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Thread: 1997 E36 M3 Sedan LS1/T56 Swap

  1. #101
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    206
    My Cars
    1997 M3 Sedan
    Quote Originally Posted by RulyLSX View Post
    6 months, holy shit. exhaust work looks nice and tucked though
    Last time they had the car the fabricator swore he could tuck 3” pipes so I took him up on it this time. The header primaries are still the lowest part of the exhaust.


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  2. #102
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Houston, TX
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    206
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    1997 M3 Sedan
    Quote Originally Posted by mrallande5020 View Post
    Damn, just read this whole thread and you'r bringing that thing close to oem specs man. From cabin noise to the fit and finish of you'r engine bay and interior. Incredible! And the rims fit the build perfectly.
    Thanks for the compliments!


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  3. #103
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    206
    My Cars
    1997 M3 Sedan
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Mc View Post
    Agreed - must have much time traveling to plan your next moves!

    Really impressed with your new wheels...how do the weight against the DS2's?

    Car looks brand new...
    I didn’t even think to weigh them. Lol. They felt pretty light going on, at least as light as the DS2’s. I’ve always liked that style wheel so much that I didn’t really care if they were a little heavier. Too bad BBS stopped offering them in sizes that fit the E36.


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  4. #104
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Houston, TX
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    206
    My Cars
    1997 M3 Sedan
    Small update: Turns out that the new PCM didn’t fix the pedal issue. I decided to do some testing on the GM Camaro pedal to see exactly what it was doing compared to the BMW pedal. It turns out that the two low reference terminals needed to be swapped. In the GM pinout, it doesn’t differentiate which low reference goes to what APP circuit. Maybe it doesn’t matter, right? Well, it does. It’s obvious when metering the GM pedal that it makes a difference. One way is increasing resistance and the other is decreasing. So, I swapped pins and it’s been fine ever since. Could be because I’m using an LS3 from a Camaro and ssburns is from a Corvette. No idea.

    Copied from ssburns:

    GM Pedal
    A - Low Reference
    B - APP Sensor 2 Signal
    C - 5-Volt Reference 1
    D - Low Reference
    E - APP Sensor 1 Signal
    F - 5-Volt Reference 2

    E46 Pedal Pinout
    1 - Gnd 1 - Brn/Grn
    2 - Gnd 2 - Brn
    3 - VCC 2 - Yel/Grn
    4 - Sig 1 - Wht
    5 - VCC 1 - Yel
    6 - Sig 2 - Wht/Grn

    As per ssburns:
    A - 1
    B - 6
    C - 5
    D - 2
    E - 4
    F - 3

    How I have it:
    A-2
    B-6
    C-5
    D-1
    E-4
    F-3




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  5. #105
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Columbus, OH
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    130
    My Cars
    1998 328i Sedan
    Car looks great! So does that exhaust! Any clips of how it sounds?

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    192
    My Cars
    1997 M3/4/5
    Are you running a brake booster?
    1997 E36 M3/4/5
    ASM - Slicktop
    My LS3 Build: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...9#post30117299

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Houston, TX
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    206
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    1997 M3 Sedan
    Quote Originally Posted by BillyDee36 View Post
    Car looks great! So does that exhaust! Any clips of how it sounds?
    Thanks! No sound clips yet. Soon though.


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  8. #108
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Houston, TX
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    1997 M3 Sedan
    Quote Originally Posted by wbrentr View Post
    Are you running a brake booster?
    Yes, stock booster. Never touched it.


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  9. #109
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Houston, TX
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    My Cars
    1997 M3 Sedan
    So, I never got the thing to stop going into limp home mode using the BMW DBW pedal with the LS3 PCM. Others have done it and apparently it has worked out for them, but it hasn't for me.

    I got tired of chasing the problem and the final straw was that a friend was visiting this week from out of town who is strongly considering an LS swap in his e28 and I needed to have the car driveable.

    So, I ripped out the LS3 harness and PCM and installed the LS1 harness and PCM that I had in there previously. I'm also using the LS1 throttle body and MAF, which are smaller than the LS3, but I'll worry about that later. In the tune, I just changed the cylinder volume and entered injector values for 42lb/hr injectors and it was able to start and run like that. It needed some time to learn how to idle but now it idles well and is driveable around town. I will have my tuner do a street tune as soon as both of us get some free time. It also needed injector EV1 to EV6 connector adapters, a MAP sensor extension, the Lingenfelter 58x to 24x conversion box, a 3-bolt to 4-bolt throttle body adapter, and a throttle cable bracket to make the LS1 control system work on the LS3. The throttle body adapter is a little dodgy but I will install an aftermarket 4-bolt DBC throttle body soon. I have to measure the diameter of the MAF. If it is the LS1 75mm MAF, I will finstall an 85mm LS6 MAF. I will also pretty-up the cold air intake situation somehow.

