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Thread: Spring Rates for TC Kline DAs

  1. #1
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    Spring Rates for TC Kline DAs

    Hey guys I picked up a used set of TC Kline Double adjustables for my E36 M3 track car and have been going back and forth about what spring rates and sizes to get. So far I have looked at hypercoil springs but would be open to swifts or any comparable brand.


    Choices are


    Front: 60mm 6" 600lb / 60mm 6" 650lb
    Rear: 60mm 6" 700 pound / 2.25" 5" 700 pound / 2.25" 5.5" 750 lb


    I would be open to any rear height adjuster to make this setup work too.


    I've done my research and the consensus seems to be that you want a 100lb difference between front and rear and that the TC Kline konis don't handle more than 700 or 750 lb springs depending on who you ask.


    What say you?
    Last edited by VRT; 08-22-2017 at 11:20 PM.

  2. #2
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    I like a 150 split myself. 650 minimum on the front so that leaves you with an 800 rear. But you know what they say about opinions

    Currently I'm running 580/650 and not liking it. I mean it's fine for 8/10's driving which is essentially what I'm doing right now since I do DE's to relax from my normal race car.

    I thought TCKline DA's handled more spring than that? Maybe with custom valving? If anyone should know, it's them.

    Don

  3. #3
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    When I bought TCK SA's, they informed me the SA's are good up to about 650-700 on the rear. But that the DA's handled more. I can't remember how much more, but it was significant. Give TCK a call.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by VRT View Post

    Choices are

    Front: 60mm 6" 600lb / 60mm 6" 650lb
    Rear: 60mm 6" 700 pound / 2.25" 5" 700 pound / 2.25" 5.5" 750 lb
    I'd run 600 front, 700 rear. I am currently running a 150 split and find the car is a little loose. You could try the 750s but I think you may find the 5.5" springs are too tall.

    For ride height adjusters, I would stay away from the GC articulating ones - by the time you get them low enough to get the rake correct (0.75") they no longer articulate. Besides that, they're a lot more difficult to install and adjust than I would have thought (IMHO).

    These specifically fit the 2.25" springs you're running - and they're only $105/pair.
    https://www.iemotorsport.com/bmw/E36...E36rspadj.html
    2002 BMW M Roaster.
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  5. #5
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    I wouldn't go above 700lbs with TC Klines. I would also go with Hypercoil springs as you mentioned. Depending on the length, they usually have one less coil. They also test all their springs when they are completed and match them together, ie. a batch of 700lbs springs all don't come out exactly 700lbs.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoMZ302 View Post
    I'd run 600 front, 700 rear. I am currently running a 150 split and find the car is a little loose. You could try the 750s but I think you may find the 5.5" springs are too tall.

    For ride height adjusters, I would stay away from the GC articulating ones - by the time you get them low enough to get the rake correct (0.75") they no longer articulate. Besides that, they're a lot more difficult to install and adjust than I would have thought (IMHO).

    These specifically fit the 2.25" springs you're running - and they're only $105/pair.
    https://www.iemotorsport.com/bmw/E36...E36rspadj.html
    Thanks for the heads up on the Ireland Engineering rear height adjusters, that's a great price and they include the top mount

    I gave TC Kline a call and they said the max spring they would run on the DAs in 700lb however they recommended 400 500 or 500 600 and explained that in their experience the higher 600 700 and up spring rates are faster with fresh Hoosiers however once the tires have a few heat cycles on them the lower rates are actually preferable. They also recommended a 28mm front bar and a stock rear bar which is contrasting to the 600 700 rates and 33 25 bars recommended to me be by Bimmerworld.

    What do you guys think about their recommended rates? I recently made the jump to entry level rcomps (maxxis RC1) and will most likely get into Hoosiers down the road but am not trying to get ahead of myself.
    Last edited by VRT; 08-23-2017 at 03:56 PM.

