E36 LS Swap Questions

[olemiss540]

BFC!

I have learned a great deal due to this subforum, and am diving into a LS Swap conversion on a gutted/race prepared e36 with a few questions for the pros:

1. LS1 engine block is bare, and need to buy all the accessories (WP, Balancer, Alternator) but no need for power steering or AC. Any advice as to which model vehicle accessories would be best? Would corvette accessories be the most compact or stick with FBODY accessories for some reason?

2. Is a stock e36 aluminum radiator sufficient for on track cooling (no street legal), or would you recommend MCoupe/aftermarket radiator?

3. Race car was previously running Alpha - N tuned DTA P8 Pro standalone system with an electronic dash (mychron gold display), what would be the easiest path for engine wiring and ECU? Their is no ABS/TC/AC/etc, so should be easy to wire up. Curious if I should stick to the DTA system, or if there is a simple method for an alternative?

Thanks in advance for all of your knowledge, and I will post some build pics soon!

[Albertan]

I used gen 1 Cadillac CTSV everything. Mostly because I have a CTSV and could figure how things would work. It makes for the shortest front accessories. If you do not need PS I don't know how that would affect belt orientation.
Stock rad won't work very well. I have a aftermarket rad with twin electric fans. Never overheats

[olemiss540]

I used gen 1 Cadillac CTSV everything. Mostly because I have a CTSV and could figure how things would work. It makes for the shortest front accessories. If you do not need PS I don't know how that would affect belt orientation.
Stock rad won't work very well. I have a aftermarket rad with twin electric fans. Never overheats

Bump for other input!

[doktor b]

fbody FEAD is common because it clears and it's readily available.

deleting PS is pretty straightforward. pretty sure you have to toss in an idler. but that's easy. may be able to get away with just running a shorter belt. i don't remember off the top of my head. a quick search on google or LS1Tech will get you what you need as far as deleting the PS.

deleting AC is nbd. just don't put that crap on.

the radiator thing is a hotly contested topic. (oh snap! puns!)
i have a smallish JEG's scirocco-style dragster radiator with shroud and a Mishimoto paddle fan as well as ducting from the fascia to the radiator. forcing the air where you want it will make any radiator more efficient than just hoping the air will go through it. i've seen others use stock location, stock style radiators without issue. an all aluminum e36 radiator (Koyo, Zionsville, Mishi, etc) with proper ducting and fan(s) will be sufficient.

i run the GM PCM with a GM harness modified to suit my needs. i run a speed-density tune. no MAF to fail and easy to route/modify intake. integrating the dash into the GM PCM/harness should be pretty straightforward as the LS1 is popular with the racing crowd. or if you still have all your DTA bits, see if you can just make/buy an LS1 harness. that would be really easy. there aren't a lot of sensors on an ls1, so even making a harness isn't terribly difficult.



- - - Updated - - -

oh yeah. i have an fbody crank pulley if you want one for cheap. i run a Fluidampr. so i've never installed it.

[Zanthor991]

Has anyone used an LS Simple accessory bracket? I've got truck accessories but the alternator sits too high. LS Simple looks pretty nice and should fit.

[LSxDreamer]

Has anyone used an LS Simple accessory bracket? I've got truck accessories but the alternator sits too high. LS Simple looks pretty nice and should fit.

Most people would argue the truck accessories stick out too far to utilize behind the stock radiator location

[Fair]

1. LS1 engine block is bare, and need to buy all the accessories (WP, Balancer, Alternator) but no need for power steering or AC. Any advice as to which model vehicle accessories would be best? Would corvette accessories be the most compact or stick with FBODY accessories for some reason?

There are a bunch of ways you can go with LS accessories... we have built 100+ of our E36 LS swaps around the "4th gen" 1998-02 F-body LS accessories because they are the most compact drives ever made for an LS Gen III/IV engine. These drives keep the accessories NARROW and LOW - notice how the alternator was not sticking up high like the C5/C6 Corvette bits. These drives were also abundant and cheap for a long time...



Since we did our first swap in 2002, these 4th gen F-body accessory brackets have become less abundant and cheap, and now the factory doesn't make some of the parts anymore new (power steering bracket). There are aftermarket solutions, and this is still one of the easiest, no-brainer accessory drives to package in any LS V8 swap.



The C5 and C6 Corvette accessory drives are shorter front to back (the shortest), the F-body is in the middle, and the truck LS drives are much father forward. The truck stuff is a hot mess - just avoid that. We literally throw it all in the trash if we get a truck motor for some reason. The Corvette stuff, as shown above, has a VERY high mounted alternator that is also very wide. The P/S pump is set much wider as well, possibly in the way of the frame rail but definitely in the way of our ABS relocation/brake lines. We don't use that drive setup.



We have modified a C6 LS7 Corvette drive setup to use a low mounted alternator (from the LS2 CTS-V), with some custom idlers. This works well for a dry sump/power steering delete like the E46 M3 V8 shown above. I'll be showing more of this setup in my next update on this build thread.



As you can see the alternator is much closer to the frame rail with this "CTS-V position" than with the 4th gen F-body pics above. And this is an E46 chassis, which is 2" wider than the E36 (black M3 shown above).

2. Is a stock e36 aluminum radiator sufficient for on track cooling (no street legal), or would you recommend MCoupe/aftermarket radiator?

