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Thread: RIP? Hope NOT but MAYBE

  1. #1
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    RIP? Hope NOT but MAYBE

    86' 325ES 225K -

    Have had her since 1986 and have put every mile and $ into her ... over the weekend - not sure yet what failed - but she overheated and ended up spewing oil smoke out all 4 sides of the valve cover and due to the overheat would not start... put her in the garage to decide what to do next - ...

    looking for suggestions:

    how can I tell if the head is warped or if just the valve cover gasket has failed? when I saw it it appeared that oil smoke was coming from very close or out the spark plugs... assumed it was above them but may have been just below - too thick to tell ...

    there is no water in the oil pan from what I can tell from the dipstick..and there is still oil in there

    if it is the head - thoughts on where to buy replacement - assuming the junk yard is not a good option ...
    how can I tell if there was any damage to the rods or pistons ...

    Do I replace the rods, springs, and lifters at the same time or buy them with the head?

    or is it time to part her out for the items that are usable?? last resort


    looking for thoughts

  2. #2
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    If the oil looks ok, the bottom end is normally fine. Do a compression test / leakdown. If it fails that, you may get lucky with a headgasket or you may have a cracked head. Neither one are a big deal.

  3. #3
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    An over heat is typically a warp at a minimum. I'd do the tests e30oe21 suggests then take the head to a machine shop to see what it needs. Obviously, you want to figure out if the over heat was caused by a blown head gasket or something else.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffnhiscars View Post
    An over heat is typically a warp at a minimum. I'd do the tests e30oe21 suggests then take the head to a machine shop to see what it needs. Obviously, you want to figure out if the over heat was caused by a blown head gasket or something else.
    Keep it in mind ,if you find after a tear down there are too many other issues ,that you can buy or even be given another complete engine for next to nothing ,I just obtained one for under 100.00 only 10 miles from me.You would not want to part out a perfectly good car that someone else might enjoy and you would just make my car more valueable!

  5. #5
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    I mean, blowing a head gasket on an eta has to be looked at as an opportunity, really.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nick325xit 5spd View Post
    I mean, blowing a head gasket on an eta has to be looked at as an opportunity, really.
    It's true. The car is basically asking for something more exciting, even if it's a racier M20.
    Interested in vintage cars? Ever thought about racing one?
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by elva164 View Post
    it's true. The car is basically asking for something more exciting, even if it's a racier m20.
    so whats the suggestions from them that know .. If i pull this head off and its warped or cracked - what would be recommended to replace it ... I am not racing just doing my thing a couple times a week as 3rd car with it ...and using it for bullpen duty ...

    Regrds

  8. #8
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    There is also always an M52/S50/S52 transplant option.


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  9. #9
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    If you want to go the hands-off route, you could look into the M20 engines Metric Mechanic puts together. They'll drop right in for the most part, with some small changes required for the cylinder head.
    Interested in vintage cars? Ever thought about racing one?
    Info, photos, videos, and more can be found at www.michaelsvintageracing.com!


    Elva Courier build thread here!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by VINNIE86 View Post
    so whats the suggestions from them that know .. If i pull this head off and its warped or cracked - what would be recommended to replace it ... I am not racing just doing my thing a couple times a week as 3rd car with it ...and using it for bullpen duty ...

    Regrds
    If you pull the head, you should rebuild it with an i cam and valve springs and enjoy an extra 40hp or so. If the head is trashed, buy another M20 head and do the same. I'd expect that the block is fine.
    2011 M3 Sedan
    2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD LBZ
    1999 323i GTS2
    1995 M3 - S50B32/S6S420G/3.91
    1990 325is
    1989 M3 - S54B32/GS6-37BZ

    Hers: 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo
    Hers: 1989 325iX


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by nick325xit 5spd View Post
    If you pull the head, you should rebuild it with an i cam and valve springs and enjoy an extra 40hp or so. If the head is trashed, buy another M20 head and do the same. I'd expect that the block is fine.
    The 885 head is a completely different casting, isn't it? Porting, valve size, and such?
    Interested in vintage cars? Ever thought about racing one?
    Info, photos, videos, and more can be found at www.michaelsvintageracing.com!


    Elva Courier build thread here!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVA164 View Post
    The 885 head is a completely different casting, isn't it? Porting, valve size, and such?
    You can either just swap an 885 head on for a low compression stroker, or IIRC, you can modify the head (cam/valve springs/cam bearings) for a higher compression, but worse flowing setup.

