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Thread: 99M3 in STR - offset vs standard LCAB?

  1. #1
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    '97 Cosmos M3/4

    98M3 in STR - offset vs standard LCAB?

    I've been autoxing with offsets in 96+ M3's for 8yrs and doing very well locally, but maybe I should be running standard offset?
    I found some old threads that really didn't provide much detail, so I'm still questioning if running offset LCABs in a 96+ M3 provides any appreciable front suspension gains for autox? (Yes, the E36M has no good home in SCCA, but that's another thread)
    For sure they make front tire rubbing more of a hassle ... I have offsets in my '97 and '99 E36M's.
    For sure they are adding caster ... but does the car need more for autocross manuevers? (I have vorschlag plates set to max caster as well)
    Yes, I could buy some non-offsets and try them, but not sure I'd notice anything unless I could run the 2 LCABs back-to-back.
    Has anyone done any measurements to see how the offset LCAB impacts bump steer, camber gain, etc?
    Last edited by fizzx; 07-31-2017 at 01:35 AM.
    '98 M3/4 Cosmos Black - currently undergoing STR build see http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...36M3-STR-build
    '99 M3 Cosmos Black w/ LOTS of rust - [SBRSCCA STU Champ 2016] - UUC RSC36 exhaust, H&R Sways, Treehouse Racing FCAB, poly RTAB and diff bushings, 17x9 SSR TypeF w/ RE71R
    '97 M3/4 Cosmos Black - [Sitting idle since fall 2013 w/ blown HG] UUC RSC36 exhaust, ASA R1 17x9 w/ 255/40/17 BFG Rivals, Kosei 17x8.5 w/ Hoosier A6's, H&R Sways, GC Adj End Links, GC RSM, Treehouse Racing FCAB, XBrace, AST 4100, Hyperco 600F/750R, Vorshlag Camber Plates, fan delete, turner underdrive pulleys, sharked, aFe CAI
    '06 X5 4.8is LeMans Blue
    '02 X5 3.0i Silver

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    99 M3

    99M3 in STR - offset vs standard LCAB?

    Don't have any real numbers for you. But I do know that ALL of the front end parts in the 1996+M3s contain geometry changes to get to more camber at full lock. From what I understand that using the offset LFCA Bushings does little for you especially if you are running camber plates.


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    Last edited by bluptgm3; 07-31-2017 at 04:45 PM.

  3. #3
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    '97 Cosmos M3/4
    Talked to Jason at Vorshlag and he said they've tried every combo of bushings and arms and the stock geometry was still best in the end. Sooo, I'm moving back to centered vs offset LCABs :-)
    '98 M3/4 Cosmos Black - currently undergoing STR build see http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...36M3-STR-build
    '99 M3 Cosmos Black w/ LOTS of rust - [SBRSCCA STU Champ 2016] - UUC RSC36 exhaust, H&R Sways, Treehouse Racing FCAB, poly RTAB and diff bushings, 17x9 SSR TypeF w/ RE71R
    '97 M3/4 Cosmos Black - [Sitting idle since fall 2013 w/ blown HG] UUC RSC36 exhaust, ASA R1 17x9 w/ 255/40/17 BFG Rivals, Kosei 17x8.5 w/ Hoosier A6's, H&R Sways, GC Adj End Links, GC RSM, Treehouse Racing FCAB, XBrace, AST 4100, Hyperco 600F/750R, Vorshlag Camber Plates, fan delete, turner underdrive pulleys, sharked, aFe CAI
    '06 X5 4.8is LeMans Blue
    '02 X5 3.0i Silver

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by fizzx View Post
    Talked to Jason at Vorshlag and he said they've tried every combo of bushings and arms and the stock geometry was still best in the end. Sooo, I'm moving back to centered vs offset LCABs :-)
    I have the offset bearings on my 328. I also had the offset roll center balljoints on my stock arms. With that setup I could get -3.5 camber but only about 6* caster.

    I just switched to m3 control arms. They have different rollcenter balljoints that are centered. I left the offset bearings on there and... lost a remarkable amount of camber like over a degree. (Yes I have camber plates.)

