In the middle of the 750 head gasket / bolt job. Need help!

[xboss]

Hey guys,

I'm about ready to pull the heads off the block and I have a couple timing questions. I have gone over the TIS and there is no mention of the cam gear bolt channels as pictured. I assume these channels are just to make sure the chain is tight between the cam gears and I can adjust as needed?

Also, I just do not see how the timing lock tool is needed. All I have to do is make some marks on the chain and sprocket and then match it back up right? The bottom side of the chain over the crank will obviously never go loose and skip teeth or anything while the heads are out. Am I missing something? TDC is also pictured and pretty easy to line up. I want to pull these heads but just making sure.

I have pictured the broken bolts as well. So far there are three bolt with broken heads on the passenger bank. I thought these were all going to be broken off flush at the block. Who knows, maybe more to come.


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[atakordie]

Those slots are for getting the cams adjusted just right for the chain length (could be slightly stretched from age). You should get the flywheel locking pin and cam blocks for best results. This forum post helped me when timing the V12, and it worked fine, 20K+ miles since then.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...2-Valve-Timing

[xboss]

Those slots are for getting the cams adjusted just right for the chain length (could be slightly stretched from age). You should get the flywheel locking pin and cam blocks for best results. This forum post helped me when timing the V12, and it worked fine, 20K+ miles since then.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...2-Valve-Timing

Awesome link. TY

I'll grab some cam blocks and redo the timing on this old boy. 200,000 miles so it might be a good idea.

[xboss]

I was working on the manifold bolts underneath today. Man, some of those are hard to get to.

It got me thinking about running a compression test on the side with no broken bolts and possibly passing on doing that bank if it checks out OK.

So I was wondering, if the bank checks out with compression would it be a very stupid idea to swap out the old bolts? Part of me thinks that if they went on one at a time it should not disturb the gasket and be fine but maybe not?

I have the bolts and the covers are off so it at least should be considered. The three broken head bolts on the broken bank are all popped off at the bolt heads.

[xboss]

So I got all the hardware off the broken bank but man, the head is not budging. I'm going over all the steps to make sure I did not miss anything but how hard is it supposed to be to pop the seal on these heads?

[atakordie]

Head could be stuck to rusty dowel pins, but try hitting it with a rubber mallet if you haven't already. If you have gotten all the head bolts and the water manifold in the rear, it should come off.

Head gaskets are Victor Reinz brand, and VR also has the head bolts available for cheaper than BMW. I wouldn't try reusing the bolts because they are torque-to-yield stretch bolts. If you reuse them, they could snap during torquing or after a heat cycle. If the good bank has good compression and no broken bolts, you could leave it. I can't say for sure if replacing one bolt at a time (to keep from pulling the head) would be fine or not. I've never tried that.

[xboss]

Hey tx atakordie, I'm an idiot, I forgot to undo the coolant manifold. In the TIS there are three words and a link regarding that step and I missed it! I should have thought about it even without the TIS though. Tomorrow that head is coming off!

I was reading up on replacing the other banks bolts one at a time and it seems like people have done it with no problem on even race engines so just maybe that bank will not have to come off. The main reason why I would like to skip it is because the drivers side exhaust manifold is being a major jerk with rusty broken bolts and unreachable spots. Also, the whole head failure seems to be those three broken bolts on the passenger bank. Compression test coming soon...

[MrCi]

Wouldn't it have been easier to just pop a new engine in?

[xboss]

Wouldn't it have been easier to just pop a new engine in?

Heh, probably would be!

[XAlt]

Wouldn't it have been easier to just pop a new engine in?

Personally I'd try replacing the timeserts and working my way from there.

[xboss]

I'm so deep into the engine that it would be silly to pass on the other bank so I'm going to try to do both. All the parts that came off are nice and clean. Going to clean up the injectors tonight.

I ordered the cam alignment tools and will follow atakordies steps for adjusting the cams to compensate for the 200,000 mile chain.

[MKIVJZA80]

good luck! she'll be perfect when you're done.

[xboss]

good luck! she'll be perfect when you're done.

TY! Besides being a TON of labor since not only does everything come off but then it all has to be cleaned / replaced or refurbished this job is not that hard. The drivers side manifold bolts are terrible though. I got all the broken bolts out and ordered all new seals for the coolant pipes and some replacement exhaust hardware so things are going along pretty good and the prices are about half off retail on these parts since nobody is ordering them. Rear coolant manifold sucks but is doable. The only thing that wrecks this job is a cracked head which I should know about real soon since the head comes off tonight!

