03 E46...Dirty oil at 3k?

**Eaglesail** · 08-21-2017, 12:10 PM

Bought car in March and changed oil-filter-Castrol 05-20 at (116.5k) changed oil- but no filter- and with Castrol again at 117.5 ....since last change, now at 120.1k, I've had to add 2/3 quart and the oil appears absolutely dirty! ..........Anyone???

**dhurley34** · 08-21-2017, 12:42 PM

One of oil's amazing properties is to clean the engine while lubricating. Its perfectly normal for conventional oil to be contaminated black at 3k. Especially not knowing the history of the oil the PO used before you bought it.

Also, 5-20 is too thin. Use 0-40 or 5-40 next time with a MANN or Mahle filter.

**Eaglesail** · 08-21-2017, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by dhurley34

One of oil's amazing properties is to clean the engine while lubricating. Its perfectly normal for conventional oil to be contaminated black at 3k. Especially not knowing the history of the oil the PO used before you bought it.

Also, 5-20 is too thin. Use 0-40 or 5-40 next time with a MANN or Mahle filter.

Thank you..I have used MANN religiously from over the years...still do. 05-20 Castrol is BMW recommendation for this e46. My concern here is that in all of my lifetime I have NEVER seen so deeply colored, worn looking, oil. Certainly never within 3 thousand miles between oil change!

Records indicate that my car, an 03 e46, was serviced.

If so, why such dirty oil...I mean REALLY dirty oil?

**dhurley34** · 08-21-2017, 02:16 PM

Where did you get info on 5-20 being recommended for that car?

With oil, color tells you nothing. Like your trans, get an oil analysis if you're concerned.

**MarcoZandrini** · 08-22-2017, 09:07 AM

That oil is WAAAAAY too thin for that engine! Go to the dealer and buy 7 quarts of the proper oil.

**dworthy** · 08-22-2017, 12:21 PM

Please read the following attached, as this is what BMW says you need to run in the car.

Now some of you yanks won't be able to run the LL-04 because it just isn't available in your area.

**Eaglesail** · 08-22-2017, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by dhurley34

Where did you get info on 5-20 being recommended for that car?

With oil, color tells you nothing. Like your trans, get an oil analysis if you're concerned.

My mistake, it is 05-30 Castrol syn I'm using, not 20 weight.

**Eaglesail** · 08-22-2017, 12:28 PM

I agree. I posted 5-20...my error. It is 5-30. So what is different about what the dealer uses for oil? ....I do use Castrol synthetic, 5-30 that is.

**dworthy** · 08-22-2017, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Eaglesail

I agree. I posted 5-20...my error. It is 5-30. So what is different about what the dealer uses for oil? ....I do use Castrol synthetic, 5-30 that is.

Well about 3 years ago it would have been the same stuff, however now BMW is using Shell as their provider for oil.

**Eaglesail** · 08-22-2017, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by dworthy

Well about 3 years ago it would have been the same stuff, however now BMW is using Shell as their provider for oil.

OK I hear you...Are all of this now including SHELL have all of us worried? I mean, and it would not apply to me and my 03 e46, but did Castrol and Shell have a fist-fight...or isn't Shell and Castrol a one-in-the-same organization...does not Shell own Castrol, Valvoline, BP, all except Exxon-mobil?

**nonturbodan** · 08-22-2017, 01:53 PM

It is possible that you have some sludge build up inside that engine. I've seen some bad enough where all you could see under the valve cover are the cam lobes, and when you pull the valve cover off there is a sludge mold of the inside of the valve cover.

Would be interesting to take a look. Your VCG is probably leaking anyway. While you're in there you can see how clean or dirty it is.

**Eaglesail** · 08-22-2017, 01:57 PM

Yea..my experience buying used 100k cars have NEVER had such the issue, maybe more 200k!

**dworthy** · 08-22-2017, 02:50 PM

There is an old shade tree trick of running ATF thru the motor to help clean the sludge out, normally it takes about a quart and an oil change. Google it and see what pops up.

**floydr** · 08-22-2017, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by dworthy

Please read the following attached, as this is what BMW says you need to run in the car.

Now some of you yanks won't be able to run the LL-04 because it just isn't available in your area.

