Soliciting input: ALL E31 owners - I am meeting with designer Adrian van Hooydonk

[bruinbro]

Re manual transmissions: could BMW be afraid of a repeat of the V10 M5 manual trans issue?

[tvjake2]

Easy enough to get extra air to the intercoolers with additional grilles on either side of the nostrils just like the e31 has supplemental grilles on the sides to get cooling air to the radiator so the kidney does not have to be gigantic....and I agree this seems to be a thing on modern BMWs for design but it's not pretty.

+1 - I guess I'm not a new Bimmer lover...period. I don't know of one of them that I like. Oddly enough, I didn't like the i8 either when it first came out but now I'd list it at the top of the "new" designs. All the BMW's are now looking alike. They just don't have any soul. They still drive and steer really well...looks, boring. If the new 8 had a deeper front hood slope and shorter grilles as a result it might look better. I know, I know...it messes with radiator and cooling. 'Don't care.

[vet73]

Olin, I would ask what engine packages are going to be available. With so many exotics in the price range that this surely will go for, I suspect that something out of the ordinary will be expected and demanded. An 8 cyl is just so ordinary unless hp is exotic, but a 10 or even 12 cyl would be unusual enough to feed to demand and add excitement, esp with a double turbo almost the norm in this strata.

[dragon850]

+1 - I guess I'm not a new Bimmer lover...period. I don't know of one of them that I like. Oddly enough, I didn't like the i8 either when it first came out but now I'd list it at the top of the "new" designs. All the BMW's are now looking alike. They just don't have any soul. They still drive and steer really well...looks, boring. If the new 8 had a deeper front hood slope and shorter grilles as a result it might look better. I know, I know...it messes with radiator and cooling. 'Don't care.

+1

[clubE31]

will it be electric (hybrid like the i8) as well ?

[David9999999]

I didn't see the video on Petrolicious or BMW's site- anyone have a link?

[barry8108]

+1 - I guess I'm not a new Bimmer lover...period. I don't know of one of them that I like. Oddly enough, I didn't like the i8 either when it first came out but now I'd list it at the top of the "new" designs. All the BMW's are now looking alike. They just don't have any soul. They still drive and steer really well...looks, boring. If the new 8 had a deeper front hood slope and shorter grilles as a result it might look better. I know, I know...it messes with radiator and cooling. 'Don't care.

I never understand talk like this.I just bought a 2014 535i with the M package. It blows away any old BMW, and i have had 35 of them from a 72 Bavaria up. the car is very fast, does 100 like it is nothing, handles like a sports car, tons of features. Looks great, nothing i can say bad about the car. People keep thinking BMW should have stood still and stayed in the 90's. They would be out of buiss. if they had. People do not want to shift anymore, paddles are faster. Except for the fact you can hardly work on them, they are safer, faster and better in almost every way than the old cars. And as for trying to look like the old 8, tell me one BMW that looks like the old cars. No reason to make it look like a e31. They are trying to sell cars, and they seem to be doing a good job at it.

[Budget M3]

I never understand talk like this.I just bought a 2014 535i with the M package. It blows away any old BMW, and i have had 35 of them from a 72 Bavaria up. the car is very fast, does 100 like it is nothing, handles like a sports car, tons of features. Looks great, nothing i can say bad about the car. People keep thinking BMW should have stood still and stayed in the 90's. They would be out of buiss. if they had. People do not want to shift anymore, paddles are faster. Except for the fact you can hardly work on them, they are safer, faster and better in almost every way than the old cars. And as for trying to look like the old 8, tell me one BMW that looks like the old cars. No reason to make it look like a e31. They are trying to sell cars, and they seem to be doing a good job at it.

I think you missed the point. Agree the cars have advanced significantly since the e31 was in production--for example my 2016 340i is the fastest car I own, easy to tune to be even faster, and is more comfortable and reliable at almost any speed. Is it the most fun though?.....absolutely NOT....by a long shot. M635, Z1 and 850i are the ones I take out on the weekends BECAUSE they are more fun to drive and to be seen at C&C events. "Wow, that's a really sweet 535i with M package!"...said no one ever....

