1995 M3 repair quote

[tikagod]

I recently inherited a working, though worn, M3. Basically, I am trying to find out if this is a decent repair quote. The shop has reliable reviews and word of mouth, but the labor seems a bit off for some of this.

I've also started looking at the Pelican guides because if this is accurate, looks like I'll be doing a fair amount of the work myself.

[JDStrickland]

That's high.

Assuming a labor rate of $100 (also high), then they are asking for five hours, plus, for a Service Inspection II. This is not rocket science, you can do the inspection II at home. Well, we can do the inspection II at home, I assume you have basic skills so you should be able to do this as well. 3 hours to replace an O2 sensor? Run, do not walk, to the nearest exit.

[Moron95M3]

^^They're charging $110/hr it looks. $275 jobs are 2.5 hrs, $110 for 1 hr.


Man, I should get into this business...5 hours for a Inspection II LOL

[ChuckDizzle]

You're about to get bent over and they aren't gonna use any lube.

$110/hour isn't outrageous but their estimates for how many hours are required for services look to be inflated. Like JD said, 3 hours for an o2 sensor is a little excessive.

[mslevin]

You can definitely do most of this yourself. Get parts from Pelican Parts or FCP Euro, and buy a Bentley manual (or just read forum guides!).

I replaced everything in my PS system except pump and parts from FCP euro were under $200. Drop the steering rack to replace the boots and its not a hard job (although messy).

If you're doing an Inspection II, do the valve cover gasket at the same time. Once the spark plugs are out you're most of the way there.

Solder the wire back together for the temp sensor.

Belts are pretty simple. Engine mounts can be tough- I recommend getting an engine brace from Harbor Freight ($80?) as it makes the job much easier.

Not sure about the ABS issue- I'll let someone else chime in on that.

2 hours for fog lights is steep! If you want to save a little money just buy fog light delete plates

[gdavid]

You now have excellent motivation to do this stuff yourself. I agree that the labor estimates seem a bit and some of the parts too high however there is a large unknown factor when working on older vehicles and it is better for them to err on the high side of an estimate. What looks like a good example of this is the oil leak, a valve cover gasket is a 1/2 hour job but it says possible oil pan which is a several hour job because the front sub-frame needs to be lowered. Another thing that looks bit odd to me is the parts cost of the steering parts, I would have expected $950 to include a rebuilt steering rack, lines and pump but there is a separate line item to replace the steering rack boots which tells me that the rack isn't included in the $950.

What raises my attention is the omission of any cooling system work, since you inherited it, you know should have an idea about the service history but unless the water pump, hoses, thermostat and radiator have been replaced in the past, 7 or so years, I would expect it listed as recommended service.

There are instructions here, on pelican and elsewhere on the net to walk you though 95% of this stuff and this vintage car will be a unsustainable money pit if you aren't prepared to do it yourself.

Take my advice with a grain of salt because I have don't experience paying others to work on my cars also because you read it on the internet.

[JDStrickland]

You're about to get bent over and they aren't gonna use any lube.

$110/hour isn't outrageous but their estimates for how many hours are required for services look to be inflated. Like JD said, 3 hours for an o2 sensor is a little excessive.

Lube is extra. With the time they're charging, I'm gonna guess that the lube is sold by the milliliter, and is pushing $100.

[RedOctober]

I'm a quasi-DIYer, and while I'll admit some of that stuff is good to have a shop do if you don't trust yourself, some of that is real easy to do and should be on the 2nd tier list. Fog lights, fender wedges, outside air temp; that stuff I'd wait on. MUCH of what I2 calls for can be done yourself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JDStrickland]

ABS is perhaps the only thing that you need to pay for service. Having said that, my ABS light has been on for 13 years. You can easily spend your remaining days above ground without the benefits of ABS. Remember, until something like 1990, ABS was, at best, an option that could be ordered on some high-end cars, and was not even an option on the low-end cars of the day. I don't know when ABS came to be standard equipment on a BMW, and don't care. The point is, people drove around for almost 100 years without ABS, and lived to tell the tale. Fixing ABS is clearly an elective that only you can decide upon. Well, the State might weigh in and force your hand, but absent a rule that you have to comply with, you can easily elect to look at the light.

The ONLY affect of not having ABS -- the condition when the light is on -- is that the tires can lock up in a hard-stop. The brakes will do what brakes do without fail. The only thing is, the car can go into a skid that ABS might otherwise prevent. You can apply the brakes with less enthusiasm and do the same thing as the ABS.

