. I spent hours researching Bosch part numbers because they don't make it easy to find the same sensor with a longer wire. But persistence pays off (I ended up realizing that I forgot to reinstall a heat shield on the passenger side that has a clip for the O2 sensor and rerouted the wire different to what you see in the second pic):



    Post-cat sensors:
    The post-cat sensors are relocated way further down toward the back of the car. They sold me a pair of extensions, but after installing the midpipe and looking at how tight everything is, I was uncomfortable with having those round plastic connectors so close to the hot exhaust. Looking at some specs, Bosch rates the plastic connectors to 105C. I think it would get way hotter than 105C 1/4" - 1/2" away from the pipes. Again, after much research, I found supposedly the same sensors with much longer cables. I also discovered that you're not supposed to or would be unable to solder the O2 wires. Bosch sells universal O2 sensor kits with what they call their SmartLink connector. It's basically a housing that holds four posi-lock connectors with wire seals to make it water-resistant. Of course, you can't buy the SmartLink connector by itself, so I had to buy two $35 universal kits. Ugh.




    You can see how tight it is and also how the passenger side sensors points to the driver side and vice versa. Each sensor has to be plugged into the side from where it came from, so either you attempt to get the wire back on its correct side near the sensor, or further upstream. With that in mind, using the Bimmerworld-supplied extension kit wouldn't have reached. I ended up ordering cable holders that I've seen while working on my E39M5's O2 sensors. Would you believe each clip is $4 now?!?




    I thought I was out of the woods, but then encountered this when reinstalling the transmission shroud/shield:



    WTF? I'm sure Bimmerworld was aiming to use the factory's post-cat sensor cutouts for their pre-cat sensors, but the sensors weren't angled up enough as well as too far forward (or back..I forget). I had to notch the stock heat shield to accommodate the sensors.

    I've brought all of this up with Bimmerworld and their response is, "We've never encountered these issues," and that's it. When I mentioned how their solution for O2 sensors was poor and that I found longer sensors, not once had they expressed even the tiniest interest.

    Here's a before (stock with Eisenmann race exhaust) and after (Bimmerworld headers/mid pipe and Capristo valved exhaust):



    Virginia bound:


    Caged Animal:


    Partial-throttle mapping:


    Full-throttle:

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seal Beach CA
    Posts
    4,279
    My Cars
    E92 M3,335i, Odyssey
    AMAZING thread!!
    What were the dyno results and what type of dyno?
    What was the problem with the ECU?

    I can't believe BW would sell such a piece of sh$t product!!
    .
    SOLD: '96 Artic Silver M3/2 Lux Click here for pic's. 2003 X5 4.6is: Nav, loading floor, comfort seats
    2007 E90 335i: Titanium Silver/Black/Aluminum trim, Sport, Premium, Heated seats (for the wife), iPOD, MORR VS7
    2011 E92 M3: Space Grey/Black/Blue aluminum trim, Premium, iDrive, DCT

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    115
    My Cars
    E36 M3/2, E39 M5, Elise
    The Dyno Dynamics chassis dyno showed 411 whp, though that manufacturer is known to read "low". I'll make it over to the local DynoJet place where I had a baseline done to compare the two. I wasn't really sure what was wrong with the Syvecs at first. The tuner remoted in to my laptop via TeamViewer, but my cell signal was weak inside the shop. There was a physical network drop in the shop, but then I wouldn't be able to connect to the Syvecs. The tuner spent quite a bit of time going through all of the menus and making changes and, at one point, said there was a problem with one of the throttle actuators (they were both brand new). We almost went through the trouble of swapping the actuators to see if the error code followed the unit, but just out of change and curiosity, I pressed the start button one last time and the engine fired up. The tuner, who is used to programming Life Racing ECUs, said that the Syvecs did something the opposite. I wish I knew more, so I could follow along, so I ended up not asking a million questions. Once we got the car off of the trailer in Virginia, he jumped in with his laptop and spent over an hour just going over things and getting it to where it ran enough to move the car around. Then came hours of dyno pulls to completely map the setup again.

    I'm currently in discussion with someone from BW. We'll see once I get the car back up on the lift and take measurements to relay back to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by aus View Post
    AMAZING thread!!
    What were the dyno results and what type of dyno?
    What was the problem with the ECU?

    I can't believe BW would sell such a piece of sh$t product!!
    .

