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Thread: Soliciting input: ALL E31 owners - I am meeting with designer Adrian van Hooydonk

  1. #1
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    Soliciting input: ALL E31 owners - I am meeting with designer Adrian van Hooydonk

    Right now I am filming a second video with BMW. They are using my new white CSi in the video and plan to cross promote it with the US unveiling of the New Eight Series tomorrow here at Pebble Beach.

    https://www.instagram.com/bmwusa/ and https://www.instagram.com/petrolicious/
    There should be postings of Part 1 any hour now. Part 2 will post tomorrow after 3pm PST.

    As part of the filming, I might get 5-10 minutes of Q&A with Adrian van Hooydonk, Head of BMW Design and key to the design of the New Eight Series coming in 2018.

    So what questions do you, the classic E31 Eight Series Community, yearn to ask a guy like this about the new Eight Series?

    I can't promise I'll get to ask EVERY question but if themes arise, I want ask about what you want to know about!

    Please reply to this post as soon as you can. Tomorrow (Friday) is likely my only opportunity to get with Mr. Hooydonk.

    Thanks in advance,

    Taylor
    Last edited by taylorpatterson; 08-16-2017 at 07:27 PM.
    Taylor in Carlsbad

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    Wow, very cool. Any place we can check for coverage of the unveiling tomorrow?

    My question would be how does driving it compare to an E31 (assuming he's driven one)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by David9999999 View Post
    Wow, very cool. Any place we can check for coverage of the unveiling tomorrow?
    Good question - thanks.

    https://www.instagram.com/bmwusa/ and https://www.instagram.com/petrolicious/
    Should be postings of Part 1 any hour now. Part 2 will post tomorrow after 3pm PST.
    Taylor in Carlsbad

    P=(p x v3 x Cd x A)/2

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    Why doesent the new 8 resemble the classic design?


    Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

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    Many people (myself included) love everything about the new shape, except for that kidney grille.
    Are BMW absolutely set on this design for the front of the 8-series?
    If so, I fear they will lose many fans - and potentially buyers as well - over this aspect of the new car.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon850 View Post
    Why doesent the new 8 resemble the classic design?
    For the same reason why the E63 6-Series doesn't look the the E24 6-Series it "replaced."


    It has been 30 years since the E31 was designed. Many of the key elements of the E31 would not even meet regulatory standards today (e.g. shape/height/angle of front end, pop-up headlights, etc.) and what would be the point of having a new exotic BMW resemble one they already built? Not to mention, you might forget that the E31 was NOT considered a sales success at BMW. It took many years for the general public to warm up to it again, and the rumors still persist about what a "nightmare" they are. So I think they would want to keep some sort of distance from it, even though they are drawing on the E31 a little bit for marketing purposes. "Throwback" cars are never as cool as everyone says they would be. Look at the Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, etc. - their resemblance to their classic counterpart is there, but adds no value.



    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiCSi View Post
    Many people (myself included) love everything about the new shape, except for that kidney grille.
    Are BMW absolutely set on this design for the front of the 8-series?
    If so, I fear they will lose many fans - and potentially buyers as well - over this aspect of the new car.
    BMW "fans" usually buy 20 year old models. The new cars are designed to appeal to consumers that DIDN'T want a BMW before...
    Last edited by olinjohnston; 08-16-2017 at 10:43 PM.

  7. #7
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    I second Kiwi's statements verbatim... BMW has done so many amazing homage designs, I just wish they had used some of those skills on the new 8 Series... I just can't wrap my brain around the protruding kidney grills.

