Sap issue

[Bilito]

Does any one know where the relay for the SAP and SAP solenoid valve is located?

This is my fuse panel
IMG_0016.jpg

[rf900rkw]

You really need to say what year and engine. Assuming it's a '97 6cyl, it is in the E-box along with the DME relays. The vacuum solenoid valve is under the intake.

[Bilito]

It is a 1997 2.8 5 Speed Convertible
When you say e-box and DME, you lost me. I am assuming you mean the fuse box, I am an old pilot and to me DME means distance measuring equipment.
I found the vacuum solenoid, it is working perfect, the vacuum valve is also working, the SAP was working and putting out a lot of air, now none of that is working and in my troubleshooting I came across a tip thing that said to check the SAP relay, but I do not know where it is. The tip thing I was looking at showed the relay next to the fuse box and covered in a black rubber cover and I do not see anything like that at all. Also I do not see any fuse marked secondary air.
In the photo there is 11 relays and only two are marked and they are ABS and ASC I have no idea what the rest control.
Sorry to make such a long post but i wanted to get it all out

[rf900rkw]

It's all standard BMW terminology.

DME = Digital Motor Electronics, or something close in German. The PCM/CPU,ECM, and whatever other off the wall TLA people come up with.

E-box, The box holding all of the powertrain related electronics. for your car, it's in the right rear corner of the engine bay.


Understand that a Z3 is not a Z3 is not a Z3. Every model, every engine, has it's own layout. Some things stay the same, others change drasticly. The air pump relay is mounted on the side of the fuse block on the 4 cyl models. Factory wiring diagrams are readily available for these cars, a google search should turn them up. Only accept the factory diagrams. Bentley manuals and such are not accurate.

There is no fuse for the pump.

[Bilito]

Wow thanks for that info, you have cleared up quite a few things for me
I printed out a build sheet from a website that asked for your last 7 digits and it said mine is a roadster with a development code of E36 and my engine is a 6 cylinder M52.
In the right rear corner of my engine bay is the SAP pump and a box just in front of that with 3 relays picture attached below, can you tell from that which is the SAP relay??
IMG_0017.jpg

[rf900rkw]

From the factory diagram



e-box.jpg

[Bilito]

Thank you, your photo is exactly what I see when I look there

[Bilito]

I Removed the intake air tube diffuser tube off the secondary air pump, I though there might be a sponge type ilter in that, I was wrong, then I took a closer look at the port it was attached to and I see what appears to be a paper cartridge filter in there.????? What to do, I have a manual and it mentions nothing about a filter, but it does make sense to have one.
Does anyone have any information about this filter.

I don't know why but two of the pictures posted wrong side up

IMG_0029.jpgIMG_0030.jpgIMG_0031.jpg

[rf900rkw]

What, exactly, are you trying to fix?

[Bilito]

The sap pump does not start all of a sudden.
I'm still trying to figure out which is the SAP relay and I was looking at that pump and started to wonder if there was a filter in there somewhere. From your picture you posted of the E box relays you show a K6304 as the SAP relay (Salmon in Color), but I have no relay in the spot shown on that picture but I came across another sketch this morning which shows a K6304 relay in the fuse Box.
I was wondering what was what, relay wise, when the Pump attracted my attention. I have googled SAP filter and found nothing, I reached my finger in that hole and sure enough that is a paper filter in there

I googled BMW Z3 SAP relay and this picture popped up immediately

395645.jpg

[rf900rkw]

Like I said, every version of the Z3 is different. Pulling in pictures of an E36 sedan fuse box like that is not going to help. At all. The picture I posted is not mine. It is straight from the factory wiring diagram for a 97 6cyl Z3. 4cyl are different. 98 is different. Are you sure it's a 97, VIN code V?



Just sticking with the 6cyl models.


1998





1999

99-sap.jpg

[mpire]

The SAP only runs when the car is cold.

Do you have 12v on the plug when you start the car first thing in the morning?

You can just put in a bypass if you don't want to deal with it.

