Anyone delete a Sunroof in an E46 ? Please share experience & offer advice :)

[BryDog]

Ok, I have an E46 330 and am considering losing the sunroof. I never use it. The panel slides all the time. It doesn't always open and shut without help. And, it's heavy as hell, I think 75lbs.

Anyone ever put in the sunroof delete ??

Choices seem to be:

Fiberglass or Carbon F
ECS
Hard Motorsport
AJ Hartman
Bimmerworld & Turner have them

Which one is best and why ???

BryDog

[darbyfam]

I used the S2R Tuning delete on my E36 and was quite impressed with the quality. I am sure the E46 version is of similar quality.

http://www.s2rtuning.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1841

[BryDog]

That looks like a good one. Did you clear coat it before install ?

[bjh102]

+1 for s2r. Figment and quality are amazing on the carbon insert for my e36. They were sometimes hard to get in touch with and I have heard some stories about them taking a long time to ship the panels. I personally didn't have an issue Mine took about 2 weeks from time of payment to it being in my hands.

Also no need to clear coat the carbon one.

[darbyfam]

It comes clear coated. Mine has been on the car for two years or so and still looks new.

I have had my best luck PMing them through FB. I have the sunroof delete, headlight delete in carbon and the dash panels in carbon.

[jakermac]

I got one of the 1st CF E36 Coupe panels from S2R back in October 2011. It's been on the car for 6 years now. Daily driver in the Pacific Northwest that gets parked in a garage at night, but sits in the sun, rain, snow, heat, cold all day almost every day. I've never had a leak of any kind and the clearcoat has stood the test of time, unlike the clearcoat on my VIS CF hood that has been faded/damaged by UV for the last year or 2, and it's a year younger than the sunroof plug.

[BryDog]

sounds like the one to go with

I'll put it on my wish list ... $$$$

thanks

[dcvee]

Another S2R user...fitment is superb. Mounting holes lined up with factory holes. Piece-O-Cake.

Don

[BryDog]

Approximately how long does it take to do this job ?

[NeilM]

Another S2R user...fitment is superb. Mounting holes lined up with factory holes. Piece-O-Cake.

Don

And another happy S2R panel user (E36) here. Fit and finish are crazy good. I had mine painted to match the car, so can't testify as to original UV resistance/durability.

Approximately how long does it take to do this job ?

Depends on how obsessive you are and what sort of result you're looking for. Much easier for a race car, since you'd discard the headliner and not worry too much about some of the finer details.

For a street or mixed use car where you care about fit and finish you want to take your time. The first issue is not to damage the headliner during removal/replacement. A second pair of hands can be helpful for those parts of the job, especially the reinstallation. Next, what are you going to do about the sunroof aperture in the headliner? Then, these headliners are getting old and tend to sag at some point. This is a good time to get it recovered.

Since my car has a full interior and my headliner was already sagging I had an auto upholstery shop fill in the aperture and recover the whole thing. It helped that my wife has a 5-series wagon that's perfect for transporting large objects. This cost me $200 plus the headliner material (https://www.headlinerexpress.com). I did the headliner removal/replacement myself. Some owners do the new fabric themselves, but I'm glad I had a pro take care of it. There are tricks to getting it right, it's a large object to wrangle, and any visible imperfections will piss you off forever.

Removing the stock sunroof panel, rails and motor is relatively easy, at least on my E36. I'm assuming an E46 would be comparable other than the weight of the glass roof panel. A couple of hours and those plus the headliner are out.

The new CF panel gets screwed and glued in place. Make sure your screws are short enough not to contact the roof sheet metal and dimple it! Use 3M polyurethane windshield adhesive around the CF panel flange to glue it in place. This is horrendously sticky stuff to work with: protective gloves, mineral spirits for in progress clean-up, and extreme care throughout are essential. However it really does the job. Because this stuff doesn't smooth out easily, don't use it for the externally visible bead, only for the internal seal. After installation fill in the external channel, which is very narrow, with a minimal bead of clear outdoor silicone or other caulk that can be pressed in and smoothed with a wet finger for a clean look. This way you get two separate barriers against water ingress. I installed mine in 2013 and have never had a leak.

DSC00574-sm.jpg

DSC00570-sm.jpg

Sunroof final-sm.jpg

IMG_1779-sm.jpg

I'd view this as a leisurely all weekend job, allowing for downtime and the inevitable trip(s) to pick up missing tools or supplies. If your car is a daily driver you can separate out the headliner refinishing and sunroof hardware parts of the job, since you can drive around without the headliner until that's ready to be reinstalled.

Neil

[BryDog]

very helpful, thanks a bunch

sounds like a fun project, actually

it's on the list !

Dog

[TXBDan]

I used Permatex flowable silicone windshield sealant. It's very fluid so it flows into all the cracks deep down and self levels well. I did 3-5 layers of it, building up and filling in the channel more and more until it leveled at the top. If you use it be sure to tape the crack/seam inside the car so it doesn't flow through and drip through. My cars seen plenty of rain over the past 2-3 years and its been water tight.

[darbyfam]

I also used the windshield sealant with great success.

[jakermac]

I used the highest grade clear GE outdoor silicone that I could find, squeezed a thick bead all around the bottom 90 degree on the plug. I then pushed it up into the roof opening which pushed some of it up into the tight gap between the plug and the roof. I smoothed that down with my finger, leaving nothing up past the roof surface. There were a couple low spots that I added silicone to from the top again smoothing it down to leave nothing extra other than what fit in the gap.

6 years, no leaks. I ran around without a headliner for the 1st year to confirm that nothing was leaking.

[Fair]

I have used the S2R fiberglass and AJ Hartman carbon sunroof delete panels and both work very well.