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seal Beach CA
    Posts
    4,279
    My Cars
    E92 M3,335i, Odyssey
    Please post the DynoJet resutls. I'm curious what you put down from baseline.
    What was your baseline dyno?
    Great work.
    Thanks for sharing!
    SOLD: '96 Artic Silver M3/2 Lux Click here for pic's. 2003 X5 4.6is: Nav, loading floor, comfort seats
    2007 E90 335i: Titanium Silver/Black/Aluminum trim, Sport, Premium, Heated seats (for the wife), iPOD, MORR VS7
    2011 E92 M3: Space Grey/Black/Blue aluminum trim, Premium, iDrive, DCT

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    115
    My Cars
    E36 M3/2, E39 M5, Elise
    Photo May 24, 10 43 34 AM.jpg

    - Stock S65
    - Stock headers
    - Stock midpipe
    - Eisenmann Race exhaust

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    115
    My Cars
    E36 M3/2, E39 M5, Elise
    Photo Aug 14, 4 31 42 PM.jpg

    This was one of the final dyno runs when remapping the Syvecs ECU with the stroker. Keep in mind it's a Dyno Dynamics dyno, which is known as the heart breaker dyno. The tuner said that other clients who have had their cars tuned on his dyno and then run over to a dynojet to compare have consistently come back 16% lower. So stock on the dynojet showed 350rwhp * 1.16 = 406, which is in the ballpark of the stock engine. 411rwhp on the dyno dynamics * 1.16 * 1.16 = 553, which is close to the 550HP/400 ft lb torque when the engine was on an engine dyno stand. Whether I'm going to spend another $200 at the local dynojet shop to confirm...I know I don't have time for that now.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seal Beach CA
    Posts
    4,279
    My Cars
    E92 M3,335i, Odyssey
    GREAT gaines!!
    Most stock S65 dyno's I've seen range from 330-360HP on a Dynojet
    Either way, it's a 61HP gain
    Congrats on the whole build.

    I linked your post here on another board with more traffic: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...0#post22213790
    .
    Last edited by aus; 09-20-2017 at 02:22 AM.
    SOLD: '96 Artic Silver M3/2 Lux Click here for pic's. 2003 X5 4.6is: Nav, loading floor, comfort seats
    2007 E90 335i: Titanium Silver/Black/Aluminum trim, Sport, Premium, Heated seats (for the wife), iPOD, MORR VS7
    2011 E92 M3: Space Grey/Black/Blue aluminum trim, Premium, iDrive, DCT

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    115
    My Cars
    E36 M3/2, E39 M5, Elise
    It's more than a 61HP gain...closer to 150HP. Dyno Dynamics are known to read low and the engine on the engine dyno pushed out 550HP/400ft-lb. I'd need to get my car back on that DynoJet, but am too busy with work lately.

    Quote Originally Posted by aus View Post
    GREAT gaines!!
    Most stock S65 dyno's I've seen range from 330-360HP on a Dynojet
    Either way, it's a 61HP gain
    Congrats on the whole build.

    I linked your post here on another board with more traffic: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...0#post22213790
    .

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seal Beach CA
    Posts
    4,279
    My Cars
    E92 M3,335i, Odyssey
    That would be HUGE gains!
    SOLD: '96 Artic Silver M3/2 Lux Click here for pic's. 2003 X5 4.6is: Nav, loading floor, comfort seats
    2007 E90 335i: Titanium Silver/Black/Aluminum trim, Sport, Premium, Heated seats (for the wife), iPOD, MORR VS7
    2011 E92 M3: Space Grey/Black/Blue aluminum trim, Premium, iDrive, DCT

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SATX, USSA
    Posts
    5,586
    My Cars
    ESS 625++
    amazing build

    cams
    headers
    stroker
    syvecs

    what a beast.
    ESS 625
    RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
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    No thx Not a Pixar Fan
    Quote Originally Posted by Chester View Post
    Photo Aug 14, 4 31 42 PM.jpg

    This was one of the final dyno runs when remapping the Syvecs ECU with the stroker. Keep in mind it's a Dyno Dynamics dyno, which is known as the heart breaker dyno. The tuner said that other clients who have had their cars tuned on his dyno and then run over to a dynojet to compare have consistently come back 16% lower. So stock on the dynojet showed 350rwhp * 1.16 = 406, which is in the ballpark of the stock engine. 411rwhp on the dyno dynamics * 1.16 * 1.16 = 553, which is close to the 550HP/400 ft lb torque when the engine was on an engine dyno stand. Whether I'm going to spend another $200 at the local dynojet shop to confirm...I know I don't have time for that now.
    Your math is way off for what it’s worth. Are there other options as far as headers and x-pipe and what would you go with now? How’s the pricing for the stroked motor & do you happen to know what it would cost to install one approximately, aside from all the ecu and tuning stuff?

    Your car is like my dream spec, either that or a harrop supercharger, or both....or a stroked S85 V10 swap. What a gorgeous beast

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