M60B40 - recommended oil viscosity/grade

[Legoman]

I've looked in my owner's manual for this, but it leaves itself wide open to BMW being able to change their mind about who they recommend to use depending on which oil supplier they happen to sign a supply contract with into the future. In essence, the manual doesn't make any firm recommendations about either brand nor viscosity index to be used for engine oil. My M60B40 engine is currently running Mobil 1 0W-40 oil it. Not my choice at all, rather it's just what ended up going in there when the engine was undergoing much more critical works with gasket leaks, such that I didn't have the time or inclination to argue about the type of oil that was going to be used. Mechanic just uses Mobil 1 and so that's what got used.

I don't particularly like Mobil 1 oil. It tends to go black very quickly here with contamination from the fuel and whilst I'm assured it's just a discolouration, rather than actually being dirty, it doesn't look good. It's also alarmingly thin when poured from the bottle particularly in this 0W weight. It's so water-like to pour it just doesn't seem like oil at all. More like pouring kerosene-based WD-40 lubricant into your engine.

I don't live in a cold climate and the car doesn't reside outside either. It never gets below 0°C here, but it does get above 40°C in the summer. I would like to hear what engine oils others with this engine recommend please? As a starting point I think an oil of at least 10W weight would be more appropriate for use where I am.

Car has done 240,000km now and has no burning oil consumption issues nor running problems. Just looking for a more age-appropriate oil for the next change rather than the water-thin oils manufacturers like to recommend for brand new engines to help them pass emissions tests and produce favourable fuel consumption figures as the prime considerations whilst almost ignoring engine longevity considerations.

[shogun]

from the website of Castrol Australia

BMW 740iL E32 Series, 4.0 Litre V8 M60 Eng., Auto. (1992-1994)
CASTROL EDGE 10W-60 SN
CASTROL GTX HIGH MILEAGE 15W-50
CASTROL GTX 20W-50
http://www.castrol.com/en_au/austral...oil-types.html
http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/castr_au/

[Legoman]

CASTROL GTX 20W-50

is it then in that case. Especially so since I have a container of it already from a previous car with 3 litres left.

[XAlt]

is it then in that case. Especially so since I have a container of it already from a previous car with 3 litres left.

Ancient oil is ancient.

[Legoman]

Ancient oil is ancient.

and also the most suitable for an old car with an old engine.

[B320i]

from the website of Castrol Australia

BMW 740iL E32 Series, 4.0 Litre V8 M60 Eng., Auto. (1992-1994)
CASTROL EDGE 10W-60 SN
CASTROL GTX HIGH MILEAGE 15W-50
CASTROL GTX 20W-50
http://www.castrol.com/en_au/austral...oil-types.html
http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/castr_au/

I don't know what it is about Australian oil sites and recommending crazy-thick grades like 10w-60 for a big NA V8 like the M60. That grade was used in M-series engines for the 3 and 5 series. Penrite's site suggested 20w60 to me, for my 320i E36, from memory. That is beyond ridiculous.

I suspect BMW would have specified fairly similar oils between all models in the early 1990s. Probably API SG oils meeting CCMC-G5 (this predates ACEA A3/B3 or B4). So I'd be saying GTX 15w40 - its a stout oil (HTHS of 3.9) and carries the A3/B3 specification from memory. 20w50 wouldn't be an issue either, if you have some leftover.

[shogun]

usually the oil is selected for the climate, Australia has the cars in hot climate version, for example the visco clutch fan has a different pulley like my M70 for hot climate countries, runs faster, my Japan spec 750 even has more engine oil due to a larger engine oil cooler.
I once got from an autodata CD for my M70:
engine code 50 12A (M70 engine)
cold climate SAE 5W30
moderate climate 10W40
hot climate 15W40
Engine oil classification: API/ACEA SH/A2-96

engine oil - alternative - moderate climate SAE 10W60 Synthetic
engine oil - alternative - moderate climate API/ACEA SH/A3-96

Volume: Engine with filter: 7.5 litres, M70 engine
Japan version M70 engine: 8.25 litres with filter

[Legoman]

I don't know what it is about Australian oil sites and recommending crazy-thick grades like 10w-60 for a big NA V8 like the M60. That grade was used in M-series engines for the 3 and 5 series. Penrite's site suggested 20w60 to me, for my 320i E36, from memory. That is beyond ridiculous.