In my personal E46 330 race car I use the AJ Hartman carbon unit. Below is an excerpt from my "E46 330 / Daily Driven Track Car" build thread about the installation and weights.

=======

One of the biggest and most important areas where we removed weight was the retractable power sunroof delete.



The BMW E46 sunroof cassette weighs a staggering 72.0 pounds, which was more than I remembered from doing a roof swap on an E46 before.



We asked AJ Hartman to make us a carbon fiber sunroof delete panel, which he did for us over the summer (and we bought a couple of them). The fit and finish was exceptional and the finished, 100% dry carbon panel weighed in at 1.5 pounds.



Brad and Donnie installed this unit and it fits perfectly. A thin layer of black RTV went on the perimeter of the panel to seal it to the roof and there were bolt holes to attach it to the factory sunroof mounting holes as well.



We could have purchased a non-sunroof headliner to replace the old unit, but they are a little spendy. If we can live without back seats, the headliner can be left out as well. Very slick, easy, and water-tight solution to lose 70.5 pounds out of the roof AND gain several inches of headroom.

==========

The AJ Hartman unit has been in my E46 coupe for over a year and we did another in this E46 328i sedan more recently.



Cheers,

[Novablue454]

another one for S2R, mine even broke in shipping and he sent out another one for me asap.

[lmtfi]

Another S2R user...fitment is superb. Mounting holes lined up with factory holes. Piece-O-Cake.

Don

Your experience isn't universal.

I put an S2R CF insert in a few months ago. The insert was trimmed too short - leaving a little less than half of the mount holes drilled so close to the edge that there is little or no mount strength. That is to say - the pre-drilled holes are right on the EDGE of the insert.




I had to invent some creative mount hardware including a stack of rubber-backed steel washers, aluminum mount bars etc.

It was a very real problem. I'm surprised that they shipped it like that.





Homemade aluminum pressure bar to try to deal with holes drilled at the edge:

[jakermac]

Your experience isn't universal.

I put an S2R CF insert in a few months ago. The insert was trimmed too short - leaving a little less than half of the mount holes drilled so close to the edge that there is little or no mount strength. That is to say - the pre-drilled holes are right on the EDGE of the insert.

Though I agree that it should not have shipped in that condition, did you give S2R the chance to make it right, or were you in a hurry to get it installed (I've been there with stuff before and I understand if that was the case)? I'm sure that he would have corrected the situation had you given him the opportunity.

[lmtfi]

Though I agree that it should not have shipped in that condition, did you give S2R the chance to make it right, or were you in a hurry to get it installed (I've been there with stuff before and I understand if that was the case)? I'm sure that he would have corrected the situation had you given him the opportunity.

S2R shipped it as their product. Given the hand work needed to produce it - it can't be said they S2R didn't realize that they were drilling the mount holes literally at the edge of the panel - or that the panel wasn't under-sized to start with - apparently requiring them to try to drill it right at the edge. They had plenty of chances to see that the mount holes were a problem - and chose to ship it. So it can't be said that it would be a surprise. I assumed they are all/mostly like that.

And no - I wasn't in a hurry. I had it 6 weeks before I needed it.

[dcvee]

He probably saw how handy you are with blue tape and thought you'd just install it that way... I'd have sent that back. Noted, is that it seems the e36 guys are very happy and one e46 guy isn't? Could be a mold/trim issue since it looks like he trimmed it incorrectly?

Don

[MPWRCPE]

Another S2R fan here. Panel fit and finish was superb on the E36 carbon fiber version.

[Fissionx]

Agreed. See my fitment issues. Rear was also too low it didn't sit flush with the rest of the roof.
Can't upload pics via iPhone but it was less than ideal. Still best cheapest option out there but FAR from OEM look.

I'd do it again for sure worth the $200 but still a better solution needs to be made for the yr e46

- - - Updated - - -

Also you have to drill new holes for the rear

[klodkrawler05]

I did my sunroof delete the hard way:

16865077_10209190166652087_7979548429418887179_n.jpg

15349567_10208468420848893_3036019785028162057_n.jpg

it turned out pretty nice for doing it in our garage, but there was the added expense of paying to have glass removed/installed and a 6 pack of beer to have a buddy weld in the non sunroof cross member.

[Fair]

I did my sunroof delete the hard way:

16865077_10209190166652087_7979548429418887179_n.jpg

15349567_10208468420848893_3036019785028162057_n.jpg

it turned out pretty nice for doing it in our garage, but there was the added expense of paying to have glass removed/installed and a 6 pack of beer to have a buddy weld in the non sunroof cross member.

Yes this is "the right way" do delete a sunroof, but doesn't fit every budget.



I show the step-by-step install of the AJ HArtman Aero carbon E46 roof in the 3rd post of this build thread, which is also posted right here on BF.



There is a decent weight savings... but it is a LOT more work than the delete panels.



The OEM roof weighed 96.1 pounds (24.1 for panel + 72.0 for sunroof cassette). The new AJ Hartman carbon fiber roof came in at 6.9 pounds, for a total savings of 89.2 pounds - way up high in the roof! Not only did we lose the equivalent mass of a "young adult" the interior gained about 2.5" of headroom. We also had ample access for building the roll cage.

[BryDog]

Update:

I got the delete panel and it looks great. Actually started the project tonight and so far, I have the headliner out. btw - was no trouble thanks to this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sS2_S91Vzo

Question: Where can I source the windshield sealant locally? I'd like to get it tomorrow and not wait for shipping. It takes time to cure from what I've read and I have a 2-day event this weekend, and hurricane remnants are heading north.

I gather I'm looking for some or all of these:

- Polyurethane windshield adhesive =
- Permatex Windshield Repair = Ace ?
- GE Silicone II 10.1 oz. Clear Window and Door Caulk = Home Depot

Thanks
BryDog