  7. #7
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    I am not sure whose word I would place the most weight to but one thought - are you going to drive this car on the road at all? If so, I would go with the lower spring rate.
    Last edited by E46M3Dakar; 08-23-2017 at 05:23 PM.

  8. #8
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    650 / 700 with the DA's here, I haven't tried other rates with these, but they feel good

  9. #9
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    Just to thrown in my 2c, I run 400/500 spring rate on my TCK D/A's, my car is almost exclusively a track car and I compete in Time Trial in California.

    I won all three events this year and the car is very competitive.

    Now, I run a huge (the largest) front bar GC sells along with a stock rear bar. The car does have a lot of body roll but has phenomenal amounts of grip. Body roll is not always your enemy. I think it's mainly down to driver preference tbh.

    I call TC himself to discuss my setup and he said stick with the spring rates I have. I *might* try a little stiffer end of this year as an experiment but you can't argue with results and TC has won a ton of stuff himself...

    Pics on Track showing body roll:

    35863151993_3bc28b8095_k.jpg

    36276343350_52e918d124_z.jpg

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by E46M3Dakar View Post
    I am not sure whose word I would place the most weight to but one thought - are you going to drive this car on the road at all? If so, I would go with the lower spring rate.
    It's a dedicated track car and the only street use it sees is driving to the track and back which should stop when I get my trailer setup properly

    Seems like the majority likes the 600-700 rates for these coilovers. I guess the question is has anyone driven with both those and softer springs for comparison?

  11. #11
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    I'm still working out the handling on my race car. I am using
    650f
    800r
    GC medium front bar
    GC small rear bar

    I think it's good mid corner, but I struggle getting off the corner and and fighting an odd push that seems entirely related to how much the steering wheel is turned.

    Anyway BW suggested 800/900 for me. After winning an SCCA majors with the 650/800 setup I decided to try the 800/900 setup the next day in the same tires. I personally hated it and was 3+ seconds slower.

    That said, many people are fast with 900/1000 and even more with aero.

    My next test day I will try 550/700 and I think I will reserve judgement til I try it.
    2002 BMW M Roaster.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjwilson89 View Post
    Just to thrown in my 2c, I run 400/500 spring rate on my TCK D/A's, my car is almost exclusively a track car and I compete in Time Trial in California.

    Pics on Track showing body roll:

    35863151993_3bc28b8095_k.jpg

    36276343350_52e918d124_z.jpg
    I love it. Whatever works man. I think some people think their car handles better because it leans less. The stopwatch is the ultimate judge of a track car. What you like has to factor in, but if you want to win you have to drive whatever is fast.
    2002 BMW M Roaster.
    1998 BMW 328is SCCA E Production road racer.

  13. #13
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    Setup is going to be very personal. It'll really depend on your driving style and what you like. Best bet is to try several different spring rates during a test and tune and dial in what you want.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjwilson89 View Post
    Just to thrown in my 2c, I run 400/500 spring rate on my TCK D/A's, my car is almost exclusively a track car and I compete in Time Trial in California.

    I won all three events this year and the car is very competitive.

    Now, I run a huge (the largest) front bar GC sells along with a stock rear bar. The car does have a lot of body roll but has phenomenal amounts of grip. Body roll is not always your enemy. I think it's mainly down to driver preference tbh.

    I call TC himself to discuss my setup and he said stick with the spring rates I have. I *might* try a little stiffer end of this year as an experiment but you can't argue with results and TC has won a ton of stuff himself...

    Pics on Track showing body roll:

    35863151993_3bc28b8095_k.jpg

    36276343350_52e918d124_z.jpg
    I found my car was faster and easier to drive when I switched from 350F/400R to 500F/600R on TCK singles.

  15. #15
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    I'm going from 550/650 to 750/900... Will post results.

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    I ran 450/500 with TMS swaybars on soft and i'm now running 500/600 with stock sway bars. It's odd how set TCKline is on soft rates. He swears he's fast and wins on rcomps on 450/500 all day long. He also told me 700 is about as high as he'd recommend for the shocks.