[tikagod]

You now have excellent motivation to do this stuff yourself. I agree that the labor estimates seem a bit and some of the parts too high however there is a large unknown factor when working on older vehicles and it is better for them to err on the high side of an estimate. What looks like a good example of this is the oil leak, a valve cover gasket is a 1/2 hour job but it says possible oil pan which is a several hour job because the front sub-frame needs to be lowered. Another thing that looks bit odd to me is the parts cost of the steering parts, I would have expected $950 to include a rebuilt steering rack, lines and pump but there is a separate line item to replace the steering rack boots which tells me that the rack isn't included in the $950. What raises my attention is the omission of any cooling system work, since you inherited it, you know should have an idea about the service history but unless the water pump, hoses, thermostat and radiator have been replaced in the past, 7 or so years, I would expect it listed as recommended service.There are instructions here, on pelican and elsewhere on the net to walk you though 95% of this stuff and this vintage car will be a unsustainable money pit if you aren't prepared to do it yourself.Take my advice with a grain of salt because I have don't experience paying others to work on my cars also because you read it on the internet.

The cooling system was completely redone at 90k, and a new water pump at 120k. The car is now at 150k. Suspension was redone in 2014. These were done by a shop we trusted, but now I live a few thousand miles away and finding a new shop is a pain. I'm thinking that this shop, though it specializes in BMWs, just doesn't want to work on such an old car that needs a lot of work. Kinda shitty, since I specifically asked them if they were comfortable working on this model but whatever.

I'm thinking its time to invest in the tools to do a lot of this myself. I could do the inspection II, which seems like it covers a lot of this basic work anyway, and do the valve gasket at the same time. I'd feel pretty comfortable with that. O2 sensor I could do, seems really basic if I invest in some jackstands. I'm guessing replacing fender wedges/engine cover would just pretty simple as well.

My big concern is the power steering system, since its a pain to drive without it and I've never tried anything like that. Same for any kind of suspension work. Ah well, with this quote maybe I can just shop around. Anyone know of a reputable shop in DFW area?

[jmo69]

Remember, until something like 1990, ABS was, at best, an option that could be ordered on some high-end cars, and was not even an option on the low-end cars of the day.

The first car I remember was my parent's 1971 Lincoln Mk III, and that was a far cry from what showed up in the 90's. Do some research and tackle it yourself, if you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself, sell it to someone who can. You can buy a pretty nice e46 for what they want to fix this one.

[tikagod]

You now have excellent motivation to do this stuff yourself. I agree that the labor estimates seem a bit and some of the parts too high however there is a large unknown factor when working on older vehicles and it is better for them to err on the high side of an estimate. What looks like a good example of this is the oil leak, a valve cover gasket is a 1/2 hour job but it says possible oil pan which is a several hour job because the front sub-frame needs to be lowered. Another thing that looks bit odd to me is the parts cost of the steering parts, I would have expected $950 to include a rebuilt steering rack, lines and pump but there is a separate line item to replace the steering rack boots which tells me that the rack isn't included in the $950. What raises my attention is the omission of any cooling system work, since you inherited it, you know should have an idea about the service history but unless the water pump, hoses, thermostat and radiator have been replaced in the past, 7 or so years, I would expect it listed as recommended service.There are instructions here, on pelican and elsewhere on the net to walk you though 95% of this stuff and this vintage car will be a unsustainable money pit if you aren't prepared to do it yourself.Take my advice with a grain of salt because I have don't experience paying others to work on my cars also because you read it on the internet.

So the car is at 150k now, cooling system was replaced at 90 and the pump again at 120. Suspension was redone in 2014.

Yeah it looks like finding a good mechanic in my new area (DFW) is going to be tough, so it looks like I'll be buying some tools and doing a bunch of this myself. Everything up to the power steering pump doesn't seem too bad -- I've never dealt with that part before but I can always try. I'd probably stay away from the ABS system though, mostly because I have no idea how to troubleshoot it. Pricing stuff out on pelican parts right now.

I assume stuff like bushing, fender wedges can wait for a while, right?

[gdavid]

The control arm bushings shouldn't be failing if the suspension was done 3 years ago. They are pretty standard scope of a suspension refresh. The are pretty easy to change, comparable to a brake job. Buy the bushings premounted and it is easy. If they weren't done with the suspension in 2014, I am guessing that the inner and outer ball joints weren't replaced either.

[hc1001]

It looks high to me but i have no real experience in prices. It shouldnt take 2 hours to install fog lights, it probably takes 10 mins but maybe thats what it says in their system to charge...

FYI, If the engine is leaking oil, the valve cover and oil filter housing gaskets should be looked at. I would change those two first then the oil pan gasket later if the leak is still there. Its very common on E36 and E46 for those items to fail and cause a oil leak. Someone who works on these vehicles would know those are the first two suspects when there is an oil leak under the engine.

[AJLM34A]

"BMW must update power steering with new CHF11S fluid"

[shoman24v]

The E36 is an fairly easy car to work on. You will have to buy some tools to do some jobs (ie rear trailing arm bushings if you replace with stock). Roll your sleeves up, buy a floor jack, (4) 6 ton jack stands, and get to work.



Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Krohn27]

I feel like these are the kind of quotes/repairs that leave people saying "I really enjoyed my BMW, but it cost so much to maintain/upkeep". Some of these things may be intimidating to a novice DIY'er, but tackled one at a time, they are certainly do-able. Like others said, the fog light price seems high to me. I bought a set of glass lens fogs on eBay for around $45. Used a screwdriver to pop the originals out, and the new ones were in, in less than 15 mins. I guess if the bracket themselves are completely toast you got a little more time in the project, but you can usually reuse the ones in there already.

[Pyropete82]

Nobody touching on big picture here? $8k?! I'll drive what I got and wait till it totally breaks and buy another one for $8k in the same condition. Ridiculous quote. It looks like he gave you really huge ROM (rough order of magnitude). The smoke is so thick here that it's not worth trying to negotiate until the guy gets within a more reasonable price. Check what the PPI would cost you, maybe $150? Then have him write it up, it will likely be less than 1/2.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gdavid]

I can understand a shop not being eager to work on an older vehicle a new customer. Any vehicle this age is due has things wearing out all around the vehicle and you are likely to get a unsatisfied customer coming back to the shop with a new issue that they are convinced is related to what you were just paid to fix. I think we have all heard stories from friends and coworkers that are convinced they were just screwed by some shop because last month they paid good money to replace a radiator and today they were stranded by a bad starter, we know they have nothing to do with each other but shops deal with people daily who cannot comprehend this. If an independent mechanic has been working on a car since it was much newer and has dealt with you and the car for years, they will keep working on it but if they have plenty of work to keep themselves busy, an old M3 that has probably been driven hard for years could be a headache they don't need so they give you an estimate to discourage you or ensure they are well paid for any potential aggravation.

A DIY mechanic driver is pretty accustomed to listening to the car and staying on top of issues as they arise or at least tolerating them if they aren't critical and can wait. A non-mechanically inclined driver, expecting 100% reliability from a 20+ year old car can be tough to satisfy. If you enjoy owning and driving older cars, you need to learn to love working on them or paying dearly.

[tjm3]

And this is the reason why these older cars are not good for anyone without tools and the ability to use them. Unless you're independently wealthy, of course.

My kid got an estimate similar to this for his Audi A4T. $6800 to bring it up to par. Some suspension and engine parts. We did it all in less than a day for about $500 in parts, my cost, some Audi some aftermarket. Dealers here are charging $168/hr.

[StarvinMarvin]

4 hours for a valve cover gasket is insane. 5 hours on the power steering pump is pushing it too...

I've done this job only once in two hours and that was with cleaning the underside of the valve cover...

Engine cover off, disconnect CCV tube, disconnect coils, disconnect ground straps, remove coils/boots, undo bolts for valve cover, take off valve cover, remove valve cover gasket, remove replace plug hole gaskets, clean half circles on the back of the head, dab some high temp rtv on the corners of the head and on the half moons, replace valve cover gasket and spark plug gaskets, replace the valve cover with new rubber washers, replace coils/boots, reconnect ground straps and coils, attach CCV vent tube, connect engine cover, done.

[TostitoBandito]

Yeah, echoing everyone else most of that quote is crazy talk. Their hourly rate is fine for a good quality BMW specialty shop (no idea if they actually are or not), but they estimate way high on the hours for most of that stuff. I mean, you can buy two new OEM fog lights for $50-70 each and it will take literally 10 minutes to pop them in.

The only things on there I'd consider paying them for are the temp sensor wiring (cause I have little experience with car wiring) and maybe the ABS stuff (though I'd make them give me a better idea on the quote for that). Everything else is pretty straightforward to DIY. A lot of it actually makes sense to do at the same time since they get in each others way:

• Power Steering
• Oil Pan
• Engine Mounts
• Steering Rack

All that stuff basically has to come off to do any one of them (not the engine mounts obviously, but the engine is lifted so they're accessible). While you're in there and have everything out of the way, do the belts, any front suspension bushings, and finally put new plastic underpanel pieces on. Even if you're inexperienced and working off guides, as long as you have the necessary tools (and a buddy helps) you can easily knock that out in a weekend.

If you have some time you can do everything here for the cost of the parts, which is probably under $1000 for just the stuff on the list. The guides at Pelican are generally good, as are any guides you find on these forums. You can also find videos of many common procedures on the E36 on Youtube, and people here will answer any questions you have. I was in a similar boat as you 5 or 6 years ago, and basically learned everything from forums and guides online.

I also suggest mapping out a plan for the car based on what you want to do with it. If you just want a street car you're probably fine with the things listed, but if you want to go for more performance or track use there's a number of other upgrades that make sense to do while you're in there doing these items. Things like a cooling system upgrade or pulleys while you're doing belts, or getting something like a MM aluminum underpanel instead of the OEM plastic underpanel.

[GG///M3]

These humans are looking to rape your wallet .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[brokeazz]

I see you are in fort worth, PM me, i can help

[emoore924]

"Shop Supplies $8.95"

BAAAWWWWHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHA

Ahem, now back to our regularly scheduled thread.