LL04 is readily available in all parts of the USA, but definitely not recommended for anything but diesel engines. While USA diesel is ultra-low sulfur, USA gasoline is not (typically 80-200 ppm)

**floydr** · 08-22-2017, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Eaglesail

OK I hear you...Are all of this now including SHELL have all of us worried? I mean, and it would not apply to me and my 03 e46, but did Castrol and Shell have a fist-fight...or isn't Shell and Castrol a one-in-the-same organization...does not Shell own Castrol, Valvoline, BP, all except Exxon-mobil?

Shell has never owned Castrol, nor manufactured oils for them. And Shell (also known as Royal Dutch Shell) definitely does not own British Petroleum (BP).

BMW decided to go with a (cheaper? better?) supplier a year or two ago and switched to Shell for OEM oils. This has been well-documented and well covered, especially in the E9x and F3x forums.

**jclausen** · 08-22-2017, 09:40 PM

put some of the oil on to a white or light colored plastic lid then look thru the oil then you will see if it's really dirty

**Eaglesail** · 08-23-2017, 02:36 PM

Spectrographic engine oil analysis can also be performed to determine a current 'state' of condition with respect to bearing wear etc. and it will not tell you the whole story.

**90turbo1** · 08-24-2017, 09:17 AM

you can get the required oil at walmart. They sell it by jug or quart. its the castrol syntec 0w40 and it says european formula on front, also says the various MB and BMW specifications on back. Its the closest you will get to the BMW dealership 5w30

And yes the dealership 5w30 is different than castrol 5w30 syntec. i used to have the specs and data from an oil rep I talked to while at the BMW convention in Vegas.

**Eaglesail** · 08-24-2017, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by 90turbo1

you can get the required oil at walmart. They sell it by jug or quart. its the castrol syntec 0w40 and it says european formula on front, also says the various MB and BMW specifications on back. Its the closest you will get to the BMW dealership 5w30

And yes the dealership 5w30 is different than castrol 5w30 syntec. i used to have the specs and data from an oil rep I talked to while at the BMW convention in Vegas.

Yes sir, I did buy WalMart Castrol 05-30 full synthetic in the black, not gold, 5qt jug and advertised having TITANIUM something or other additives..what ever that is?

Honestly, I don't believe high-end synthetic oil offered by Mobil 1, or Valvoline, or Castrol, or Pennzoil, or any even including WalMart marketed generic synthetic motor oils are so critically different from one another other than price!

As you 90turbo1, are a professional BMW tech, please explain the differences and importances here for me to understand. ...respectfully S, aboard Eaglesail...

**dhurley34** · 08-24-2017, 05:18 PM

Oils are different between brands. Additives, viscosity at certain temperatures, pour points, flash points... all different.

**floydr** · 08-24-2017, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by Eaglesail

Yes sir, I did buy WalMart Castrol 05-30 full synthetic in the black, not gold, 5qt jug and advertised having TITANIUM something or other additives..what ever that is?

Honestly, I don't believe high-end synthetic oil offered by Mobil 1, or Valvoline, or Castrol, or Pennzoil, or any even including WalMart marketed generic synthetic motor oils are so critically different from one another other than price!

As you 90turbo1, are a professional BMW tech, please explain the differences and importances here for me to understand. ...respectfully S, aboard Eaglesail...

http://www.oilspecifications.org/bmw.php
and
http://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php

1st, read the BMW specs, noting that they're all based on the ACEA A3/B3-4 specification (in the 2nd doc.)
2nd, notice that there are significant differences between the ACEA specs.
3rd, notice that the BMW specs actually have slightly "enhanced" additive packages, specific viscosity requirements for both cold and hot temps, and other things you can put in oil. Those specs have little or nothing to do with 10W-30 and the SAE "grades", which is why the SAE and viscosity stated are useless to BMW owners. That's why most DIY'ers buy LL-01 or LL-04 (or -14) rather than pay attention to useless information (well, it's not actually useless, but you need to know a whole lot more.)

**90turbo1** · 08-25-2017, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Eaglesail

Yes sir, I did buy WalMart Castrol 05-30 full synthetic in the black, not gold, 5qt jug and advertised having TITANIUM something or other additives..what ever that is?