    Or just buy a good M20 i motor dropout. That's probably actually cheaper than even rebuilding the head.
    2011 M3 Sedan
    2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD LBZ
    1999 323i GTS2
    1995 M3 - S50B32/S6S420G/3.91
    1990 325is
    1989 M3 - S54B32/GS6-37BZ

    Hers: 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo
    Hers: 1989 325iX


  13. #13
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    RIP Hope NOT but MAYBE

    18 shipping.Not a deal-breaker if it goes for less than about 75... but you can get the same kit new shipped from some places for around 100, so it bears consideration.

  14. #14
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    You're not going to turn an eta in to an I with a cam swap. You still have way smaller ports, valves that are 2mm smaller and motronic 1.0. The valve spring upgrade tomdual I think is really for the 1.1/1.3 swap which raises your redline, which also requires boring the extra tower lube holes in the 200

    i do agree that there are more interesting options besides replacing a trashed 200 head with another 200 but without a motronic swap you are leaving way too much potential on the table. An 885 is low hanging fruit since they are abundant, reasonable and you get good FI potential and for something more esoteric (and ideal for NA on an eta) do a 731.
    Last edited by Jeffnhiscars; 08-23-2017 at 08:16 AM.
    87 Zinno Cabrio 98k Barn Find. Build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=268987
    87 Lachsilber ETA Time Capsule. bought w 125k from 87yo original owner

    Cabrio deck lid & hinge struts (w sleeves) now for sale. See the link below for more info

    New "made in Europe" seat shocks. PM for details
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ot-Seat-Shocks

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffnhiscars View Post
    You're not going to turn an eta in to an I with a cam swap. You still have way smaller ports, valves that are 2mm smaller and motronic 1.0. The valve spring upgrade tomdual I think is really for the 1.1/1.3 swap which raises your redline, which also requires boring the extra tower lube holes in the 200

    i do agree that there are more interesting options besides replacing a trashed 200 head with another 200 but without a motronic swap you are leaving way too much potential on the table. An 885 is low hanging fruit since they are abundant, reasonable and you get good FI potential and for something more esoteric (and ideal for NA on an eta) do a 731.

    JUST TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL THE COMMENTS BUT FOR A GUY WHO IS GOOD WITH A WRENCH BUT IS NOT INTIMATE WITH SOME OF THE LANGUAGE I NEED SOME INTERPRETATION ...

    How do I specify a M20 "I" HEAD vs the std "200" head when i go to find one ... and where do I look to find these units...such as a "885" or is there a "731" that gives me better power for the same basic price...

    remember this is a daily driver to from work 3 days a week - not a show or track car ... but enhancements that make sense I would like to do if reasonable ... I was quoted for a magnaflux check ($90) and if all good a complete head rebuild by an indy machine shop in Plano Tx. $1200...which would prob be $1K after I negotiate it ...

    but if i can buy a 885 or 731 and plug and play with better performance - then lets go...if I have to spend anther $1000 on top of teh head purchase just to get some addl perf - i may be better with the 200 head ...

    just saying - looking for thoughts...

    i think finding a M20 I motor dropout would be great - where do I look???
    BTW loading pix of the head oil line below the exhaust ports and I believe the Freeze plug that released ...will need help on that also since I think it will need to be removed and replaced - is that another topic altogether???

    Pix may be upside down ... oil line is below exh ports and above the freeze plugs ...one freeze plug released I believe ... not sure what to do about that yet ...

    regards
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by VINNIE86; 08-23-2017 at 04:59 PM. Reason: added freeze plug and pix

  16. #16
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    OK so I found some what of the smoking gun residue... when the car blew the tire and wheel into a barrier - motor must have lurched forward and caused the fan to crush a nice pattern on the radiator which seems to have impeded the flow enough to cause the overheat and issues. Pulled the radiator and water pump etc and the radiator is the only issue so far. The water pump is turning like new - no issues - the radiator showed no leakage but will replace that anyway ... removed valve cover and did a quick straight edge check with no warpage on the head up top - or at least that I can tell - with that said I cant tell if the oil smoke started from above the spark plugs - cover gasket leak - or below at the head gasket - onto the exhaust manifold or hot block ...I did find oil and water mix - not a lot but enough to notice - inside the Throttle body area (inside the intake duct from the MAF) plus inside the input manifold once I removed the fuel cold air apparatus... nothing appears to be broken or damaged on/inside the HEAD...no residue of water just oil ...but the intake manifold water/oil residue baffles me how it got there ...

