Bored Bleedsblue: "budget" minded Brembo BBK

[sugaki]

I though Stoptech and other brand rotors would all bolt up to the Brembo hat? Either way, it's definitely better to pay extra for rotors versus them being NLA and an impossibility to source!

I will certainly investigate the Wilwood rotor option more, I appreciate the idea. As well as the Compbrake! When it's all said and done, I may still prefer the OEM options of E46 floaters for ~$420-500/pair, but I want to investigate everything thoroughly.

Yeah and I even heard the pads for those 95 M5 brakes are hard to come by, wanted to avoid wear parts that become NLA. They do look the coolest though of all the options...

Totally didn't occur to me that rotors are interchangeable. Yeah I think Racingbrake rotors fit the Brembo GT rotors, so major savings there.

I do like the idea of E46 Euro floaters, probably comes down to how you'd need to modify them to fit our cars.

[BleedsBlue]

I was out most of August, but in addition to my new (and first purchase) home projects (built in '48), I'm back tinkering full time.

I just ordered a cheap, blank E46 325mm rotor for testing, as well as Rally Road's front banjo brake lines. X2, since I will try and use a set on the Brembo F50 + late M5 floaters I took over from Greg.

It's funny but my M5 doesn't have hub "lugs" since the coil overs are off a non-M, but my 540T will have lugs, since I'm swapping ex-M5 strut assemblies onto that car. For now, I'm putting the beefier F50 + M5 floaters on the 540T, and will test 996 Brembo shenanigans on my brake lug-less M5.

[atl530i]

Just now seeing this. Definitely interested in some floating rotors and a lighter setup.

[BleedsBlue]

Just now seeing this. Definitely interested in some floating rotors and a lighter setup.

I'm certainly skirting on marginal returns compared to the widely available E31 kit (don't you have that, actually?), but still pressing on. These 996 Brembos are ridiculously available and cheaper than the E31, plus the big E46 ZCP/CSL floater is a unique proposition for sure.

My RallyRoad lines and E46 rotor shipped out today, I'll see what I can do! Ideally I will contract with Greg to tweak his 7075 bracket for the F50. It's actually somewhat close.

Side note: impossible to find being sold alone, except for maybe used, but the Brembo F50s are about half the weight of the 996/E31 Brembos, with larger pistons. These things are impressive. It's a real shame Ford Racing stopped carrying them and now you just have to wait for a used set (forever).

[atl530i]

I'm certainly skirting on marginal returns compared to the widely available E31 kit (don't you have that, actually?), but still pressing on. These 996 Brembos are ridiculously available and cheaper than the E31, plus the big E46 ZCP/CSL floater is a unique proposition for sure.

My RallyRoad lines and E46 rotor shipped out today, I'll see what I can do! Ideally I will contract with Greg to tweak his 7075 bracket for the F50. It's actually somewhat close.

Side note: impossible to find being sold alone, except for maybe used, but the Brembo F50s are about half the weight of the 996/E31 Brembos, with larger pistons. These things are impressive. It's a real shame Ford Racing stopped carrying them and now you just have to wait for a used set (forever).

I have E31 Brembo's currently but I'm always open to new options since I am working on another E34.

[chunkster]

https://www.millerperformancecars.co...ont-110-detail
https://www.millerperformancecars.co...it-rear-detail

Same brake pedal feel compared to stock M5 brakes but (to quote 5mall5nail), "the difference is on stops harder/longer/more-better than the other."
M-Parallels fit (E38)
M-Systems will fit but need at least a 5mm spacer in front.

Hope this helps.

[BleedsBlue]

It's definitely a nice kit, just a bit more $$ than I was looking to spend, thus this thread and experiment. The Miller/Wilwood rear is interesting, it's really not too expensive and cool that they use the late M5 rotor. Thanks for posting.

