Best cams, street/track car

[DocWyte]

So looks like I need to replace the head gasket on my car. Since I'm going to be in there, labor to replace the cams is minimal.

Seems like the best time to put in a set of cams. I use the car mostly as a track car, but it is licensed for the street. I already have all the other bolt ons, 24lb injectors, 3.5" MAF, M50 manifold, headers, track pipe, exhaust, etc.

So, question is, do I go with a set of street grind Schricks, or a set of SunBelts or ???

[pbonsalb]

The Schrick 264/256 add only about 9 rwhp peak, but lose nothing on the bottom. For a street/track car, I would go more aggressive, like the Schrick 276/270 or Sunbelt. The Sunbelts added 18 rwhp on a SuperStreet or EuroTuner project M3. There is an article on the build you can find online. They left a hole on the bottom end in conjunction with the M50 intake manifold, but a tune and Bavauto shorty headers plugged much of the hole and the headers still added 4 rwhp top end. I suspect the 276/270 Schricks would be close to that. Some people like VAC cams, I think called IP Dominator, that can still be used with hyrdaulic lifters, but I don't know too much about them. I find that a raised idle speed, like 850 rpm in the tune, works well with sport cams.

[TheJordanWhitte]

I have schrick 264/256 and mostly drive "spiritedly" on back roads, and If I were to do it again I would go 262/270...

[rajicase]

I always suggest getting the biggest cams you can. I ran the vac 286/272 cams and it ripped for an NA s52.

I ran the mild schricks and thought they were lame. The big cams were fun, but then I got a ride in a turbo m3. And the rest is history..

[DocWyte]

Definitely staying NA, too hard to keep a FI motor cool on the track.

If I go with the schrick 276/270 cams I need to replace the valve springs/retainers/lifters too right? Plus limit the vanos?

[rajicase]

Youll need valve springs, I ran OE lifters even with the 286/272 cams. And yes, vanos will need to be limited if you have stock pistons.

[DocWyte]

Don't have to buy new lifters for the new cams? Where can I get valve springs? I went to VAC's website, if I read it correctly they want $700 for their valve springs?

Holy crap, that's a ton of cash! Between those and the Schrick 276/270 cams that's $2,000 right there. Then the ARP head studs, all the gaskets, rebuilt limited vanos unit, cost for adding the oil cooler, labor, updating the tune for the cams, etc...

That kinda adds up fast! I may have to skip the cams if it's going to add close to $3k to the job. ($1400 for the cams, $700 for the springs, $500 updated tune, $300 rebuilt limited Vanos, labor to install) That would basically double the cost of my head gasket replacement...

[pbonsalb]

Maybe do the valve springs and valves now. Cams and lifters can go in from up top later. 20 year old cars need work especially if you want to push them hard.

[DocWyte]

Maybe. If it's that kind of money I'm better off just doing a refresh on my stock motor and saving the cash entirely. Or going with a set of cams that doesn't require valve springs/lifters, like the mild schricks or the Epic sport cams. Of course I missed out on a set of the used Epic sport cams recently. Didn't think I was in the market. Timing is everything!

The mild Schricks are ~$1100 and don't need that stuff, plus I can sell my stock cams for $350-400, so its only another ~$700 added to the job. That's much more palatable than almost $3000, just for another ~10rwhp over the mild Schricks. Doesn't seem like the more aggressive cams are worth the additional costs involved.

Or I'll use the $3000 for three sets of Hoosiers.

[DocWyte]

Or maybe do a set of Riot Racing cams? $475 is fairly attractive. Not a whole lot of information on them, doesn't seem like many people have run them.

[Foda420]

Or maybe do a set of Riot Racing cams? $475 is fairly attractive. Not a whole lot of information on them, doesn't seem like many people have run them.

A good number of people run them, including myself in the past. They're solid cams for the money, more worth it than the added cost of the Schricks IMO, but they're relatively mild.

Realistically you should replace lifters now at least, regardless of which cams you go with. Valve springs and retainers can be reused unless you want the bigger cams. When I bought my supertech stuff, Achilles had the best deals. Another thing to consider since you're not doing your own work, the bigger the cam the harder it is to time correctly. You should have an immense level of trust in whomever does that install. I've installed 3 sets of cams and done these twice. Wouldn't wanna do it again LOL

If you're not gonna go big cam now but might in the future I would do whatever the budget allows now. That way if a set pops up or if you decide to go in later, the cost will be somewhat mitigated.

[DocWyte]

Hopefully I don't go into the head again. The main reason I'd even do cams now is because it's very little additional labor cost to do so.