For a hot Ls motor, the stock E36 radiator is laughably small. Maybe for a drag-only car, but if you are going to lean on it hard, or road course it, or drive with air con its just basic math. With more power comes more excess heat to shed. A larger radiator is a smart investment.

https://vorshlag-store.com/collectio...minum-radiator

Mishimoto (above), CSF and others make cheap, drop-in E36 radiators that are all aluminum and have twice the volume of the stock aluminum/plastic jobs. Don't overthink this... upgrade.

3. Race car was previously running Alpha - N tuned DTA P8 Pro standalone system with an electronic dash (mychron gold display), what would be the easiest path for engine wiring and ECU? Their is no ABS/TC/AC/etc, so should be easy to wire up. Curious if I should stick to the DTA system, or if there is a simple method for an alternative?

Depends on your intended use. For most swaps the GM computers work well for the 24x or 58x reluctor that the engine you are using might have on the crank. The E36 is relatively easy to connect to the factory gauges (not CAN). Aftermarket computers are great but usually cost a tick more and have almost no chance of emissions compliance for street driven cars in most states.



For serious builds with high horsepower that need traction control, aftermarket is the only way to go. This car above has 700+ hp and is getting a Motec M130 for road course use. It all depends on what fits your budget and tuning comfort.

I also highlighted the No ABS... can I ask why? If this is strictly a drag car then maybe that makes sense. For any other use keeping the ABS is smart. On an E36 its a stand-alone system with its own computer, too. I literally just wrote about this on another thread...

Deleting ABS on this chassis leads to disastrous results. When an ABS module failed at the 2009 SCCA Solo Nationals it turned our otherwise excellent stopping, perfectly balanced E36 into a tire locking machine. It simply WOULD NOT stop.



BMW (and most car makers) started using the ABS system to dynamically balance the front and rear bias of the braking systems in cars long ago. Without ABS its a hot mess. Don't be a "hero" - you will ruin your braking system without ABS.

Are there still race cars without ABS? Very very few, and they have to give up braking potential and invest a lot of time in balancing the front/rear bias of their car to do without. They will ALWAYS stop worse than a similarly equipped/weight car with ABS.



My TTD prepped BMW 330 above (BBK + ABS) races on track against some cars that don't have ABS. They are lighter and should stop better, but pictures like this one at COTA show why non-ABS cars always have problems - locking tires. He ruined two front tires in the one stop. This BMW's tires wear smooth all the way down to the base rubber - no flat spot potential, ever.

#KeepTheABS

Good luck,

[fallguy]

I think I'm going to use the cts-v accessorie package from fm performance part number 19155066. It's really compact the whole kitnwoth AC is around 850$

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/Accessory-Drive-With-Air-Ls-Series-Engines-19155066-P10476.aspx

[pdsq98gt]

FYI you still will have to source a corvette balancer and water pump. You’ll also have to take .020” off of the back of the p/s pulley to be able to install an AN fitting for your homemade p/s hose. The factory ctsv p/s line is a push in quick connect job that would be tough to make work. But it does make for a very compact and neat FEAD.

[fallguy]

Thanks for the heads up. I do have the corvette water pump and summit sfi balancer for the corvette. Do not know about the pump tho.

[Inflame]

How ever much HP you're planning on making, will depend on what you need.

My LS6 car is a stock block making 375whp. I don't have ABS/TCS/ESC/AC/DBW/ABC you get the idea... I run a koyo rad with the largest SPAL puller fan I could fit and took out the thermostat. With proper ducting my coolant doesn't go above 205-210 after a hard 20 minute session (I am not easy on this car). As for oil cooling, I run an Earls 42 row cooler right in front of the radiator, oil temp is 210-220 on a hot day.

My accessory drive is off an F-body, the P/S pump has a stock sized Turn One pulley but my crank is an ATI 10% under drive. Make sure you cool the P/S fluid and run redline fluid or else you'll kill your pump. I've gone 3 years on this setup with no issues. I know you don't want to run P/S, but I am 100% against that. My P/S pulley (oem plastic) broke at the track one day and I couldn't last more than 3-4 laps without having to pull in from fatigue... I'm not a tiny guy or out of shape, I am physically fit. It's not worth it IMO.

I use the stock LS PCM and made it work with the stock E36 cluster. Speed is off the differential, RPM output is changed to make the E36 input, and I run a autometer gauge for coolant temps.

[fallguy]

https://www.flyinmiata.com/cts-v-ada...estrictor.html

looks like you can use this on the cts-v pump.

[pdsq98gt]

Where was that 4 years ago?! The only thing I would be worried about is the fact that it reduces the assist. The assist on my ctsv pump feels about right.

[fallguy]

The only thing I would be worried about is the fact that it reduces the assist. The assist on my ctsv pump feels about right.

It might just regulate it when the RPM is up, making it more consistent.

[olemiss540]

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Fair/Inflame/fallguy/etc,

First event was last weekend! She dyno'ed at 405whp during her breakin/tuning session at SpeedInc last week, and apparently I didnt screw up the harness too bad. Have learned a LOT throughout this process, ended up with only the GM PCM's as the electronic dash allowed me to keep it SIMPLE. Car with a 42 row oil cooler (generic) and fatboy style Mcoupe aluminum radiator held 190-195 all weekend even through some BRUTAL heat.

All of this could not have been possible without the forums and particularly Terry's and the other hardcore swap folks' advice. Running flared RC-1's (275/35/17) ended up being awesome as it seemed perfectly balanced, handled the heat well, and was a perfect fit with the short diameter. Car couldnt have performed better and was passing by some SERIOUS sheetmetal costing many times what my build was!

Obligatory pics attached!

Edit: Why oh why must this forum screw with my pictures!