FI Standalone Options

[NY98M3]

What are our options for PnP standalone OBDII ECUs for our platforms?

Im aware the MS3 PnP is coming out soon but always want to see what else is out there. I need the PnP option so I can swap back over to the factory DME to pass NYS inspection every year.

Any help would be appricated!

[chikinhed]

I need the PnP option so I can swap back over to the factory DME to pass NYS inspection every year.

And to take a break from pretending that I'm a tuner.

[Driiven]

what is there to gain from going standalone? IMO it is just adding complexity with no real benefit unless you enjoy your car being down more than driven

[SamGrant951]

You should send this guy an email: https://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche/

Its mostly Porsches but I know he has done BMW applications, my 944 turbo is running Vems (via him - comes with factory connectors ready to connect) and I can swap back to a factory DME in minutes if one so desires. Maybe there are others also doing this kind of PnP kit in the States - not sure.

[wgknestrick]

I highly discourage this solution for you, speaking from personal experience with my STI. I had the premier standalone ECU and tuner handle that car too. A standalone is a total PITA for anything other than a fully dedicated race car. What you are wanting will actually be worse off than the current remapped OEM ECUs. I have a TT stage2 M3 that I purchased and the daily drivability of that thing is damn near OEM, ie perfect. I don't see why you'd want a standalone when the stock ECU is perfectly capable of handling a turbo setup (mine has zero codes too). There are just way too many variables to tune correctly on a standalone and most tuners just aren't qualified to handle them IMO.....even the "best". It's not like the E36 platform requires a standalone (due to crappy OEM ECUs like Supras), or that it has years of map/table development to perfect everything (like Supras).

The things you take for granted (perfect cold starts, quick crank starts, consistency over all temperatures, lift throttle behavior, optimized fuel econ, etc) usually take years of constant tweaking to perfect on a standalone. Just the fact that you want to swap back to OEM ECU for inspection, tells me you are pursuing the wrong path. Trust me, that gets old real quick and isn't good for your car driving on a mismatched tune long enough to set the readiness flags. You will ruin your car and will soon be selling it if you go this route IMO. I know this because I've done it and was in your same mindset at one time. Having the knowledge to scientifically diagnose every last fueling condition and figuring out what fueling compensation table is causing your problems is like playing whack-a-mole. You think you fixed some problem, but then the conditions change slightly and you have 2 more now to solve. Rinse and repeat, or keep paying a tuner $250/hr to do the same thing 5 times.

[wazzu70]

I highly discourage this solution for you, speaking from personal experience with my STI. I had the premier standalone ECU and tuner handle that car too. A standalone is a total PITA for anything other than a fully dedicated race car. What you are wanting will actually be worse off than the current remapped OEM ECUs. I have a TT stage2 M3 that I purchased and the daily drivability of that thing is damn near OEM, ie perfect. I don't see why you'd want a standalone when the stock ECU is perfectly capable of handling a turbo setup (mine has zero codes too). There are just way too many variables to tune correctly on a standalone and most tuners just aren't qualified to handle them IMO.....even the "best". It's not like the E36 platform requires a standalone (due to crappy OEM ECUs like Supras), or that it has years of map/table development to perfect everything (like Supras).

The things you take for granted (perfect cold starts, quick crank starts, consistency over all temperatures, lift throttle behavior, optimized fuel econ, etc) usually take years of constant tweaking to perfect on a standalone. Just the fact that you want to swap back to OEM ECU for inspection, tells me you are pursuing the wrong path. Trust me, that gets old real quick and isn't good for your car driving on a mismatched tune long enough to set the readiness flags. You will ruin your car and will soon be selling it if you go this route IMO. I know this because I've done it and was in your same mindset at one time. Having the knowledge to scientifically diagnose every last fueling condition and figuring out what fueling compensation table is causing your problems is like playing whack-a-mole. You think you fixed some problem, but then the conditions change slightly and you have 2 more now to solve. Rinse and repeat, or keep paying a tuner $250/hr to do the same thing 5 times.