I suspect BMW would have specified fairly similar oils between all models in the early 1990s. Probably API SG oils meeting CCMC-G5 (this predates ACEA A3/B3 or B4). So I'd be saying GTX 15w40 - its a stout oil (HTHS of 3.9) and carries the A3/B3 specification from memory. 20w50 wouldn't be an issue either, if you have some leftover.

To be fair Penrite really does market itself as oil for big-bore bogan Holden/Ford/Chevy V8 engines and pretty much nothing else. Penrite is well known as the oil to put in when you want to sell your big bore V8 engined car that has lots of oil leaks you don't want to spend any money on getting fixed. I wouldn't ever dream of putting Penrite in any BMW. Penrite is 2 parts oil, 1 part glue.

My gut feel is that Mobil oils are too light right across their range. They pour like water. Don't even look or feel like oil. I'm sure I'd have a different opinion if I lived somewhere that snows or regularly gets below 0°C in winter, but I don't and I don't like the chain tensioner rattle that results at startup from the too-light oil bleeding out of the chain tensioner overnight.

Shell Helix oils have a weird chemical reaction with unleaded petrol down here that turns it jet black almost instantly upon contact. So a week after you do an oil change with Shell Helix and check the dipstick level you find the oil is jet black. I'm told it's just a discolouration thing and nothing to worry about, but it doesn't look good at all. I think Shell oil is marketed under the Pennzoil brand in the US now.

I haven't had a lot to do with Castrol (BP) oil up until now, but an Opel/Saturn/Holden/Vauxhall Astra I bought as a runabout with a full service history + receipts has always had Castol Magnatec oil in it from new, so I decided not to change that and have kept that history going since purchase. It uses a 10W-40 oil which also seems quite thin and light in the pouring, though no where near as ridiculously so as Mobil 1 which may as well be liquid water.

Given that I'm keeping the Castol going in the Astra, I'm happy to give it run in the 740iL too and see how it goes. I probably won't stick with the 20W-50 long term though. Just use it once to use up this 3 litres I have left over and then switch back to a 10W-40 or 15W-40 type semi-synthetic long term.

My gut feel is that 20W-50 is probably more suited to cast iron block engines with their rather coarser grain structure than the aluminium blocks of the M60B40.

[XAlt]

20w50 wont damage anything.

Factory fill on the V12 until 15w40 and later 0w40/5w30 took over.

[mindwrecker]

Since my 840 was new from the dealership and all of its service records that the PO kept, the m60 in it has been run on Castrol 20w50. I continue to use it @ 157k miles and it runs great in Socal weather. 50-110F. smooth and purrs

[Legoman]

Since my 840 was new from the dealership and all of its service records that the PO kept, the m60 in it has been run on Castrol 20w50. I continue to use it @ 157k miles and it runs great in Socal weather. 50-110F. smooth and purrs

Perfect! That's what I wanted to hear.

Perth is very similar climate-wise to San Diego (so I'm told, I've never been to SoCal) and your temp range would support that theory. It's the absolute height of winter here right now and the forecast today is for a max of 17°C (63°F) and a minimum at 3am of 5°C (41°F) out at the airport and that's pretty much as cold as it gets. Is your car the original Nikasil block or was it one of the Alusil replacement recalls? If it's been west coast all it's life, I guess it might still be the Nikasil block what with not subject to being fed Venezuelan sulphur-rich oil imports back in the day.

Thanks for the confirmation of my intentions. Gives me more ammo to use against my mechanic who will no doubt tell me the world is going to end if I stray away from his slavish adherence to whatever the local BMW dealer recommends and sells, all whilst completely blind to the obvious vested interest they have in making the old models die as quickly as possible.

[B320i]

Mobil 1 0w40 no longer carries BMW LongLife spec either. It is on the lighter end of the -40 range when hot. GTX 15w40, on the other hand, is on the heavier end of the -40 weight due to the high HTHS figure.

