Low oil pressure & engine damage?

[Rick456]

Yesterday I took my 2013 328i to the dealer for an oil change. On my way home, I received a warning that my car had low oil pressure, and to stop my car immediately to avoid engine damage. I pulled off the road, and had the car towed to the dealer. When the car was moved by the tow, you could see a puddle of oil, which continued to leak as it was being loaded.

The dealer tells me that the gasket on the oil filter was sliced as it was being installed, eventually causing the gasket to shred and leak oil. The dealer tells me the situation is not ideal, but due to the location of the oil filter I only lost a little oil. (suggesting no damage).

I'm still not comfortable, and have insisted on a diagnostic test. Considering it's under warranty, does the dealer have any reason to conceal the cause and extent of damage?

Any truth to a car being fine under these circumstances?

If the life of the engine has been shortened, will a diagnostic test discover this?

[MauiM3Mania]

Moved from General BMW sub-forum.

[02Pilot]

If it were me, I would demand an oil sample and send it to independent lab for analysis (results sent to you, not the dealer). Any sign of higher than normal metals indicating wear and I'd be pushing for a new engine. If you shut it down immediately you're probably OK, but it's their fault, so best to be as certain as possible. Any push-back, go straight to BMW NA.

[Rick456]

If it were me, I would demand an oil sample and send it to independent lab for analysis (results sent to you, not the dealer). Any sign of higher than normal metals indicating wear and I'd be pushing for a new engine. If you shut it down immediately you're probably OK, but it's their fault, so best to be as certain as possible. Any push-back, go straight to BMW NA.

Thanks for the suggestion on the independent eval and bmw NA. As for requesting a sample, the dealer has already refilled with new oil. Would metal still be present?

[02Pilot]

Not until you drive it some, and even then it's not ideal. Granted, nothing will be 100% definitive in this situation, but at this point I would advise them you are going to drive the car for some not-too-long distance (~1000 miles, less than the usual OCI) and send the oil for analysis. Document everything. Keep a sample of the oil beyond what you send, maintain a clear chain of evidence. Advise the analysis lab of the situation so they know what they're dealing with. If wear metals show up in higher than normal quantities, tell the dealer up front you intend to request a replacement engine.

[328 Power 04]

If you stopped pretty much immediately when the car told you low oil pressure, I don't see how there could be damage. The sensor is always mounted in the pressurized tract right after the pump.

[02Pilot]

If you stopped pretty much immediately when the car told you low oil pressure, I don't see how there could be damage. The sensor is always mounted in the pressurized tract right after the pump.

Agreed, but I've seen quite a bit of variance in people's definitions of "immediately," as in "yeah, I pulled off immediately at the next exit (which was four miles down the road)". And if the motor spins a bearing 20k miles down the line, I've got a feeling the OP is going to be SOL, especially without documentation.

[bmwdirtracer]

I agree that if the engine was shut off immediately, there's likely no damage. The rule I told my (ex)wife was: If you ever see the red oil warning light, you shut off the engine NOW, whatever speed you're going, and THEN look for somewhere to stop.

However, the dealership has lied to you. You did not "just lose a little oil because of where the filter is located". That is BS. The oil pressure sensor reads the pressure right after the oil leaves the pump, as Abel pointed out. Therefore, the oil pickup - and the pump - ran dry, and pumped air instead of oil. And that's why the warning went off.

You're in a tough spot here -- you may have to take the dealership to court. I'm not so sure that BMW NA is going to step in for you, but it's certainly worth trying. This will also lend more documentation to your claim.

Get the car to a good BMW independent shop, and have them put the car on a lift, remove all the underpanels, and allow you to take a bunch of pictures of the huge oil mess you're going to find. Also have them quickly remove the oil filter housing cap, and have a turkey baster or big syringe ready to capture a couple ounces of oil. Put it in a plastic, tight sealing sample bottle, and send it to Blackstone Labs for testing, along with the story you've told us.

[Rick456]

I agree that if the engine was shut off immediately, there's likely no damage. The rule I told my (ex)wife was: If you ever see the red oil warning light, you shut off the engine NOW, whatever speed you're going, and THEN look for somewhere to stop.