    The 500/600 + stock sways setup is too soft. Even on NT01s I get a lot of body roll and have much more outter tire wear than with the other setup. A bigger front sway bar would likely correct this, but i can't run one for classing points reasons. I think the R1-Ss i run for TTs would be happier with stiffer springs as well from what i gather. If i run these shocks next year i'll likely go to 600/700 over the winter. The car is pretty easy to drive, safe and predictable, and the balance is good, though.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXBDan View Post
    I ran 450/500 with TMS swaybars on soft and i'm now running 500/600 with stock sway bars. It's odd how set TCKline is on soft rates. He swears he's fast and wins on rcomps on 450/500 all day long. He also told me 700 is about as high as he'd recommend for the shocks.

    The 500/600 + stock sways setup is too soft. Even on NT01s I get a lot of body roll and have much more outter tire wear than with the other setup. A bigger front sway bar would likely correct this, but i can't run one for classing points reasons. I think the R1-Ss i run for TTs would be happier with stiffer springs as well from what i gather. If i run these shocks next year i'll likely go to 600/700 over the winter. The car is pretty easy to drive, safe and predictable, and the balance is good, though.
    I think it doesn't help that the NT01s want a TON of camber (due to softish sidewalls I THINK). When I switched from NT01s to Toyo RR's, I thought I might need stiffer springs and/or more camber, but the opposite was true. They wanted a touch less camber.

  18. #18
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    What camber were you using with the NT-01's?
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  19. #19
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    -3.8 ish.

  20. #20
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    I just made the jump to r comps (maxxis rc1s) which have a stiffer sidewall than the nt01s. Following that logic would I want less camber maybe -3.5ish?
    Last edited by VRT; 08-27-2017 at 09:40 AM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeronaut View Post
    -3.8 ish.
    What about the rear?
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  22. #22
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    It depends on your front/total roll stiffness too. If the car is very soft, you'll need more neg. camber. I've always run -3.5deg and it was perfect with the front swaybar, but now that i'm on a stock front swaybar, i need more neg. camber. Too much neg camber will start to compromise braking performance so you need to find the sweet spot.

  23. #23
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    ^This.

    On my E36, I've been running -2.5 rear. I have a gut feeling that may be a tad too much for ideal tire wear, but my car is so balanced, I'm afraid to F with it.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXBDan View Post
    It depends on your front/total roll stiffness too. If the car is very soft, you'll need more neg. camber. I've always run -3.5deg and it was perfect with the front swaybar, but now that i'm on a stock front swaybar, i need more neg. camber. Too much neg camber will start to compromise braking performance so you need to find the sweet spot.

    Makes sense and it sounds like I need to get a home alignment rig to dial this thing in without spending $150 every time I want to make a change.

    I haven't put the TC Klines on yet and have been running BC SA coilovers with 10k (560lb) 14k (784lb) springs and it seems to work well for an entry level setup. With the 200lb difference in springs I've been running a 27mm front bar and no rear bar along with 3.0 degrees front camber so I can drive to the track.

    Thinking 3.5 F & 2.5 R would be a good starting point assuming I either trailer or drive to the track with a set of throw away tires

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by VRT View Post
    Makes sense and it sounds like I need to get a home alignment rig to dial this thing in without spending $150 every time I want to make a change.

    I haven't put the TC Klines on yet and have been running BC SA coilovers with 10k (560lb) 14k (784lb) springs and it seems to work well for an entry level setup. With the 200lb difference in springs I've been running a 27mm front bar and no rear bar along with 3.0 degrees front camber so I can drive to the track.

    Thinking 3.5 F & 2.5 R would be a good starting point assuming I either trailer or drive to the track with a set of throw away tires
    As long as your front toe is zero'ed out you can run lots of front camber with no real wear on the highway. I've driven a bunch on NT01s with -3.5 camber. I wouldn't sweat it.

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