I've run the M1, Rotella 5w40, Penrite 10w50 and Valvoline EngineArmour 15w40 in my M50. Startups on ALL have been tappety at times.

Use what you feel okay with. Any name-brand oil in 2017 is superior to what we had in the early 90s. The only thing to look for is the A3/B3 or B4 rating - which ensures the oil has the necessary shear resistance

[Legoman]

Use what you feel okay with. Any name-brand oil in 2017 is superior to what we had in the early 90s. The only thing to look for is the A3/B3 or B4 rating - which ensures the oil has the necessary shear resistance

This is the one thing I don't like about Castrol oils, they provide almost no information about the ratings or testing classification of their oils. Here's the sum total of everything they have to say about Castrol GTX 20W-50:
PDS 1
PDS 2

There's absolutely nothing on the actual bottle label either. It must be some kind of state secret or something.

[youngbimmer]

Not M60 related, but FWIW I use 15W40 supertech (yes, walmart brand oil) diesel oil in my M30B35. Supertech oil manufacturer varies by location, and in my area, it is made by Shell and is fully synthetic. A steal of a deal for 9.99 a gallon for fully synthetic oil with good zddp

[B320i]

This is the one thing I don't like about Castrol oils, they provide almost no information about the ratings or testing classification of their oils. Here's the sum total of everything they have to say about Castrol GTX 20W-50:
PDS 1
PDS 2

There's absolutely nothing on the actual bottle label either. It must be some kind of state secret or something.

Yeah, some of them never seem to give much hint as to what their oil is, or is not. I'm surprised its missing things like HTHS value, total base number (TBN) and viscosity measurements in Centistokes (cSt), too.

Couple of threads I've pulled from the forum for people who are OCD about motor oils, "BITOG." Maybe this will help, maybe it won't.
OP is from Arizona: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...73632&page=all
OP from Florida: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...pics/3679137/1

Basically, as a fellow Australian, you'll know all too well the issue of synthetic oils being very costly! So I'd certainly recommend a mineral oil, unless you can get a semi or fully synthetic from an oil distributor, or on sale at one of the parts stores.

Anyway, 15w40 or 20w50 will serve you just fine in Perth. We certainly have hot summers, but no worse than most parts of the USA. We certainly don't get to 45º - at least in the city. Out in the country, and up north is a bit different - in that case, you might take a thicker oil.

[Jormotors]

I've always ran castrol 20w50 in the summer and 10w40 in the winter. Never had any issues.

[Legoman]

Basically, as a fellow Australian, you'll know all too well the issue of synthetic oils being very costly! So I'd certainly recommend a mineral oil, unless you can get a semi or fully synthetic from an oil distributor, or on sale at one of the parts stores.

It's not so much the cost issue for me, though for sure paying up to $60 for 5 litres of oil is starting to get ridiculous, but I'm just naturally sceptical of this mad rush to fully synthetic oils like they're the new messiah or something. The mere fact that BMW regularly change their "official" approved oil supplier as and when it suits them to do so just rings my bullshit-o-meter like nothing else.

One minute, Mobil 1 oil is the only thing BMW recommends and if you dare put anything else in your car the warranty will be instantly void, you'll get hemerrhoids and a filthy case of halitosis. Then, just as soon as you've committed yourself to your favourite grade of Mobil 1, BMW suddenly change their minds and now Castrol is the best thing on Earth and Mobil 1 is no longer approved. All the BMW factory race cars start sporting Castrol logos all over them and you're suddenly an idiot if you use Mobil 1. So with difficulty, you adjust your thinking again and start to swallow the belief that Castrol is now the best. Then BMW ditch Castrol and now Shell oil is the best thing ever because they sponsor Ferrari and that must mean it's good for BMW too?!?!?!

This whole revolving circus is utter bullshit. The only thing you can be absolutely certain of being true is that accountants are deciding the brand & grades of approved oils recommended for BMWs, not anyone with any kind of engineering knowledge. If one oil manufacturer comes to BMW with a cheaper supply agreement than the incumbent, then you can be sure that oil supplier will become the new 'approved' supplier for the duration of that supply agreement and/or until it comes up again for renegotiation.