    P. S. Tomorrow is Thursday, not Friday
    Last edited by Chamberlin; 08-16-2017 at 10:48 PM.
    2006 R53 JCW (British Racing Green) - 1994 E31 840Ci 6spd (AVUS Blue)
    2021 F56 JCW (Rebel Green) - 2000 E38 740i Sport (Titanium Silver)
    2017 F26 X4 M40i (Carbon Black) - 2007 E91 328iT (Deep Green)
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    2005 E53 X5 3.0i Sport (Kalahari Beige) - 2000 E36/7 M Roadster (Oxford Green)
    2000 E38 740i Sport (Oxford Green) - 1999 E36 M3 Coupe (Fern Green)
    1995 E31 840Ci Canadian (Oxford Green) - 2000 E36/8 M Coupe (Oxford Green)
    2004 E46 330Ci (Oxford Green) - 2001 E36/8 Z3 3.0i Coupe (Oxford Green)
    2002 E39 525i Sport (Oxford Green) - 2002 E36/7 M Roadster (Oxford Green)
    2001 E53 X5 3.0i Sport (Oxford Green) - 2007 E63 M6 (Silver Grey)
    1995 E31 840Ci (Oxford Green) - 2006 E86 M Coupe (Sepang Bronze)
    2001 E39 530i Sport (Aspen Silver) - 2009 E92 M3 (Space Grey)
    2001 E38 740i Sport (Sahara Beige) - 2008 E92 M3 (Melbourne Red)
    2000 E38 740i Sport Canadian (Sahara Beige) - 1997 E31 850Ci (Jet Black)

  8. #8
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    This question is for Chamberlin and me: Are they going to offer the new 8 series in Oxford Green Metallic?
    1994 850CSi, 2007 M5, 1990 VW Westy Syncro, 2010 e61 Touring Manual

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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cheese View Post
    This question is for Chamberlin and me: Are they going to offer the new 8 series in Oxford Green Metallic?
    *That* is a great question! With modern day saddle/walnut/Modena/cinnamon equivalent leather!

    Here's a question that stems from the Major's: How soon will the individual program be made available for 8 series buyers? Would you consider having the individual program available from day one, and likening the 8 series to the Rolls-Royce philosophy of every one is customizable?
    2006 R53 JCW (British Racing Green) - 1994 E31 840Ci 6spd (AVUS Blue)
    2021 F56 JCW (Rebel Green) - 2000 E38 740i Sport (Titanium Silver)
    2017 F26 X4 M40i (Carbon Black) - 2007 E91 328iT (Deep Green)
    2012 E82 135i M Sport (Marrakesh Brown) - 2015 E84 X1 (Cashmere Silver)
    2005 E53 X5 3.0i Sport (Kalahari Beige) - 2000 E36/7 M Roadster (Oxford Green)
    2000 E38 740i Sport (Oxford Green) - 1999 E36 M3 Coupe (Fern Green)
    1995 E31 840Ci Canadian (Oxford Green) - 2000 E36/8 M Coupe (Oxford Green)
    2004 E46 330Ci (Oxford Green) - 2001 E36/8 Z3 3.0i Coupe (Oxford Green)
    2002 E39 525i Sport (Oxford Green) - 2002 E36/7 M Roadster (Oxford Green)
    2001 E53 X5 3.0i Sport (Oxford Green) - 2007 E63 M6 (Silver Grey)
    1995 E31 840Ci (Oxford Green) - 2006 E86 M Coupe (Sepang Bronze)
    2001 E39 530i Sport (Aspen Silver) - 2009 E92 M3 (Space Grey)
    2001 E38 740i Sport (Sahara Beige) - 2008 E92 M3 (Melbourne Red)
    2000 E38 740i Sport Canadian (Sahara Beige) - 1997 E31 850Ci (Jet Black)

  10. #10
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    The E31 was a technology showcase. What new technologies will the new 8 showcase? Also, the e31 is definitely a GT car. Is that what the new 8 is? Finally, will there be the performance to allow a race program?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cheese View Post
    This question is for Chamberlin and me: Are they going to offer the new 8 series in Oxford Green Metallic?
    And me!
    Mike Barrett
    94 850CSi, Hellrot over silbergrau dunkel/silbergrau hell
    96 850Ci, Oxfordgrun over silbergrau hell

  12. #12
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    [ It has been 30 years since the E31 was designed. Many of the key elements of the E31 would not even meet regulatory standards today (e.g. shape/height/angle of front end, pop-up headlights, etc.) and what would be the point of having a new exotic BMW resemble one they already built? Not to mention, you might forget that the E31 was NOT considered a sales success at BMW. It took many years for the general public to warm up to it again, and the rumors still persist about what a "nightmare" they are. So I think they would want to keep some sort of distance from it, even though they are drawing on the E31 a little bit for marketing purposes. "Throwback" cars are never as cool as everyone says they would be. Look at the Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, etc. - their resemblance to their classic counterpart is there, but adds no value. ]


    Man, Olin. You said it so well. Those would be my exact words too. Previous BMW cars that has resemblance to their predecessors but didn't do too well on the first model iteration were the: BMW Z3, and BMW Z8. It was cool they designed the cars retro style but the fad faded quickly. Same thing with the Ford Thunderbird...all but a distant past now.