[Bilito]

I did everything I was told to do, I went to Google and I typed in 1997 BMW Z3 2.8 Secondary Air Relay and the first diagram to come up is one I posted, here ia another picture of what I have taken from same spot as yours and I hope you see my confusion, the relay in mine is not the salmon colored one it is pink and my layout is different then your 1997 manual layout

Don't know why but the website turned the photo again and I cannot figure how to turn it right way around, twist your hear to look at it..In the space to the right of the pink relay there is not even a socket to plug a relay into. Like you said they are all different.

IMG_0035.jpg

[Vintage42]

... Don't know why but the website turned the photo again and I cannot figure how to turn it right way around, twist your hear to look at it...

Drag it out onto your desktop, double click to open it with your systems preview application, and use the app to rotate it.

[Bilito]

The picture is correct in my photos file. Please go up and check the pictures I posted this morning at 11:05 They are all correct in my pictures file but the forum system turned two of them around, I think that is strange.
I am trying to determine exactly which relay is the sap relay, the sap is not getting power and running, but if I connect 12V to the pump connecter it runs, same with the solenoid, so in my thinking a relay is not sending power to the sap or the Vacuum solenoid in the sap system, OR, the Computer on the car is not telling a relay to activate. (I forgot the name or initials for that thing) every manufacturer calls them something different.

The solenoids in the E box on my car seem to different then the three pictures that rf100rkw posted and mine is a 97 (VLC024939)

[Bilito]

It's a Miracle!! Just started the Z3 and quickly went to check the sap, It was running, pulled the vac hose off the vac valve and there was suction there so the valve must have been open because when I removed the vac hose there was a big angry noise from the pump, put the hose back on and the noise went away.
The Main Problem is still there, the car runs very rough until the SAP turns off which takes exactly two minutes, then it is a smooth as glass
BTW there is no hissing sound a vacuum leak normally makes.

What can be causing that rough running, where do I look, I see other people are having similar issues, but I have not seen a cure yet, some one must know exactly where to look, and I noticed the check engine light has come back on. I am goona run over to Pep boys after breakfast and get them to read the codes.

I am also gonna post this on the Bimmerfest site hoping some one can figure this out for me

[rf900rkw]

It takes a very specific set of conditions for the computer to turn on the pump. Too hot, too cold, etc, and no pump. Has it been below freezing there lately, maybe?

[Bilito]

The coldest it has been here lately was down to the hi seventies early in the morning, perhaps me unplugging and plugging connectors and cleaning those valves and the solenoid had something to do with it suddenly running.

Anyway Just got back from Pep boys and I have no SAP codes at all
but I do have these two codes

P0170 which is fuel trim and I have no idea how to fix that at this time

P1128 I can find no info on this code anywhere. I guess someone here will know what that is

[rf900rkw]

P1188 maybe? If so, it's directly related to the P0170. Vacuum leak. Look closely at the bellows between the air filter and the throttle. They crack and tear with age, and will set these codes.

[Bilito]

OK I will do that, If I remove that bellows will I also be able to get at and remove the ICV for cleaning? I have the smallest hardly noticeable loping at idle when warmed up, the tach does not even move but I started to feel it when waiting in the drive thru line at the bank the other day, I was next in line and I turned the radio off and put it in Neutral and there it was, ever so slight.
I read somewhere this can be caused by a dirty ICV which is why I want to remove and clean it,

[rf900rkw]

Removing the boot is merely the first step of accessing the "ICV" (correctly named the IAC). However, the IAC can not cause your loping. Can not. More likely the vacuum leak you seek is the root of the lope.

[Bilito]

From staring at it, it appears that once I get that bellows off I should able to check most of the vacuum lines under there

I cannot help but wonder what I did to make that SAP system suddenly come alive

[nevan]

I would recommend testing throughly with muliti-meter in this situation...

From staring at it, it appears that once I get that bellows off I should able to check most of the vacuum lines under there

I cannot help but wonder what I did to make that SAP system suddenly come alive

[Bilito]

How would a multi meter help find a vacuum leak

[nevan]

How would a multi meter help find a vacuum leak

Sorry for the confusion; my comment was intended for the intermittent SAP issue. Obviously, not the vacuum leak.