[Budget M3]

So what was the feedback from Mr. van H?

[barry8108]

I think you missed the point. Agree the cars have advanced significantly since the e31 was in production--for example my 2016 340i is the fastest car I own, easy to tune to be even faster, and is more comfortable and reliable at almost any speed. Is it the most fun though?.....absolutely NOT....by a long shot. M635, Z1 and 850i are the ones I take out on the weekends BECAUSE they are more fun to drive and to be seen at C&C events. "Wow, that's a really sweet 535i with M package!"...said no one ever....

Well, actually they do say that. And i did win our annual Eurofest with my 840. My point was both cars are great. You have to stop living in the past. There is nothing wrong with the new BMW's. Are you telling me a new M4 is not better than every M3 from the past. My friend has a new one, and it is better then all of them. I remember when the e34 came out, and all the e28 guys said it had no soul, too much electronics. Then when the e39 came out, all the e34 guys were crying it had no soul, and so on. The e30 guys hate the e36, e36 hate the e46, it never ends. New cars are almost always better. Who can say a 2017 Challenger is not better than a 72. Only nostalgia keeps people thinking older is better, and for the most part it is not. Maybe the styling looks great, but the reliability, safety and performance are better today.

[dragon850]

"reliability, safety and performance are better today."

Not always the case. I have owned and driven many newer P cars, AMGs and newer BMWs, the reliability is not better and for the most part new cars are purposely limited on what a DIYer could do.
As far as the ride and style, I have always preferred my 8, but you are correct, I am living in the past, new cars rarely impress me unless they are something out of the ordinary like Aventador or Zonda..

[Chillax]

heh heh I knew them kidneys would strike some nerves. After being told and seeing the pics I have to agree, they do look like "blaring Rhino nostrils" ... maybe if they'd just tone them down a few notches. I don't think people are expecting an E31 nose but something a bit more "svelte" might be closer to the target. No?

[Budget M3]

Well, actually they do say that. And i did win our annual Eurofest with my 840. My point was both cars are great. You have to stop living in the past. There is nothing wrong with the new BMW's. Are you telling me a new M4 is not better than every M3 from the past. My friend has a new one, and it is better then all of them. I remember when the e34 came out, and all the e28 guys said it had no soul, too much electronics. Then when the e39 came out, all the e34 guys were crying it had no soul, and so on. The e30 guys hate the e36, e36 hate the e46, it never ends. New cars are almost always better. Who can say a 2017 Challenger is not better than a 72. Only nostalgia keeps people thinking older is better, and for the most part it is not. Maybe the styling looks great, but the reliability, safety and performance are better today.

We agree on one thing, the new cars are great cars. It's not about living in the past as you seem to keep misinterpreting, it's the connection with the car that is at the core of the argument. Just as this thread has spurred emotion from both ends of the spectrum, it's the emotional connection that I find lacking in the new cars. While they are indeed more capable, they are just not as much fun to look at to drive. Maybe there is a new thrill in the new cars that will replace the journey to find the perfectly executed double clutch downshifted, trail braked, 4-wheel drift around your favorite corner that makes a manual so much fun to drive, but I for one haven't found it yet.

Yes, every generation of a particular series always generates the same "soulless" argument--e34/39, e30/36/46, etc. those cars, however, had zero gaps between cessation of production of the old and intro of the new. The 8 has 20+ years between generations and the original was one of the greatest designs ever to come from BMW. If the new 8 carries the Joe Camel nose into production, I doubt it will be hailed 20 years from now as one of the greatest designs to ever come out from BMW.

[Gary Knox]

I'll put my 2 cents in as well. My initial opinion the first time I saw the front end of the new 8 series was: The worst looking front end I've ever seen on a car (up until then, that label would have been on the most recent Lexus models). It NEVER gets better whenever I see a new picture!

But, since I don't buy new 'sports or high performance sports cars', BMW could care less about my opinion! That, and since I'm 80 years old and will never buy a higher performance car than the MB SL55 AMG I now own, means the '97 840Ci is probably the last Bimmer I'll own.