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    I just have to add my distaste for the proposed grill on the new car. The small (height) and wide front end of the E31, with its resemblance to the turbo concept car, is one of the best features. I'm not sure if you can appropriately phrase it as a question... but it was a distinctive design element that it seems will never be revived. I think the new car would look better with multiple air intakes at the front, rather than the massive storm drain on the concept.

    Mark in mid-MO
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    Will the NA market also get the benefit of a manual 6 speed transmission like the previous two large coupe generations (E63...and the other one that came after )
    CB42366 - 1991 850i 6-speed. Brilliantrot & Black Nappa Leather
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaifanSC View Post
    Will the NA market also get the benefit of a manual 6 speed transmission like the previous two large coupe generations (E63...and the other one that came after )
    Yes! I bet BMW could add a premium to the price if they offered a manual gearbox. No high-end automobile manufacturers make 3-pedal cars anymore . . . and people still want them.

    Sean

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sniff38 View Post
    No high-end automobile manufacturers make 3-pedal cars anymore . . . and people still want them.
    These are the current BMW models that can be optioned with a 6-speed manual:

    230i Coupe
    M240i Coupe
    M240i Convertible
    M2 Coupe
    320i Sedan
    330i Sedan
    340i Sedan
    M3 Sedan
    430i Coupe
    440i Coupe
    M4 Coupe
    M4 Convertible
    M6 Gran Coupe
    M6 Convertible

    Z4 Roadster and M6 Coupe are no longer being produced, but were also available with manuals.

    The truth is they don't sell. We can argue the case for them, but even in the performance cars, no one wants them. The VERY few who do will special order their cars. Even seeing a manual in a new M car is extraordinarily rare for several reasons: 1. The manual is no longer the "performance" gearbox. The dual-clutch is so fast that the manuals have significantly slower acceleration times. For the "blog readers" those comparison specs are crucial even if they never drag race the car. 2. More people drive them in traffic and are lazy. People are more interested in cars that allow them to text, read emails, and use smartphone apps. You think they want to be bothered with clutching and picking a gear every time? Different times we live in. 3. Enthusiasts aren't the ones buying brand new BMWs. The original owners (lessees) couldn't care less about the things that us car lovers are into.

    Working at a BMW dealer, I once ordered an M-Sport 2-Series with a manual to show to the sales manager that people would buy manuals if we had them in stock. The car stayed in inventory until we had to buy a new battery for it.
    Last edited by olinjohnston; 08-17-2017 at 10:55 PM.

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    +1 to question the gigantic protruding grille. E31, M1, and Z1 are still the only BMWs that have an elegant set of nostrils. Why not incorporate that as the nostalgia element for the new 8 but keep the rest of the design fresh and new?
    "Asphalt is evil, it must be punished!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Budget M3 View Post
    +1 to question the gigantic protruding grille. E31, M1, and Z1 are still the only BMWs that have an elegant set of nostrils. Why not incorporate that as the nostalgia element for the new 8 but keep the rest of the design fresh and new?
    The intercooler needs for the twin-turbo V8 are more than nostrils provide...and the GIGANTIC grill-face seems to be a thing with all new cars.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon850 View Post
    Why doesent the new 8 resemble the classic design?


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    +8

    I would like to know his opinion on why they ditched some of the hallmark features of the 8.

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    We might tend to forget that the e31 was a new and somewhat bold design when it was unveiled. It wasn't retro anything. Why would we expect anything different from the new 8?

