Timing chain guides. Mileage? Cost? 530i or 540i ?

[ross1]

Well, the constant clacking friction of the metallic timing chain against the plastic guides is one main reason of the eventual breakdown of the guides.
So, the additional pressure exercised by oil and a longer-stiffer spring in the tensioner pushes the guides further against the timing chain, and thus reduce the clacking.
But I agree, a longer and stiffer spring may not last any longer than its weaker predecessor. That is why I’d replace the spring every few years -say at 50 K miles intervals. It is only a 50 cents part, very easy to remove and replace. An excellent insurance to prolong the lifetime of the guides.

What are you smoking, Ched?

[philly98540]

Yeah, as said above, that spring in the tensioner is only there to help keep the chain from going slack when the engine if off and during initial cranking. I bet it does just about nothing once the oil pressure comes up. Not sure the numbers, but I bet the chain tensioner force due the oil pressure is at least 10 or 20 times more than the force that that spring provides. Someone could calc is up pretty easy. Anyway, BMW revised that spring at some point as some slapping was likely reported during start ups and that was their fix. Does that initial slap on some cars cause the guides to fail sooner? Maybe, as once the guide plastic parts get all old and brittle from age, mileage, heat, etc, etc. the plastic could crack from those slaps. Who knows. IIRC, the check valve should keep the oil in the tensioner when the engine is off and the spring is more of a patch thing if there is some leakage in the check when the car sits and the cams are in a spot where they want to rotate due to the valve springs pushing. Is that newer designed spring enough to keep that chain tight on a engine with a bad check valve? I'm not sure. I've seen some report start up slap even after a new spring is put in. I would think changing an old spring, that is already the new design, will likely do nothing as the spring should keep its properties for the life of the engine as it never goes past yield during use and should barely see much travel if the check is good and the tensioner seal does not leak. The tensioner does not move much in that case.

[jitref]

Is there any consensus on price? I'm in Canada and I've been quoted between $2K and $4.5K

Also, has anyone on the forum done the timing chain job in Canada?

[JimLev]

If you can get the guides replace for $2K that’s a smoking deal you shouldn’t pass up.

[jitref]

thanks for the response, Jim. I was quoted 2K for not just guides but chains as well. I just have no sense if this is at all reasonable.

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thanks for the response, Jim. I was quoted 2K for not just guides but chains as well. I just have no sense if this is at all reasonable.

[sienayr]

thanks for the response, Jim. I was quoted 2K for not just guides but chains as well. I just have no sense if this is at all reasonable..

If you can get the guides replace for $2K that’s a smoking deal you shouldn’t pass up.

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[Chedley]

thanks for the response, Jim. I was quoted 2K for not just guides but chains as well. I just have no sense if this is at all reasonable.
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But that timing guides and chain job is for the V8 M62/M62TU engines. Is that the type of engine you have on your 530i ?

[JimLev]

His info says he has a 530i, it has guides and chains too.

[jitref]

But that timing guides and chain job is for the V8 M62/M62TU engines. Is that the type of engine you have on your 530i ?

I've also got a '02 540i with the M62TU, I thought I had updated my bio but it's not visible.

The 540 has 145K km (~90K miles) and I don't hear anything yet but wanted to pre-empt the inevitable. Finding it really difficult to find any testimonials from people in Toronto.

[Chedley]

...
The 540 has 145K km (~90K miles) and I don't hear anything yet but wanted to pre-empt the inevitable. Finding it really difficult to find any testimonials from people in Toronto.

So, I am not from Toronto, but my advice is do NOT attempt the timing chain guides job simply as a "preventative maintenance". Do, replace the tensioner or its internal spring -that will take care of the rattling noise on cold startups-. Otherwise, wait until you see chunks of broken plastic guides in the lower oil pan to do the timing chain job.

At 90 K miles, your guides have still plenty of life time left.
FYI, I have 199K miles, and never touched those original guides; still going, knock on wood..!!