The other thing you can be sure of is that BMW have a very strong vested interest in ensuring that your car fails as quickly as possible. They want your car to last as long as the warranty so they don't lose too much reputation and to avoid too many claims, but after that, all bets are off. They actually want your car to die. They don't want your engine to last longer than it absolutely has to by virtue of using top quality oils of the correct viscosity.

Finally, legislative emission testing and fuel economy demands are pushing the ever lightening of recommended oil viscosities. Where once upon a time 0W grade oils were unheard of or at the very least extremely expensive to source, now they're common place and recommended almost everywhere, yet to the best of my knowledge the next ice-age hasn't started yet. Why? Because oil thats as thin as water is very easy to push a revolving crankshaft through with little resistance. You'll burn a bit less fuel and produce a few less NOx doing so too and that all looks good on the sales brochure and helps to keep the EPA off your back. Sure, the engine will probably crap itself after 100-150K's, but that's just an added bonus. By then the car will be out of warranty anyway and the owner will have to come back and buy another new one! Cha-ching!!!

My scepticism is also driven by a single line in the owner's manual for my ///M635CSi's M88/3 engine: "Use only mineral oils to SF specification and viscosity classification SAE 15W-40. Low friction oils are not approved."

[Oleh007]

I live in Carpinteria which is close to the coast and the temperature ranges from 70F-90F all year long, with an average estimate of like around 75-80 when I would drive during the day. I used the 10W-40 mobile one oil, and I haven't had any significant rattle show up and I think the engine runs pretty clean.

[Legoman]

I initially thought you meant you live here

Pretty bloody hot & sweaty up there I assure you! Definitely NOT BMW country. That's Toyota Landcruiser land up there. You'd be an idiot taking anything else there except maybe a Blackhawk helicopter from Tindal airbase. For one, if you broke down, you'd never find any parts or anyone capable of working on anything else other than a Landcruiser.
1280px-A_USMC_FA-18C_at_RAAF_Base_Tindal_in_July_2016.jpg

[stayathommedad]

Apologies for beating a dead horse. I don’t know anyone else in social that has an 840 and I just acquired one. Happily have my dream car

An oil change is due and I was wondering if you were using gtx conventional. The api support Sn plus which I find that the new liqui moly gen doesn’t. Not sure about the ?02 friction branded? But the new green bottles.

The car has 151k miles and it runs smooth has had one owner. The car was gone through but can’t find anything on the oil.

Wouldnusing conventional after synthetic ballon the seals?

Thanks so much guys so stoked to be here with fellow e31 peoples.

Warm regards

N

Since my 840 was new from the dealership and all of its service records that the PO kept, the m60 in it has been run on Castrol 20w50. I continue to use it @ 157k miles and it runs great in Socal weather. 50-110F. smooth and purrs

[shogun]

go to FCP EURO, they have 8 Ltr. oil change kits for your car including a Mann oil filter, gasket, all listed there fits https://www.fcpeuro.com/BMW-parts/84...=5&b=9&d=70&v=
use synthetic oil

[letank]

ha, ha, an oil thread... here: castrol 20W50 when going to the oil change place... or when going for service, what the indie uses ... asbestos suit on... 15W40 rotella conventional, yes the diesel oil, 130K runs fine.

But back to your quest... you cannot go wrong with the castrol conventional... usually the seals leak when going to synthetic because the synthetic dissolves the crusty bits... this is the theory...

[m60power]

I can't remember what the "correct" oil is for the m60 engine, but for what it's worth I've used Castrol edge synthetic 0w-40 for many years now in all my BMWs including the m60 cars. I use this oil all year around in Florida. Even a 0W-40 weight oil is still thicker when the engine is at 100F ambient temperature compared to when the engine is up to its ~200F operating temp. So generally, choose the 2nd number of the oil weight based on what viscosity you want for the engine operating temp, and get the lowest 'w' winter weight for that oil grade.