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Thread: 1997 E36 M3 Sedan LS1/T56 Swap

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    1997 M3 Sedan
    Quick update: LS1 is out, LS3 is still on s stand.

    I’m keeping the LS1 accessory drive but the LS3 alternator is physically different AND is regulated by PWM. I’ve read of people swapping the PWM regulator over to the LS1 alternator but both of the local alternator shops said it couldn’t be done and recommended swapping to a 1-wire regulator, so now I’m waiting on that to be done.

    Next problem is the oil cooler adapter from improved racing. Now matter how I plumb it, the inlet fitting is just too close to the header. I’ve decided to go with a GM oil cooler adapter and lines and I can have AN ends crimped on and drill and tap for the ports I need. Yeah, I’m losing the thermostat but I think it will be fine.

    Last issue is the centering pin for the GUIBO I had made was broken and it appears to have been broken already. I’m going to have to re-check DS alignment and maybe modify the CX trans crossmember.

    Sorry for the lack of photos. I was on a tear and didn’t want to stop. I’ll take some when it goes back together. If there’s anything specific you want a shot of, let me know.


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  2. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
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    FL Gulf Coast
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    E36 - 1998 328iS - LS2
    Quote Originally Posted by BigL350 View Post
    ...Last issue is the centering pin for the GUIBO I had made was broken and it appears to have been broken already. I’m going to have to re-check DS alignment and maybe modify the CX trans crossmember....
    Please elaborate on the Guibo centering pin? I'm going to have a one-pice driveshaft made but my GTO T56 came with the GTO slip yoke, which - to the best of my knowledge - uses the same guibo as the stock E36 driveshaft.

    Having never had a car with a Guibo, I assumed it was self centering when it's bolted to the slip yoke. Is there more to it than that?

  3. #53
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    1997 M3 Sedan
    If you look at the GTO slip yoke, you’ll see a small bushing in the center of it, in the middle of the GUIBO flange. There is a corresponding pin on the driveshaft side, in the center of the GUIBO flange.

    BMW does it the opposite way, with the pin on the transmission yoke side and the bushing on the driveshaft side.

    I wanted to keep the GUIBO and use a two-piece DS so I had a pin machined that threads into the T56 output shaft and cut the bushing out of the center of the GTO slip yoke.

    As you can see from the photos, it didn’t hold up too well. Oddly, there was never a bit of vibration. It could be that the transmission is moving around on that POS crossmember.





    I’m going to try to have the new one machined as one piece or weld the nut to the shaft and then have it machined so the pin sits square against the output shaft and also add a relief groove where the threads start.



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  4. #54
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    Stuttgart, Germany
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    1997 M3 / 5.3
    My question is why the switch to the LS3 alternator? If using the LS1 FEAD...I'm missing why you don't maintain the LS1 alternator? LS3 with a cam would make ~500 HP? Nice that engine assemblies are nearly interchangeable!

  5. #55
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    1997 M3 Sedan
    The LS1 alternator never put out the voltage it should with the field wire connected to the BMW idiot light. I tried adding a resistor but it didn’t make a difference. This happened with more than one alternator. There’s a field control output from the LS1 PCM that wasn’t used and I never tried hooking it up. Because of all that I wanted to keep PCM control of the alternator field when I wire up the LS3 but instead of a variable voltage output like from the LS1 PCM, the LS3 PCM uses pulse width modulation and the alternator has a specific regulator that varies field voltage based on that PWM signal.

    In the end, I’m keeping the LS1 alternator but making it self regulating. If that doesn’t work, I’ll look harder for someplace that can build an LS1 alternator with PWM regulation.

    The cam is really tame so it might be a little short of 500hp but pretty torquey.

    The GM interchangeability is incredible. I had a crisis moment once the LS1 was out about stopping the LS3 swap and putting in the L33 and starting a single turbo build. I had a 383 with a GT42 on it a while back and I miss having that abundance of power. I’m looking forward to getting this project wrapped up and just driving it. I think that’s what stopped me from changing directions.



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  6. #56
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    E36 - 1998 328iS - LS2
    Quote Originally Posted by BigL350 View Post
    If you look at the GTO slip yoke, you’ll see a small bushing in the center of it, in the middle of the GUIBO flange. There is a corresponding pin on the driveshaft side, in the center of the GUIBO flange.