It sounds like your tuner was a noob despite the reputation.

For most people though you are correct that a standalone is not the best path and the OEM controller is suitable. For the OP though, his goals are outside of what the factory ECU can do safely IMO.

[someguy2800]

You couldn't pay me to go back to an oem ecu. If your car does not start and run like stock at any temperature or condition then you either have a hardware problem or your tuner is not a tuner. Its really not that complicated.

[vwmikel]

With some of the newer self-learning ECU's out there it can get you pretty close without a lot of trial and error. Then you'd also have on-board boost control, anti-lag, 2 step, etc.

[dburt86]

You guys are high if you think an oem ecu is better then a modern standalone. Don't blame your car being down on the ecu when I'd bet my bottom dollar that it was either a shit tune or shit install.Anthony, for example, has a lot of money invested. His current control method offers no protection and incredibly limited features that's he should be using.Let's look at examples-Bottom port of the wastegate comes off. Dead1 of many fuel pumps fail- deadYou lose oil pressure- deadHigh egt- deadDataloggong on a dme- jokeSo let's stop pretending the stock dme is better. It's not. It does work, just like blownthrough carbs and FMUs

- - - Updated - - -

As far as a list of stabdalones, I'd be looking at ms3pro, haltech, vems in that order. Aem sucks

[Butters Stoch]

Vems has PNP obd2 and our very own very reputable tuner on BFC.

[pbonsalb]

Use dburt and whatever he recommends. He is reasonably close and can help install and tune and teach you. For me, having the local teacher would be a prequisite for a standalone since I am not a computer person. For now I will wait until a pnp option is really well sorted and done a bunch of times and preferably my car ages out of obd2 plug in inspection in my state -- 2 years. If I still have the car then . . . .

[avee]

Im looking into a motec (expensive yes) but i trust none of the tuners in my area and john reed is in portland only a few hours away.
stock ecus are great but they offer no safety at all. after investing tonnes of money into my car and buying racelogic, and a data logger
i may have just bought a motec and have had all the features built in so it doesnt make much sense not to switch over

[vwmikel]

Granted the OP was talking about OBD2, I have been eyeballing the link pnp for OBD1. I haven't see a lot of feedback on it though which is a bit odd. I would have thought that would be more popular.

[wazzu70]

The Link system is supposed to be similar to the Vipec units. Not sure what the difference is really except possibly manufacture location?

Either way I have heard a lot of good on the Vipec units. Not sure about the PnP but the hardware/software are what matters most.

[vwmikel]

The Link system is supposed to be similar to the Vipec units. Not sure what the difference is really except possibly manufacture location?

Either way I have heard a lot of good on the Vipec units. Not sure about the PnP but the hardware/software are what matters most.

Well, it's their G4+ which they make for other applications as well as a generic fitment I believe. So, it should be the same basic architecture.

[someguy2800]

Granted the OP was talking about OBD2, I have been eyeballing the link pnp for OBD1. I haven't see a lot of feedback on it though which is a bit odd. I would have thought that would be more popular.

They are pretty miserable at marketing. I've been on this forum for 10 years and I had never heard of it until someone from Australia mentioned it a year ago and I went and looked it up. If nobody in your target market has ever heard of your product its time to fire the marketing people.

[Butters Stoch]

If I was to go crazy on a standalone and I was to have a good amount of expendable money to have someone tune it. I would be looking at a Emtron ecu and hire Nick from Pavlotech to tune it.

[Def]

I highly discourage this solution for you, speaking from personal experience with my STI. I had the premier standalone ECU and tuner handle that car too. A standalone is a total PITA for anything other than a fully dedicated race car. What you are wanting will actually be worse off than the current remapped OEM ECUs. I have a TT stage2 M3 that I purchased and the daily drivability of that thing is damn near OEM, ie perfect. I don't see why you'd want a standalone when the stock ECU is perfectly capable of handling a turbo setup (mine has zero codes too). There are just way too many variables to tune correctly on a standalone and most tuners just aren't qualified to handle them IMO.....even the "best". It's not like the E36 platform requires a standalone (due to crappy OEM ECUs like Supras), or that it has years of map/table development to perfect everything (like Supras).