[E38740iMD]

time to bump this up!

if i wanted to use the e46 m3 stock caliper. would would i have to use the e34 m5 rotors still? assuming the e46 m3 calipers are better than the e34/e36 calipers

- - - Updated - - -

also i guess the E46 m3 calipers would have to be flipped like the e36 m3 brakes

[BleedsBlue]

^Well I don't have any info on the E46 caliper specifically, but assuming the mounting and offset of that caliper is similar to the E36, you would want an E34-offset rotor for sure. I just can't give you any clarification or numbers in terms of E46 M calipers vs E36 M/E34 M calipers, unfortunately.

[sogoodtaya]

I have been sweating my %ss off wondering how I was going to afford to put big brake calipers on my e36 M3 track car.

Dude...you have just saved me thousands with this post. Thank you!

[BleedsBlue]

^ Ha well, happy to help--makes at least some of my armchair quarterbacking and online obsessing pay off. For the E36, Rally Road has you covered.

Then for the E34, this "kit" just needs a bracket now, courtesy of 93FIM5, but it's not very high on the totem pole...

[E38740iMD]

^Well I don't have any info on the E46 caliper specifically, but assuming the mounting and offset of that caliper is similar to the E36, you would want an E34-offset rotor for sure. I just can't give you any clarification or numbers in terms of E46 M calipers vs E36 M/E34 M calipers, unfortunately.

I see, I brought this up because the e36 guys use e46 330i brakes and calipers, so then the e36 guys can use e46 m brake calipers, which then means we can use the e46 m calipers because what bolts on the e36 can bolt on the e34 if reversed. I may have to be the guinney pig because the e46 m brakes are for some reason cheaper than the e36 ones.

Maybe I will dig up info and paste it here tomarrow at work

[BleedsBlue]

IMHO if you're not changing cylinders and want to match similar bias and pedal feel, the 6-piston SL6R from Wilwood are the way to go. My stock brake E34 525i and my 6-piston SL6R Wilwood E34 525i feel absolutely identical in pedal feel.... the difference is on stops harder/longer/more-better than the other.

Oldish bump here, but do you have a sense of exactly how Wilwood is matching the pedal feel of a stock 525i? Perhaps similar overall piston area (and thus fluid) to a stock sliding caliper? With the 996 calipers on E36s, E31 Brembos on E34s, and other Brembo kits on both chassis, the brake pedal almost universally engages lower. On mine running Greg's F50 calipers, the pedal feel is excellent but it engages lower for sure. There is actually less piston area between the F50s compared to stock M5 3.6 calipers.

[TGreene]

Really interested to see what Greg comes up with for the custom hats. Over on M5board, he replied to a thread with pictures of his 355x32 AP racing rotors on his custom hats with AP Racing 6-Pistons and it all weighs in at 22lbs less than the N'Ring setup.

On AP racing's website, the 355x32 rotor is 8.4kg and the 315x32 is 6kg, so another 2.4kg per corner saved if you went with the stock E34 M5 rotor size. Then downgrade the caliper to save another pound or so per corner.

With lighter 17" wheels around 17lbs as opposed to the 22lb Throwing Stars, coilovers that I found out last night are 5lbs less per corner, a smaller aluminum caliper on a floating rotor offering up another 10lbs or so, it could be very possible to lose 20lbs on each front corner. That is pretty wild to think about. 40lbs of gross weight - all of it is unsprung and a lot of it is rotating.

[5mall5nail5]

Oldish bump here, but do you have a sense of exactly how Wilwood is matching the pedal feel of a stock 525i? Perhaps similar overall piston area (and thus fluid) to a stock sliding caliper? With the 996 calipers on E36s, E31 Brembos on E34s, and other Brembo kits on both chassis, the brake pedal almost universally engages lower. On mine running Greg's F50 calipers, the pedal feel is excellent but it engages lower for sure. There is actually less piston area between the F50s compared to stock M5 3.6 calipers.

The feel is matched because of total piston displacement. When I spec'd my Wilwoods I was sure to mind the piston sizes. Many of the OE calipers have single or dual pistons that can be HUGE in total area compared to a 6 piston with smaller pistons. I drive a '95 525i daily and my '92 525i with 6 piston wilwoods and I am extremely confident no one would know one from the other regarding pedal feel.