    BMW does it the opposite way, with the pin on the transmission yoke side and the bushing on the driveshaft side.

    I wanted to keep the GUIBO and use a two-piece DS so I had a pin machined that threads into the T56 output shaft and cut the bushing out of the center of the GTO slip yoke.

    As you can see from the photos, it didn’t hold up too well. Oddly, there was never a bit of vibration. It could be that the transmission is moving around on that POS crossmember.

    I’m going to try to have the new one machined as one piece or weld the nut to the shaft and then have it machined so the pin sits square against the output shaft and also add a relief groove where the threads start.
    Thanks for the info. I'll pull the yoke from the trans next time I'm home and have a closer look.

  7. #57
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    Apr 2012
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    1997 M3 / 5.3
    LS1 ALternator: I'm doing something a bit different - running an aftermarket EFI system stand alone. The alternator/starter/battery will be separate. Can I not run the alternator as it sits - I assumed it would be internally regulated...likely I should not assume.

    Thanks.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Houston, TX
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    1997 M3 Sedan
    Front control arms and lollipops are done. Heat shielding is in place. Now there’s nothing on the car side that is stopping the engine from going in.

    In the engine side, the LS1 alternator with one-wire regulation is in. So are the OEM oil cooler lines. They required some tweaking to clear the knock sensor so some heating with MAPP gas and some creative bending was done. Next is to have AN fittings crimped on and to drill and tap oil pressure ports for the BMW OP switch and VDO sending unit. I can’t think of any reason to keep the GM oil pressure sensor and it would save me from having to drill and tap one hole if I can delete it. Any thoughts?

    Here are some photos:

    The inlet fitting of the Improved Racing oil cooler adapter points right at the header. I really would have liked to use this but I wasn’t happy with how close any fitting I could use would be to the header. The GM adapter points the lines upward.


    Like so.....


    A little clearance for the knock sensor


    Some insulation in the transmission tunnel


    For got to mention this. So, I bought this upper radiator hose adapter from JTR and thought I lost it but it turned up when I dug out my headers to send them for coating. At the same time I realized that the hole I tapped in the LS1 water pump to mount the BMW temp sensor now interferes with the DBW throttle body and has to be plugged. After 10 minutes on the phone with Grainger for them to figure out who I was and then have no idea what I was talking about when I asked for an M12x1.5 plug, I realized I already had one that was in the unused port on every LS engine I have and hung up. So, I drilled, squared, and tapped a hole in the bottom of the JTR adapter to mount the BMW sensor. Now I have a nifty sight glass too.



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  9. #59
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    Feb 2011
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    1997 M3 Sedan
    Quick update. Wiring harness is done with the exception of a few places that still need to be covered with split loom and to wire the DBW pedal and A/C module inside the car. Next move is to bolt the engine and transmission together and drop it in.

    And speaking of the DBW pedal, I don’t see an easy way to mount the GM DBW pedal in the e36. The steering column is in the way and I would have to make a bracket that mounts off the hardware for it and I still don’t think I’d be happy with the results. BUT, someone has used the E46 DBW pedal with a GM PCM with a small mod and it looks like it might fit in an e36, so a used e46 pedal is on its way. I’ll get some pictures once I get the pedal assembly and make heads or tails of it.


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  10. #60
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    Sounds like you are taking advantage of the weekend as we are.

    Thought Tipsy came up with a solution for the DBW...likely more than one way to skin a cat.

    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...9#post29834929
    Last edited by Tim Mc; 05-27-2018 at 10:13 PM.

  11. #61
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    For the life of me I couldn’t remember where I had seen a pedal mount that clamps onto the steering column. I even googled that phrase and didn’t find anything. If the e46 pedal doesn’t work I’ll probably go with the Tipsy method.


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  12. #62
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    So, I think I’ve got the pedal situation figured out by using the e46 pedal. The pedal mounts almost identically except the lower mounting tab on the floor that the pedal clips into is at an angle on the e36 and straight on the e46.



    I cut the straight tab off the e46 pedal bracket and had already broken the lower mounting pad off the e36 pedal. I used some gorilla two part epoxy to stick the two together and it’s currently in the car curing.




    Tomorrow I’ll clip in the pedal assembly and see how it feels. After that, it’s going to be a few weeks before I can work on it again between work and training.

    When I’m not wrenching on the BMW I’m out on ships working on these:





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  13. #63
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    Ha...your little BMW has more cylinders!