    So here is where I am at:
    1) how did the water / oil get into the intake manifold ???
    2) I am at the point the where I need to pull the intake manifold and get the head off for checking it but wanted some direction - best resource for that ???
    3) still need some idea what the difference or what I am looking for in an "I" cam HEAD vs the 200 std Head if I wanted to replace it - what do I look for PN wise or year and model wise?


    thanks for all responses...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by VINNIE86 View Post
    JUST TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL THE COMMENTS BUT FOR A GUY WHO IS GOOD WITH A WRENCH BUT IS NOT INTIMATE WITH SOME OF THE LANGUAGE I NEED SOME INTERPRETATION ...

    How do I specify a M20 "I" HEAD vs the std "200" head when i go to find one ... and where do I look to find these units...such as a "885" or is there a "731" that gives me better power for the same basic price...

    remember this is a daily driver to from work 3 days a week - not a show or track car ... but enhancements that make sense I would like to do if reasonable ... I was quoted for a magnaflux check ($90) and if all good a complete head rebuild by an indy machine shop in Plano Tx. $1200...which would prob be $1K after I negotiate it ...

    but if i can buy a 885 or 731 and plug and play with better performance - then lets go...if I have to spend anther $1000 on top of teh head purchase just to get some addl perf - i may be better with the 200 head ...

    just saying - looking for thoughts...

    i think finding a M20 I motor dropout would be great - where do I look???
    BTW loading pix of the head oil line below the exhaust ports and I believe the Freeze plug that released ...will need help on that also since I think it will need to be removed and replaced - is that another topic altogether???

    Pix may be upside down ... oil line is below exh ports and above the freeze plugs ...one freeze plug released I believe ... not sure what to do about that yet ...

    regards
    Just saw your in the DFW area. Pick n pull dallas south central has two e30 325i convertibles. One is red and has 86k! miles. It would be an excellent donor car.

    Red car: http://row52.com/Vehicle/Index/WBABB2308K8863298

    Black car: http://row52.com/Vehicle/Index/WBABB2306H1942163

    Prices aren't horrible either. I am assuming it would be Engine F-Inj W/Access - Engine, fuel injected, with accessories.
    engine.PNG
    Last edited by Thecatmilton; 10-10-2017 at 10:02 PM.

  18. #18
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    Thanks will check them out this week

    what should I expect as an install difference from the different model engine or where can I look to have an idea of the differences?
    how about transmission or computer? Do I need to change them?

    thanks

  19. #19
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    I assume the computer will need to be changed. You can leave the harness on the engine when you pull it. It disconnects from the computer and pulls through the firewall. Then it also unplugs by the fuse box. I would take the computer too if its still there.

    Is it an automatic or manual transmission?
    Last edited by Thecatmilton; 10-11-2017 at 01:04 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thecatmilton View Post
    I assume the computer will need to be changed. You can leave the harness on the engine when you pull it. It disconnects from the computer and pulls through the firewall. Then it also unplugs by the fuse box. I would take the computer too if its still there.

    Is it an automatic or manual transmission?
    Manual 5 spd

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by VINNIE86 View Post
    Manual 5 spd
    The rest of the drivetrain should be compatible then. The red car is an automatic, but you have all the manual trans parts anyways. You are good to go now.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thecatmilton View Post
    I assume the computer will need to be changed. You can leave the harness on the engine when you pull it. It disconnects from the computer and pulls through the firewall. Then it also unplugs by the fuse box. I would take the computer too if its still there.

    Is it an automatic or manual transmission?
    5 spd manual

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by VINNIE86 View Post
    5 spd manual
    Any updates? You should get the engine soon before too many parts are removed or before the car is scrapped.

  24. #24
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    No e30s, again :(
    also, there are a number of people selling complete m20b25 on craigslist. check Austin, san Antonio, and Houston. price ranges are from 300-800
    No e30s again.

  25. #25
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    Another e30 showed up at pick n pull dallas west today! Its a 325e too!

    http://row52.com/Vehicle/Index/WBAAB6402H1687576

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