Gary

[Chamberlin]

I've often contemplated starting a bodywork company who 're-designs' and sells pre-painted replacement front bumpers/clips for cars that were born with less than palatable front ends...As you mentioned, the replacement design for Lexus' ridiculous plastic hourglass nose would be a big seller I'm sure.

As much as Mr. van Hooydonk talks of the "new design language" and the new "facial expressions", I'm not seeing the connection from the 8 concept to the Z4 concept with regard to the grills. I quite like the kidney implementation on the Zed... Let's hope Hooydonk reconsiders and does a face transplant on the 8 from the 2018 Z4. Or maybe at least the M8 will arrive with a rethought front end... at which point I wouldn't care if the standard 8 series continues to look like it wants to reach out and bite you. I just don't follow how an intake port's design language should looks like a protruding outlet. All of the other intakes (such as the intercooler ducts) are all deep inward tunnels, and look purposeful.

[72tpik5]

I think it is a great looking car. It was not intended to carry on the looks of the previous version of the 8. Evolution rarely takes a form that is understood by the past. The mirrors are the worst part for me. JMHO.

[Chamberlin]

It was not intended to carry on the looks of the previous version of the 8.

Then don't call it the new 8 Series! Lol just kidding... I realize it's still fits the general form and function of the E31's GT luxury autobahn status prestige flagship tech showpiece. But aside from that, I think all of us are butt-hurt that no matter how much we strain our eyes, we can't seem to find that one little design element that pays homage to the original car.

[olinjohnston]

Meanwhile at Mercedes-Benz....




Can you guys just admit you don't like the style of CARS today? A humongous grille is the thing (from cheap cars to expensive cars) nowadays, and auto designers aren't really permitted to go too far against the trends because at the end of the day, the cars have to SELL. The E31 crowd is not the target, and neither is the USA/Europe.

Big grilles appeal to Chinese car-buying tastes, a market now larger than the US. Remember their "top 1% consumer" is a population larger than the entire US. Look, that giant kidney is even smaller than the current Mazda 3 and Hyundai Elantra!









- - - Updated - - -

The more you look at that ridiculous Mercedes Maybach, the more sensible the new 8 looks...

[tvjake2]

It may be that BMW were so disappointed with the reception of the E31 that this is the way they forget about it. No design mimics to link them.

[olinjohnston]

It may be that BMW were so disappointed with the reception of the E31 that this is the way they forget about it. No design mimics to link them.

If you look closely, there are actually some...

2019-BMW-8-Series-Concept-Photos-001.jpg
beh_4802.jpg
Screen Shot 2017-08-21 at 6.43.24 PM.jpg

[bruinbro]

[taylorpatterson]

I agree with Olin - you can't expect a car with 20 years since its last predecessor to be so closely derived from the original. Kinda like expecting a Ford F150 to resemble the Model TT - to go all hyperbolic. A lot has happened in the car world since 1989 and large grilles are the trend these days. I humbly submit that, based on Olin's examples above from other manufacturers, BMW's current 'grille size' is actually quite minimalist by comparison.

More from Adrian von Hooydonk on both the new Eight Series and Z4 concept designs and grilles from Pebble Beach last week:

[Alec Cartio]

If you look closely, there are actually some... <img src="https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=608300"/> <img src="https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=608301"/> <img src="https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=608302"/>

Me, Taylor and Gary sat in the car the other day. A lot of similarities to the E31 in the cabin, specially the front console.
Gary also noted that the car has the most shark like nose he has seen to date on any bmw. I agree with him on that.

[kiwiCSi]

heh heh I knew them kidneys would strike some nerves. After being told and seeing the pics I have to agree, they do look like "blaring Rhino nostrils" ... maybe if they'd just tone them down a few notches. I don't think people are expecting an E31 nose but something a bit more "svelte" might be closer to the target. No?

Yes.

[M6csi]

Here is a quick and simple solution to the new 8's controversial front end (in particular, the kidneys): Transplant the new Z4's front end styling and the new super coupe will look 10 times better.