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    Quote Originally Posted by olinjohnston View Post
    The intercooler needs for the twin-turbo V8 are more than nostrils provide...and the GIGANTIC grill-face seems to be a thing with all new cars.
    Easy enough to get extra air to the intercoolers with additional grilles on either side of the nostrils just like the e31 has supplemental grilles on the sides to get cooling air to the radiator so the kidney does not have to be gigantic....and I agree this seems to be a thing on modern BMWs for design but it's not pretty.
    "Asphalt is evil, it must be punished!"
    '89 Z1 Dream Black/Alcantara/Camo, Racing Dynamics, the coolest doors known to man -- Sunny days & Sundays
    '90 Z1 Red w/custom red/black French leather, Ground Control coil overs, BBS RV-F --Mais Oui!
    '91 850i Mauritius Blue/Black --1 of 179

    '85 M635CSi Alpine -- "Explosive!!!"
    '03 M3 Conv, Imola w/ SMG -- her daily driver
    '17 “30 Jahre” M3, Macao Blue -- 1/500 made


    Previously owned: 74 2002 (x2), 85 325e, 80 323i Baur, 94 325iC, 03 325CiC, 80 633CSi, 90 325iC, 98 318ti (Budget M3), 01 X5, 02 X5 4.6is (x2), 94 M3, 98 M3/4, 16 340i

  22. #22
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    99% of people do not know what the old 8 was, so why would they put any of it in the new design. And when it goes into production the grills may look different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by olinjohnston View Post
    The truth is they don't sell. We can argue the case for them, but even in the performance cars, no one wants them.
    Thanks for the insight, but I respectfully disagree with your assessment of "no one" wanting them, especially in the performance cars. All the manual gearbox cars you listed are BMW's. My comment wasn't meant to apply only to this particular marque. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

    Buyers of new, high end performance cars are finding fewer and fewer options when it comes to manual transmission cars. Hence they're looking to the older models to fill the need (and paying good money for them). Just look at F-Cars -- the fact that 328's hover near 6 figures now and the 550 Maranello (offered as 6-speeds only) doubled in price in the last 5 years indicate people are still nostalgic for manual transmission cars. Same exact thing with Porsches, 911's in particular. Porsche purists nearly mutinied when Stuttgart announced GT3s would only be offered with PDKs. There's a reason why the 2016 911R, which stickered for $185K, now sells for $.5M on the second-hand market. Sure it's limited edition, but the fact they all have manual gearboxes helps drive the price to that level. The recent rise in value of stick shift collector cars occurring at the same time many automakers started eliminating manual gearboxes from their line-up is no coincidence. Yes, there may be less demand for 3-pedal cars in the broader sense, but there's still demand out there.

    Granted the examples I just named are all sports cars while the new 8 series is a GT cruiser. I get it -- different audience and different purpose. I was only suggesting BMW could get away with charging extra for a manual gearbox option. I'm not saying equip all the new 8's this way . . . simply offer it as an option. If dealers don't want to roll the dice and have them on their showroom floor, then save the manuals for custom orders. Not every potential buyer battles constant bumper-to-bumper traffic (where people generally prefer to have auto transmissions in their daily drivers). There are some who still have access to open roads and prefer to row their own gears. But unfortunately it's all about the bottom line with automakers which drives them to take the safest, most profitable route that caters to the broadest audience. I don't hold out much hope we'll see 3 pedals in the new 8 series. But if they did, that's the one I'd buy.

    Sean

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    Again, you're not talking about new cars, you're talking about old ones. Enthusiasts are not buying/leasing brand new manuals in droves.

    Jaguar released a manual version of the F-Type Coupe awhile back. Call up your local Jag dealer and ask them how many they sell....

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    Quote Originally Posted by barry8108 View Post
    99% of people do not know what the old 8 was, so why would they put any of it in the new design. And when it goes into production the grills may look different.
    The reason they should put a little of it into the new design is:

    1. It looks better
    2. It would not detract at all from the overall new modern design of the rest of the car
    3. The small nod to heritage would appeal to enthusiasts both young and old (and would in fact be a strong marketing move by BMW to link to their successful legacy)
    4. The design would remain timeless instead of looking out of date in 10-20 years when grilles will be a thing of the past anyway (e.g. see Tesla Model 3)

    Just my $.02, but I think there are many that would agree with me. Let's hope there is still time and enough discussion on the topic with the designers to make this small change.

    Love everything else about the new car, though!
    Last edited by Budget M3; 08-18-2017 at 06:55 PM.

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