However, the dealership has lied to you. You did not "just lose a little oil because of where the filter is located". That is BS. The oil pressure sensor reads the pressure right after the oil leaves the pump, as Abel pointed out. Therefore, the oil pickup - and the pump - ran dry, and pumped air instead of oil. And that's why the warning went off.

You're in a tough spot here -- you may have to take the dealership to court. I'm not so sure that BMW NA is going to step in for you, but it's certainly worth trying. This will also lend more documentation to your claim.

Get the car to a good BMW independent shop, and have them put the car on a lift, remove all the underpanels, and allow you to take a bunch of pictures of the huge oil mess you're going to find. Also have them quickly remove the oil filter housing cap, and have a turkey baster or big syringe ready to capture a couple ounces of oil. Put it in a plastic, tight sealing sample bottle, and send it to Blackstone Labs for testing, along with the story you've told us.

I had the car taken to the dealership following the breakdown. I'm assuming they've already flushed the system with new oil. If my assumption is correct, will there still be evidence of damage?

[bmwdirtracer]

I'd tend to think that they just replaced the filter and o-ring, and drained the pan so that they knew how much to put in. No matter what that would have still left, say, half a pint or more in the system. If there's excess metal, Blackstone Labs can find it. And pictures of the almost certainly oil-soaked underside will bolster your argument that it wasn't "just a little oil" that leaked out.

[Rick456]

This is the mess that was left behind:

[MauiM3Mania]

You're looking for materials from the initial incident as well as any metals that has appeared since. IOW, if there was damage it will continue to be generated and show even if they flushed the system.

Scott the Mod <--- Oil Testing Lab Tech from Way Back

[WadiM3]

OMG Scott The Mod!!! Was you really an oil lab Tech? I thought you was just a cool photographer with some cool cars being our cool mod!

[Rick456]

I just spoke with the dealer, and was told the O-ring was "pinched & cut" during installation. (Sounds to me they didn't coat it with oil before installing.) Supposedly the car has been through diagnostic testing, has been driven, and everything is Ok. (Apparently they could tell the sensor threw the code 1 time.) I failed to mention in my original post this car is still on its CPO warranty, which expires in 30k more miles/ or Dec. 2018. I'm told no extended warranty is offered beyond that, however, all documentation and the O-ring will be given to me in the event there's ever a related issue (presumably beyond the warranty period). This barely makes me feel anymore comfortable.

At this point I can't say I've been harmed any, although I certainly don't feel good about what's happened. I think my only option is to follow-up with blackstone labs after a while and see what they say.

[bmwdirtracer]

As several guys have said, Rick, I really don't think there's going to be any damage. I'm only upset because they lied to you. Wish I could see your pictures, to see if they at least cleaned up the damned mess.

If I made a mistake like this, I'd be horribly embarrassed, and that car would be spotless, underneath, when I sent it home. In fact, your post will remain in my mind, hopefully forever. I had to do two oil changes today, along with a bunch of other work. When I was done, I started each car, then got out and looked for leaks - on top, and on the bottom. I plan to make this part of my S.O.P., because I never want to feel guilty for a mistake of this type. It hasn't happened to me yet, and I want to keep it that way.

Mistakes DO happen....I'm glad I'm not a doctor.

All that said, I do highly recommend that you follow through with the Blackstone Labs testing, and keep all your documentation.

It seems that the dealership is acting honorably in providing the documentation for future reference, and I'd certainly expect that IF there is any damage at all, you'll see it with a couple of oil tests, long before your warranty runs out.

[ross1]

If you stopped pretty much immediately when the car told you low oil pressure, I don't see how there could be damage. The sensor is always mounted in the pressurized tract right after the pump.

IF being the operative word here.
If the car shows no signs of damage(engine noise, etc) I'd not worry much. Tearing into the oil filter in place at the time this happened will reveal bearing material if the engine went un-lubricated long enough for damage to occur. If bearing material or other metal present you have an issue that needs addressing.
Only you know how long it was run and how hard with diminished oiling, if it was truly shut down immediately I'd not worry any.
Tell the dealer they need a new oil change bitch.