Honestly, I don't believe high-end synthetic oil offered by Mobil 1, or Valvoline, or Castrol, or Pennzoil, or any even including WalMart marketed generic synthetic motor oils are so critically different from one another other than price!

As you 90turbo1, are a professional BMW tech, please explain the differences and importances here for me to understand. ...respectfully S, aboard Eaglesail...

well for one thing I will say again YOU BOUGHT THE WRONG OIL!!! read what I posted. The closest oil at walmart is the "EUROPEAN" Castrol 0W40!! It is in black bottle/jug, IT SAYS EUROPEAN in bright green on front and is labled as a 0W40.....

NOT your titanium 5w30!!!!

anyhow the main difference in the BMW dealership bleded oil is the flash point. I became aware of this when I met with the oil reps at vegas convention. I simply asked about there oil, there were reps for castrol, and several other brands there promoting there "oils for european vehicles". I asked the rep why is it when I run the Dealership BMW 5w30 in my 2001 superduty ford with the v10 it barely burns any or no oil at all? He asked why I run BMW oil in my ford and I said we get it for next to nothing so why not, actually free... ha ha He stated that the additive package in the oil is different and had all sorts of charts and such for this and the FLASH POINT is much higher.... This being said a hot running engine (like Most BMW's, and possibly my truck) will not cook off the oil as easily. That is quite possible cause I have also ran regular castrol 5w30 syntec (off the shelf) and the truck will burn a quart of oil in 3000 miles. switch back to BMW oil and it stops. I can repeat this over and over.

He also told me the 5w30 that bmw uses is also on the rather thick side of the classification and is kinda inbetween a 40 weight and a 30 weight. rather interesting things. And something I didnt know a 40 weight is over twice as chemically thick as a 30 weight.

I can not count the times I read of posts on here and other sites of people running mobil 1 5w30 or castrol syntec off the shelf and have burning issues.

Also cars that run the BMW oil there whole life show little to no wear, have absolutly no sludge or oil problems. That is from 11 plus years of seing the same cars accumulate 100s of thousands of miles that always come in for dealer service. I have also seen plenty of bmws that look like a jello mold under valve cover due to not the oil inteval but the cheap ass oil they select. Pennsoil comes to mind. lots of parafin wax in that base oil.

hope that helps..

**floydr** · 08-25-2017, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by 90turbo1

... Pennsoil comes to mind. lots of parafin wax in that base oil.

So, to emphasize to Eaglesail the fact that it's best to buy the BMW LL-01 oil, and to emphasize that not all "synthetic" oils are the "same", I'll correct your statement.

Pennzoil is made by Shell, the new BMW OEM oil. The LL-01 Pennzoil is the same as the approved LL-01 Shell product (in a different bottle). That product's base is synthesized from natural gas (no base oils involved.)
http://www.shell.ae/en_ae/motorists/.../pureplus.html
http://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/educat...NhbGU9ZW5fdXM=

There's a lot of nonsense out there on "base oils", PAO, Group V, Group IV, esters, etc. Most of it is nonsense: older BMW OEM oils (Castrol) were made with the the derisive "not-really-synthetic" technology, but seemed to work just fine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

**90turbo1** · 08-25-2017, 11:19 AM

ok i was refering to the oil the jiffy lubes and fast change places around the dealership i worked would use. most advertised pennsoil. and for whst ever reason we would see the jello mold wax creations under valve covers. most of those cars were getting changed with not synthetic pennzoil or what ever brand.

**floydr** · 08-25-2017, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by 90turbo1

ok i was refering to the oil the jiffy lubes and fast change places around the dealership i worked would use. most advertised pennsoil. and for whst ever reason we would see the jello mold wax creations under valve covers. most of those cars were getting changed with not synthetic pennzoil or what ever brand.

Yeah, I hear you. A couple years ago (before the new Helix became BMW's OEM) I checked the JiffyLube that's a block from our condo. They actually have the correct LL-04 oil for my 335d - although they had to search around for it. You have to be extremely careful at those places to get the correct oil and filter - but then even BMW dealer service has been known to put LL-01 oil into a diesel engine. And even then they try to sell you a $75 air filter that really costs only $25. Bozos.