[ConvGeorge]

TY! Besides being a TON of labor since not only does everything come off but then it all has to be cleaned / replaced or refurbished this job is not that hard. The drivers side manifold bolts are terrible though. I got all the broken bolts out and ordered all new seals for the coolant pipes and some replacement exhaust hardware so things are going along pretty good and the prices are about half off retail on these parts since nobody is ordering them. Rear coolant manifold sucks but is doable. The only thing that wrecks this job is a cracked head which I should know about real soon since the head comes off tonight!

Don't know if this is strictly applicable since I was doing a V8, but when I pulled my engine it was easier to pull it with the drivers side manifold still attached to the engine, and remove it once it was past the steering stuff. So it might be easier to remove if you unbolt it from the collector, then pull the head with the manifold still attached.

[XAlt]

V12 Manifolds are PITA in every scenario.

You can't get the VCs off with them on.

[psjr]

V12 Manifolds are PITA in every scenario.

You can't get the VCs off with them on.

Really? That makes my needed VCG job sound a lot less fun....

[XAlt]

Really? That makes my needed VCG job sound a lot less fun....

I don't know how'd you'd clear the bolts let alone slide it out. Gives you a good excuse to slap some Reinzosil or Honda Bond on the intake gaskets.

This is how I did it on the 32: http://twrite.org/shogunnew/files/fo..._Refurbish.pdf

http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/d...akeremoval.pdf

[xboss]

I was able to get both valve covers off no problem but there are two bolts on the driver side on the exhaust manifold that are impossible to get to. Like ConvGeorge said, I think I have to pop the head with it connected then shift it a little bit to hit those bolts.

I have to check your pdf xalt, any help is appreciated!

I got the passenger bank off the car last night! All broken bolts are out. Block and head look good. I bet I do not need to touch the drivers bank but I should right? It would be dumb to just swap the bolts right?

[xboss]

I bought some hylomar blue for the intake gaskets. The old gaskets look great. The only stuck hardware on the whole job was the passenger manifold. One of the 12 nuts broke a stud and that is it.

[MKIVJZA80]

i had to take the intakes off 3 times and reseal them. first to do valve covers up rebuild, all ignition parts, intake gaskets, vacuum lines, CCV OSV etc. then my knock sensors started to act up. took it apart and put it back together. turns out i got wrong ones and a few weeks ago, did the job within 6 hours. no codes at all for 1000 miles, much of them spirited.

everything will work in the end for you brother, wish you the best. feels great to have the car running 100 percent. just small misc stuff left

[xboss]

TY! The four knock sensors do worry me. The casing they come in has broken up on them all. I really cannot afford $400 for new ones So I might bury them under some high temp gasket sealer to protect the wires.

[xboss]

Oh, you guys were talking about intake manifolds? Those were the easiest part of the job. You just need a 1/4 drive ratchet and about 14 inches of extension and it's off it ten minutes. Releasing the exhaust manifolds on the driver side are a nightmare though. I do not even see how the bolt is supposed to be accessed. You cannot even see two of the six bolts from underneath and everything is in the way.

The passenger side manifolds are cake but I broke a stud and then spent two days trying to get the stud out, bought a replacement one and everything but the stud was welded in place in the threads.

I know this because I drilled it all the way out and then tried to peel away the tube that was left and all the threads are basically melded as one to the manifold flange.

[MKIVJZA80]

get Duralast ones from autozone for 76 each lifetime warranty or you can find ones for 120-ish each on ebay. worked for me!

- - - Updated - - -

knock sensors, that is!

here's mine after finishing. tried to compliment the Orient Blue paint.

[psjr]

I don't know how'd you'd clear the bolts let alone slide it out. Gives you a good excuse to slap some Reinzosil or Honda Bond on the intake gaskets.

This is how I did it on the 32: http://twrite.org/shogunnew/files/fo..._Refurbish.pdf

http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/d...akeremoval.pdf

Yeah, I thought you were talking about exhaust manifolds too.
To me, just "manifolds" means exhaust, and I would call the intake manifolds just "intakes".

[XAlt]

It was confusing, I thought he was referencing pulling the covers with the intake still attached on the V8.

Manifold manifold manifold manifold