The things you take for granted (perfect cold starts, quick crank starts, consistency over all temperatures, lift throttle behavior, optimized fuel econ, etc) usually take years of constant tweaking to perfect on a standalone. Just the fact that you want to swap back to OEM ECU for inspection, tells me you are pursuing the wrong path. Trust me, that gets old real quick and isn't good for your car driving on a mismatched tune long enough to set the readiness flags. You will ruin your car and will soon be selling it if you go this route IMO. I know this because I've done it and was in your same mindset at one time. Having the knowledge to scientifically diagnose every last fueling condition and figuring out what fueling compensation table is causing your problems is like playing whack-a-mole. You think you fixed some problem, but then the conditions change slightly and you have 2 more now to solve. Rinse and repeat, or keep paying a tuner $250/hr to do the same thing 5 times.

It's not that hard to tune a car. Sounds like your tuner was a total dud.

Granted, it does take longer than 1-2 hrs of dyno pulls to really get a car driving well, but any tuner worth a damn will be able to do some minor street tuning to clean up the "everyday" parts of the map, then some dyno tuning to get the higher load stuff. I actually street tuned multiple standalones and the driveability was always better than a flashed stock ROM. Sure, the flashed stock ROM/DME will do pretty decent for a mild setup, but at some point you just outgrow it and you're just asking for trouble. I've also tuned stock ECUs, and while a lot of work is "done" for you, some stuff is just really hard to make work well with a stock DME/ECU at double/triple the stock HP (or more).


As for which standalone, I'd highly recommend learning to do the basics yourself. The information is all freely available out there, or you can take some pretty inexpensive classes to teach you everything from the basics to the most advanced stuff. I personally got a bit of college education on the subject (took some internal combustion engine engineering electives for my mechanical engineering degree), and then self taught myself everything. It's not hard if you spend some time on it, and it's easy with modern standalones to go out and take some logs and tweak the tune once you have an idea of what's going on.

[euro2fast4u]

Gunni is making a Vems plug and play system.

here is his one website.

https://sway.com/GZ00i4xoVNfUBgcg?ref=Link&loc=edit

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ing-the-rounds

[Matt Cramer]

The Link system is supposed to be similar to the Vipec units. Not sure what the difference is really except possibly manufacture location?

Vipec appears to be a re-branded Link. I'm not sure of their exact business relationship.

[wazzu70]

Vipec appears to be a re-branded Link. I'm not sure of their exact business relationship.

Yeah, I don't know what the relationship is either. They are tied together in some fashion though.

[Butters Stoch]

Link is obd1 PNP only ? Although I see an eBay seller listing M52/S52 for obd2, they claim. Its the only place I see this. Supposedly "Link G4+ ".
I'm excited for this ms. 30# here I come. Ethanol sensor and every now and then I'll take a trip to Boston fill up and 3 extra cans.

[dburt86]

You guys do understand how easy it is to take any universal ecu and make it pnp to any car? I've done about 20 bmw's, some of them odb2.

cj surr did a ms3x and then an ultimate in his obd2 converted e28 since the group buy thread started.

[Butters Stoch]

You guys do understand how easy it is to take any universal ecu and make it pnp to any car? I've done about 20 bmw's, some of them odb2.

cj surr did a ms3x and then an ultimate in his obd2 converted e28 since the group buy thread started.

Yeah, I'm just in no rush whatsoever. Cars mint the way it is now. But have soooo many projects going on that even if this PNP was ready today. It would sit on a shelf for 6-7 months.

[wazzu70]

You guys do understand how easy it is to take any universal ecu and make it pnp to any car? I've done about 20 bmw's, some of them odb2.

cj surr did a ms3x and then an ultimate in his obd2 converted e28 since the group buy thread started.

I agree. PnP is the last thing I would consider when buying a standalone! Its really not a big deal to wire it up.