    Also, I hooked up the vacuum line that goes to my exhaust flapper valve and it really makes a big difference in how loud the car is at idle. It's set up to close with vacuum, so at idle it's closing off the passenger side exhaust pipe causing all the exhaust to flow from the termination box through the drivers side pipe. It's also acting as a 1/4 wave resonator at some low frequency that I haven't calculated but probably pretty damn close to idle. Once the throttle opens, vacuum decreases and the valve opens to allow full flow. Sounds incredible and won't piss off the neighbors.

    Next is to get all the paperwork current, get it aligned, and start driving it. I know that a video is way overdue.

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    336
    My Cars
    BMW 525i
    Has it been at the same shop that did your exhaust again! We haven’t heard from you in a while

    I read someone’s thread about having issues and I had dbw and dbc parts so I went the cable route.

    How’s everything else been working?


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    2002 BMW 525i - 6.6L LS Turbo Swap
    Follow me on Instagram at @LantzFab
    Link to LantzFab.com
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    Link to my build page

  11. #111
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Posts
    577
    My Cars
    1997 M3 / 5.3
    Great update! Seems like a lot of extra work over a Holley EFI...but surely far cheaper to go with GM stuff.

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Houston, TX
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    1997 M3 Sedan
    Quote Originally Posted by Lantz View Post
    Has it been at the same shop that did your exhaust again! We haven’t heard from you in a while

    I read someone’s thread about having issues and I had dbw and dbc parts so I went the cable route.

    How’s everything else been working?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Don’t jinx me! Lol. I have to go back and have some more supports welded into the termination box to eliminate a resonance that I’ve read others experienced with too little internal support, and to have the mid section ceramic coated because it’s close to the GIUBO.

    Everything else is working fine as far as I can tell. I need to get some time in the seat to shake it down. Once it’s legal again and aligned I’ll start daily driving it.


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  13. #113
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Houston, TX
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    1997 M3 Sedan
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Mc View Post
    Great update! Seems like a lot of extra work over a Holley EFI...but surely far cheaper to go with GM stuff.
    It sure wasn’t worth all the headache to run the DBW GM controls.

    I’m stuck using the GM stuff for a few more years because of OBD2 emissions.

    The DBC GM stuff was really straightforward. I would probably use it again.


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  14. #114
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Houston, TX
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    1997 M3 Sedan
    Small update:

    Got the car back from the exhaust shop and have been driving it as often as possible. The extra supports in the termination box eliminated the resonance. It’s quiet enough now to have a conversation without raising my voice. The part of the exhaust that’s close to the GUIBO got wrapped instead of ceramic coated because the local coating shop has been closed and I didn’t want to wait any longer. I think it will be fine.

    I noticed that my new, OEM balancer is wobbling. I haven’t put a dial indicator on it but it’s enough to be concerning. I have a Fluidampr that I’ll install this week.

    The camshaft I installed before the motor went in is a Cam Motion Stage 1 drop-in cam. I would have expected it to idle more smoothly than it does and my tuner says this is as good as it’s going to get. So, while I’m changing the balancer I’m going to swap in the Lingenfelter GT2-3 camshaft I had in the LS1. I spoke with Comp Cams, the manufacturer that Lingenfelter uses for their cams, and they confirmed that mine was NOT from the bad run a few years back. If you’re not familiar with the problem, google “Comp Cams failure” and you’ll find a 30 page thread on LS1tech full of entertainment. As far as the Cam Motion cam, I spoke with their rep before ordering, told him my goals which included a smooth idle, and that’s the one they picked. They spec’ed a custom turbo cam for me a while back that I was really happy with but they missed the mark on this one. Most Camaro or Corvette owners would probably be happy with the small amount of chop this has. Oh well...

    Other than that it’s ready for the body shop. I’m going to stop by a shop in Houston that my friend has been using for years to see if they’re willing to take on the project and how much it’s going to run me. I think i’m going to switch from Cosmos black to the non-metallic black. Thoughts? It probably won’t go in until fall. I want to enjoy driving the thing a little before I lose it again.

    Oh, and A/C is switched back to LS1 analog control and working great. I will have the LS3 CAN bus module up for sale shortly.


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  15. #115
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    houston
    Posts
    15
    My Cars
    e36 m3
    BigL- moving back to Houston in a few weeks. I’d like to check out your build when it’s rollin.

    I’ve got a 99 coupe w ls1 t56. I’m constantly upgrading but it’s a fun toy.

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Houston, TX
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    206
    My Cars
    1997 M3 Sedan
    Quote Originally Posted by e36m3ls1 View Post
    BigL- moving back to Houston in a few weeks. I’d like to check out your build when it’s rollin.

    I’ve got a 99 coupe w ls1 t56. I’m constantly upgrading but it’s a fun toy.
    Give me a holler on PM and we’ll set it up!


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  17. #117
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    houston
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    15
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    e36 m3
    Sounds good.


    Btw not sure how to pm. I’ll figure it out.

    Great build.

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Houston, TX
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    My Cars
    1997 M3 Sedan
    Cam swap completed. Back to a smooth near-OEM idle.