    If you think about it, the offset bearings not only push the balljoint forward but also slightly inward.

    Going for an alignment tomorrow. I don't think the combination is going to be able to get the camber I need. I may have to rotate the offset bearings to the top or something. I'm sitting here thinking about next day airing the centered bearings.
    Last edited by CoMZ302; 08-01-2017 at 08:10 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    99 M3

    99M3 in STR - offset vs standard LCAB?

    1995M3 or 1996+M3 control arms? 1995M3 Forward Lower Control Arm have the same geometry as 318/323/325/328, but eliminate the isolated outer ball joint. The 1995M3 uses an offset FLCABushing to add caster. These could be added to a 318/323/325/328 with same result (added caster).
    Same with Meyle and Meyle HD FLCAs.

    The spindle, forward lower control arm (FLCA), control arm bushing (FLCAB), and bearing plate/guide support have geometry changes that affect caster, camber, adding camber as steering approaches full lock.


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    Last edited by bluptgm3; 08-04-2017 at 12:21 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    99 M3

    99M3 in STR - offset vs standard LCAB?

    95 Bearing Plates - centered
    96+ Bearing Plates - offset aft and outbd
    96+ has slightly stiffer springs - different spring 'hat' required to match MY 96+ springs
    96+ has stiffer front sway bar - requires different mounting bushings.

    MY 95 and MY 96+ control arms carry different part numbers
    MY 95 and MY 96+ use different LFCABushings - offset vs. centered
    MY 95 and MY 96+ spindles carry different part numbers
    MY 95 and MY 96+ strut carry different part number

    I believe the outer ball joint on the 1996+M3 control arm and the spindle mounting tab moved forward 10mm.
    These geometry changes in 1996+M3 Forward Lower Control Arms and Spindle offers more camber at and approaching full steering lock. Additionally, the static position of the Strut is more upright.

    For Forward Lower Control Arms, I think I have heard over the years, that the 1995M3 and 318/323/325/328 FLCA geometry is the same as the solid ball joint E30 FLCA but that the inner ball joint is larger on the E36 FLCA to handle the increased chassis wright. The E36 318/323/325/328 FLCA has a rubber isolated outer ball joint.
    Meyle HD FLCAs eliminate the isolated outer ball joint replacing it with a solid ball joint in a E36 non-M CA configuration.

    Forward Lower Control Arm
    95M3
    WISHBONE, LEFT31122227249
    RIGHT WISHBONE31122227250

    96+M3
    WISHBONE, LEFT31122228461
    RIGHT WISHBONE31122228462

    Splindles
    95M3
    KING PIN LEFT 31212227357
    KING PIN RIGHT 31212227358

    96+M3
    KING PIN LEFT 31212227907
    KING PIN RIGHT 31212227908


    Strut
    95M3
    LEFT FRONT SPRING STRUT 31312226987
    FRONT RIGHT SPRING STRUT 31312226988

    96+M3
    LEFT FRONT SPRING STRUT 31312228007
    FRONT RIGHT SPRING STRUT 31312228008

    96+ m3 hat
    08 UPPER SPRING PLATE p/n 31332227903
    09 SPRING PAD UPPER 3MM p/n 31332227902
    And the Canadian cars use
    09 SPRING PAD UPPER 9MM p/n 31332227901

    95 m3 hat
    08 UPPER SPRING PLATE p/n 31332227348
    09 SPRING PAD UPPER 3MM p/n 31331128523


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    Last edited by bluptgm3; 08-09-2017 at 10:06 AM.

  7. #7
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    '97 Cosmos M3/4
    Installed the standard offset bushings (condor) tonight and was bummed to find I lost about .5deg camber on each side.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    99 M3

    99M3 in STR - offset vs standard LCAB?

    Quote Originally Posted by fizzx View Post
    Installed the standard offset bushings (condor) tonight and was bummed to find I lost about .5deg camber on each side.
    The offset bushing has the net affect of pushing the wheel forward and inboard. The wishbone (FLCA) pivots at the inner ball joint location pulling the base of the spindle forward and inboard.


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    Last edited by bluptgm3; 08-04-2017 at 10:01 AM.

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