    What might the displacement be of that power house?

  14. #64
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    Feb 2011
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    1997 M3 Sedan
    That’s 5449.4 liters. It’s a 6L70MC-C which means six cylinder, long stroke, 70cm bore, marine, camshaft controlled, compact. The biggest we make these days is a 12G95ME-C, the difference being more cylinders, Green/ultra long stroke and electronic control, so no camshaft. These are used for propulsion on cargo ships and occasionally as generators on land.


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  15. #65
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    Fascinating power propulsion. Redline is what 500 RPM? I recall reading about a railroad locomotive...900 RPM limit.

    Thanks for posting.

  16. #66
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    These are low speed engines so they run at 100rpm at full power, give or take, depending on configuration. The lowest speed they can operate at is about 20rpm. They’re also reversible, so there’s no gearbox. Just engine, shaft, prop.


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  17. #67
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    Im running a GM floor mount dbw. Just some trimming, but it works well heel toe too.

    Thanks for the inspiration on a plave to mount the bmw coolant sensor! Ill do that so i can have my gauge on instrument cluster work haha


    I didnt know about that one company making that piece for AC usage. If you dont wanna program or build a translator, seems like a simple solution.
    Last edited by OKsweetrides; 06-24-2018 at 03:55 PM.
    1998 M3 Sedan - LS3 M12T56 - A bad addiction.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by OKsweetrides View Post
    Im running a GM floor mount dbw. Just some trimming, but it works well heel toe too.

    Thanks for the inspiration on a plave to mount the bmw coolant sensor! Ill do that so i can have my gauge on instrument cluster work haha


    I didnt know about that one company making that piece for AC usage. If you dont wanna program or build a translator, seems like a simple solution.
    I know the OEM coolant temp gauge isn’t worth much but it would have been irritating to not have it working.

    Did you have to open up the e46 pedal and shim the zero position to keep voltage from going out of range?


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  19. #69
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    Im using GM pedal #25835421 as my accelerator pedal. C6 ls3 pedal actually.

    That coolant is better than nothing! I got a phantom ground my so my aftermarket gauges spike to 255 even when it is only 190.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Literally had to go in garage once I got bk in town to look at what I got. I was in correct in my previous post.

    I can take pics if youd like.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by OKsweetrides View Post
    Im using GM pedal #25835421 as my accelerator pedal. C6 ls3 pedal actually.

    That coolant is better than nothing! I got a phantom ground my so my aftermarket gauges spike to 255 even when it is only 190.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Literally had to go in garage once I got bk in town to look at what I got. I was in correct in my previous post.

    I can take pics if youd like.
    GM pedal, that’s right. Sorry I didn’t catch that. If you could post a pic of how you mounted the vette pedal that would be great.


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  21. #71
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    Can and will do this evening!

  22. #72
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    LS3 is in:


    What a PITA to get the oil pan over the crossmember! I wound up lowering the crossmember a little to make it happen. It was a pain coming out too but this was worse.

    On another note, a rep from Loctite came to my office on Friday to give some product training. I asked about my pedal epoxy issue and was told that epoxy isn’t best for the application. The rep gave me a freebie of this newer structural adhesive for plastic to try. We shall see.....


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  23. #73
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    1998 328I
    Very nice!


    is the oil pan on the ls3 diff than the ls1 fbody? Can't wait to hear this bad boy running

  24. #74
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    The LS3 pan is different but I’m using the LS1 pan.

    It’s just like a few of us have pointed out, there’s not much choice as far as engine placement in that engine bay, especially not front to rear. It wound up being the heater hoses stopping the engine from going that extra 10mm back so the oil pan could get passed the crossmember. If I would have pulled them up out of the way I don’t think it would have been as difficult.


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  25. #75
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    Small update: All wiring connections are done, including the DBW E46 pedal and A/C request module. I wound up cutting two E46 pedal brackets, one to make a base and the made the bottom smooth on the second bracket so it can be mounted to the base. I used the two part adhesive recommended by our Loctite rep, HY 4070, to bond the two together. Seems like it worked well. I also decided to just tweak the mounting boss in the floor and add some washers to get the pedal bracket to mount straight.

    Next step is to start filling fluids and connecting the battery so I can make the necessary changes in HP Tuners and to see if my wiring job actually works.




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