    I didn’t mention this before but the Lingenfelter GT2-3 cam required longer pushrods, +0.050” in this case. I figured this out already on the LS1 and had +0.025” and +0.050” Trick Flow pushrods on the shelf.


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  19. #119
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    Apr 2020
    Location
    houston
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    15
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    e36 m3
    How’s the power? Sufficient??

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Houston, TX
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    1997 M3 Sedan
    Quote Originally Posted by e36m3ls1 View Post
    How’s the power? Sufficient??
    I can feel that it lost a little midrange power but it’s still plenty for me.


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  21. #121
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Houston, TX
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    1997 M3 Sedan
    So, the car has finally been tuned. At the same time, a 92mm FiTech throttle body and the 4” intake tube and card type MAF I had used previously with the LS3 ECM. It was a street tune, so no dyno numbers but I have to say the car is significant faster.

    One thing we noticed doing the extensive street tuning was that the IAT was really high. The air filter sat right behind the driver side headlight with no divider separating it from the hot engine compartment, so no big surprise there. I have since extended the intake tube to place the air filter behind the bumper. I have not logged IAT since but have to assume IAT is lower now. I have also noticed coolant temp has been lower since moving the air intake to behind the bumper. We shall see.

    Another thing I noticed was that the majority of the time driving, system voltage was ~12.5V and would jump up to 13.9V during spirited driving, and go back down again when cruising. I have to conclude that this is due to the 1-wire voltage regulator I had installed in the alternator because off the odd way the LS3 ECM is told to regulate voltage by the BCM over CAN. I either had to find a way to reproduce the voltage regulation CAN signals to the ECM or make the alternator self regulating, and I chose the latter. I left the alternator alone when I swapped to the LS1 ECM even though there was now capability to regulate voltage by the ECM because I thought it was working fine…. I have a new AC Delco LS1 alternator coming today so I can reconnect the voltage regulation circuit from the ECM. FYI, the CAN A/C turn on module I bought to give the A/C request message to the LS3 ECM also provides a voltage regulation message, so I think that would have eliminated the need to go with a 1-wire alternator when I was still running the LS3 ECM.

    Lastly, I had been noticing a bit of on-center play in the steering. I thought it was the original 200k+ mile steering rack showing it’s age or the tie rod ends which are the only two items (almost) in the suspension I haven’t replaced. It seemed to be getting worse and I started researching and shopping around for parts. Then, thankfully while driving slow, this happened:


    This also has never been replaced, so it could just be age, but I’m sure the proximity to the headers isn’t helping. A new one of these is also on the way.

    Besides all that the car has been fantastic. Before the tune I wasn’t sure which was the fastest car in my stable but now it’s not even close. The other two are a tuned C5 RS6 and a B7 RS4. The M3 gets compliments all the time. I forget that now it’s an older car that you don’t see too often, so it attracts some attention. Even though I’ve thought about selling to move on to a new project, I’m not ready to let it go just yet. I need to drive and enjoy the car a little longer before I can do that.


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  22. #122
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    The Shire
    Posts
    23
    My Cars
    1999 328IS M-sport Coupe
    No issues with water with having the filter down in the bumper or not a car you drive in the rain? When I swap mine I would like to utilize the inlet the alternator uses on the m52 to cool as the intake box feed. Kind of like how the c5/c6 vettes do it already.

  23. #123
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Stuttgart, Germany
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    577
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    1997 M3 / 5.3
    Glad to see this swap is still rocking! The steering coupler is a bit scary...I don't recall is there a mechanical connection if the fabric/rubber fails as a failsafe?

    How many miles do you have on it now?

    Thanks for posting.

  24. #124
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Houston, TX
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    1997 M3 Sedan
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteBear View Post
    No issues with water with having the filter down in the bumper or not a car you drive in the rain? When I swap mine I would like to utilize the inlet the alternator uses on the m52 to cool as the intake box feed. Kind of like how the c5/c6 vettes do it already.
    I thought about the possibility of water ingestion but I’d have to submerge the car pretty good for it to take in enough to cause a problem, IMO. The “pork chop” is missing from that side and I may leave it off or cut some holes in it to drain water.

    The over the radiator intake would be awesome if you can make it happen. I don’t believe the stock duct for the alternator would flow enough for the engine but I could be wrong.

    I think the best setup would be an air box behind the headlight.


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  25. #125
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    Feb 2011
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    Houston, TX
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    1997 M3 Sedan
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Mc View Post
    Glad to see this swap is still rocking! The steering coupler is a bit scary...I don't recall is there a mechanical connection if the fabric/rubber fails as a failsafe?

    How many miles do you have on it now?

    Thanks for posting.
    No, there is no other mechanical connection. The cord woven through the flex disc is pretty tough so I don’t think a total loss of steering is too likely. But yeah, pretty scary.

    There’s 217k on the chassis but I don’t recall what the mileage was when I started the swap. I want to say 213k? Then there was the swap from the LS1 to the LS3 somewhere in there l. I haven’t really kept track. It’s garagemates are two Audi RS models so I’d say it’s probably the most reliable car I’ve got lol.


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