[BleedsBlue]

Really interested to see what Greg comes up with for the custom hats. Over on M5board, he replied to a thread with pictures of his 355x32 AP racing rotors on his custom hats with AP Racing 6-Pistons and it all weighs in at 22lbs less than the N'Ring setup.

The setup will be glorious, and reproduced for sale, but it will be serious money--the intention there is not to undercut, say, the Brembo GT kit in price, but to at least exceed such kits in performance.

The feel is matched because of total piston displacement. When I spec'd my Wilwoods I was sure to mind the piston sizes. Many of the OE calipers have single or dual pistons that can be HUGE in total area compared to a 6 piston with smaller pistons. I drive a '95 525i daily and my '92 525i with 6 piston wilwoods and I am extremely confident no one would know one from the other regarding pedal feel.

Cool, thank you for corroborating Greg and I's suspicions

[E38740iMD]

Another Worthy Bump. Not sure if already discussed but...

F30 335i brembos has been confirmed to bolt on the E34 chassis.

All is needed is to make it work is a precision spacer to center the rotor in the caliper, that's about it.

Another thing to keep in mind is that F30 Brembos is not cheap!

The rear brembos are require more mods that concern the e34 ebrake gear and the e34 dust sheild.

[BleedsBlue]

Another Worthy Bump. Not sure if already discussed but...

F30 335i brembos has been confirmed to bolt on the E34 chassis.

All is needed is to make it work is a precision spacer to center the rotor in the caliper, that's about it.

Another thing to keep in mind is that F30 Brembos is not cheap!

The rear brembos are require more mods that concern the e34 ebrake gear and the e34 dust sheild.

I saw that as well! Thanks for the bump. Those look like serious brakes, but what type of pricing are you seeing? Only interested in the front price at this point.

[E38740iMD]

I saw a set for 1300. These cars are new so really tought to get a set second hand.

[demetk]

On MyE28, there is a set of front and rear Porsche Boxster calipers that are being test fit on an e28. A complete set of used calipers are going for around $500.

[E38740iMD]

On MyE28, there is a set of front and rear Porsche Boxster calipers that are being test fit on an e28. A complete set of used calipers are going for around $500.

What year boxster. This is good news

[BleedsBlue]

^ As noted in my first post, the 996 and Boxster S share these calipers (996 Turbo, and regular Boxsters each have different calipers). They are regularly available for $500-600 for front AND rears--again, thus my interest in developing this kit.

I've seen the E28 thread, cheers. IIRC they were adapting the Porsche Brembos to E28/34 rotors, no?

[demetk]

Sorry Brent, I didn't read your first post before I posted but now I did. So are you also developing a carrier so we can use the same rotors?

[BleedsBlue]

Sorry Brent, I didn't read your first post before I posted but now I did. So are you also developing a carrier so we can use the same rotors?

No worries Demet. The bracket will adapt the 996.351.425/6 Porsche Brembos for use on E34 hubs with the E46 M3 CSL/ZCP 345mm full-floating rotors (2282445446). These rotors are superior to any E34-fitment alternative rotor:

• Lighter, cheaper and more importantly, North America-available compared to late '94+ E34 M5 345mm floaters
• Lighter, bigger, and full floating compared to one piece E31 324mm rotors
• Lighter, still bigger, and full floating compared to E32 750 (338?) rotors

I'm updating the first post with the latest on this kit, as we've made some decisions and will be moving forward with production.

[E38740iMD]

No worries Demet. The bracket will adapt the 996.351.425/6 Porsche Brembos for use on E34 hubs with the E46 M3 CSL/ZCP 345mm full-floating rotors (2282445446). These rotors are superior to any E34-fitment alternative rotor:

• Lighter, cheaper and more importantly, North America-available compared to late '94+ E34 M5 345mm floaters
• Lighter, bigger, and full floating compared to one piece E31 324mm rotors
• Lighter, still bigger, and full floating compared to E32 750 (338?) rotors

I'm updating the first post with the latest on this kit, as we've made some decisions and will be moving forward with production.

Will it fit behing a 17" wheel or must be 18s and above? It would be good to have an oem bbk to fit behind 17s for the e34 imo