[JimLev]

Well my view point is waiting until you find chunks of the guides in the oil pan is too late.
If you have another car, then fine wait until you either think it’s mileage is high enough to warrant doing the guides or just before you think they are failing. Either way do them before they leave you stranded.
$2K to get the guides done on a 540 is dirt cheap. Hope this place has done them before and knows how to time the engine.

Chedley, we should start a pool on when your guides are going to fail.

[jbwbhs]

I just pulled the guide rails on my '97 m62. 146k, the last 80 I put on it, Mobil 1, 4 to 6000 mile changes. Very clean inside the covers, very little wear on the plastic, one vertical plastic piece broken, could have happened during disassembly. Plastic was brittle. Jesus bolt was little problem after fabricating a suitable crank holder, worked from under the car (sell your soul for a lift) with floor jack handle for the cheater. Waiting for parts to reassemble, in the meantime cleaning everything. A question: Am I safe assuming that the non vanos cams are not sensitive to sprocket alignment? The flywheel is locked, the cams are locked, so I should be able to remove chains and sprockets with no worries?

[scubajim20]

I'm with JimLev, waiting for symptoms before doing the guides is risky or possibly catastrophic. @ 146,000 mi I would think it's time to pull the trigger.

[jicaino]

Why would you apply more pressure to this? Seems you would accelerate guide wear and why should a stiffer spring last any longer?
Why do so many insist on re-inventing the wheel?
To the old question posed. Given that the guides are plastic age has an effect too so don't let mileage be the only criteria. I've removed only slightly worn guides that were twenty years old in two pieces.

The original spring doesn't pushes the guides to anywhere near the point the oil pressure does. The logic reason beind using a longer spring it's to not alow a chain slap. If your spring leaves a lot of room, the slap of the chain against the guide will be a lot harder than it is if you have less free play, and consequently less room for the chain to accelerate and slap the guide harder. As you very wisely point out, wear isn't the main concern, plastic cracking is a bigger concern, and for that, the increased pressure of a longer spring does a better job.

You can add about 3/8" of lenght over the original uncompressed old style spring and still the oil pressure will put more pressure on that tensioner, sometimes isn't about reinventing the wheel, but to make it rounder. BMW didn't engineer the tensioner for maximizing guides life, but for just dong a fair enough job during warranty.

[JimLev]

A question: Am I safe assuming that the non vanos cams are not sensitive to sprocket alignment? The flywheel is locked, the cams are locked, so I should be able to remove chains and sprockets with no worries?

They are sensitive, maybe not as much as a vanos engine is because you only have one cam sensor, not 2.
The Bentleys manual has a section on timing the non tu engine.

[jbwbhs]

Thanks Jim, maybe you can help me understand. I thought the cam timing was fixed in the m62. If not, what adjusts the timing, there is no vanos solenoid?

[philly98540]

There are slots on the cam gears that are used to set the timing. Once set correctly it does not move.

[Ap e39 540i]

1. The stock chain guides in a 1999-2003 540i last anywhere between 150k-200k miles, depending on maintenance. It's uncommon but not unheard of for a 1999+ 540i to go past 200k miles, as ViolinARC will repeatedly tell everyone. The earlier 1997-1998 540i had the M62 non-Vanos motor where the guides generally last around 200k-250k miles. Age and maintenance are the main factors in the chain guides wearing out.
2. Just the V8's have this issue, more specifically the M62/M62tu in the 540i, 740i/740il, X5, and Range Rover (03-05). I've done chain guides in all of those.
3. It's a 20-30 hour job, depending on experience and having the correct tools. Most reputable shops charge in the $3k-$4k range for a proper chain guide job. However, you'll often want to do other things at the same time while you're in there, like the valley pan gasket, the CCV at the back of the intake, the Vanos rebuild, etc. It's pretty pricey unless you DIY the job or find somebody like me who will do it for less than a shop.

I've done about 10 chain guide jobs in pretty much every body style that the M62/M62tu was offered in, so that's me speaking from experience.

Where you located ? I just got a 540 and I need to repair my timing chain guides