Jim Leithauser at Bimmerhaus will be doing the work, he definitely knows what he's doing.

I'd love to do this job myself and save the labor cost but I've never done it before. So kinda intimidated by it, plus I don't have the special tools. Or the time really, with the kids it'd take me several weeks to get it done

[Solaris99]

A good number of people run them, including myself in the past. They're solid cams for the money, more worth it than the added cost of the Schricks IMO, but they're relatively mild.

The Riot Racing option is a very interesting one to me, as I have cams on the wishlist. This upgrade is claimed to not need tuning. What I wonder is how that's possible without running dangerous air/fuel ratios. Does this upgrade just depend on the ECU's fueling correction?

[TostitoBandito]

I think any of the milder cams will run "ok" with no software/tune. Obviously you'll get more out of it with a tune, but I don't think they're gonna break anything on a stock motor/ECU. The more extreme cams will absolutely need a tune as well as other valvetrain/engine work.

[ben4bama]

Do the rebuild yourself and save $2k. Cost me 1k to do mine after buying all tools, etc

[DocWyte]

I'd love to do this job myself. I'm a little hesitant as I've never done something like it before tho.

Also with little kids at home I just don't have the free time to do it.

Decision made on the cams....

The big cams aren't going to make me a whole lot faster on track. What will is seat time and either R7's or R1's.

So while putting up a big dyno number is attractive, it's not a good use of my money.

At this point I'm either going with the street schricks or the epic sport cams.

Any info comparing the two of them? Any dynos of the epic sport cams?

[TH3 Shifty]

you dont need all the ARP shit.. leave that for those boosting.. not needed at all

when i did my riot racing.. i used VAC's OEM+ valve springs, its like 10# greater spring pressure and are like $385 for the set... i bought INA lifters, and re-did the valve seals (very cheap and you should do this)

i sell a cheap tool to do your valve springs, makes the job super easy

if you do the "street schricks" i think you're better off doing the riot racing cams and save $600

[DocWyte]

The ARP head studs are cheap. No reason not to use them, not much of a cost penalty vs stock head bolts for the added benefit they give.

I may have to call VAC tomorrow and talk to them. They have the best price on the street Schricks and are the only place you can buy the Schrick 276/270 cams, plus I kinda want to see if they'll sell me all the stuff in their oil cooler kit minus the S54 oil filter housing.

Paying $385 for valve springs is much more attractive than $700-1000, that brings the price delta down some between the cams.

The price difference between the street schricks and the riot racing cams isn't $600. The Schricks are $1090, then I should be able to sell my stock S52 cams for $350-400. Lets say I get $350, so the Schricks cost me $740. The Riot Racing cams are $475. That makes the cost difference $265, which I'm more than willing to pay for the Schricks.

[TH3 Shifty]

the core charge for your stock cams to riot racing is $500.. so you're better off sending in your stock ones to them. that way you are still at the $475 mark.. and you wont sell stock M3 cams for $350 or even $300 right now.. market seems to be off lately.

ARP is just overkill for what you're doing, thats all i was saying.. just added cost for no real benefit since you're NA, unless you plan in the future to go FI..

ARP head studs are $208 from ECStuning https://www.ecstuning.com/b-arp-part...FQW1wAodeXsFGQ

BMW OE head bolts(if you want OE) $52 http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pn....FUOewAodMG0ElQ

or get Victor Reinz for $17 https://www.ecstuning.com/b-victor-r...FUW4wAodVM0H8Q

in NA form you're never going to break a head stud, so $17 or $208.. that money is better spent elsewhere

[DocWyte]

Well, still a few issues with the Riot Racing cams, if you send your cams to them, between shipping there and back, plus the time they take to regrind them, it can easily be 3-4 weeks. Way too long for me, especially since I'm not doing the job myself. I need to order up the stuff I'm going to be using so I can have it in the back of the car when it goes to the shop, that way I get the car done ASAP.

Currently there are no S52 cams for sale in the marketplace. I feel pretty good about my chances of selling them. If they take a little time to sell, doesn't really bother me.

[Foda420]

The Riot Racing option is a very interesting one to me, as I have cams on the wishlist. This upgrade is claimed to not need tuning. What I wonder is how that's possible without running dangerous air/fuel ratios. Does this upgrade just depend on the ECU's fueling correction?

Correct, those cams operate within the DME's adjustability. Your DME can only do so much though and I've seen a stock S52 with M50 Manifold only run somewhat lean on the dyno. As noted then you would want a tune to at least maximize what you've got.

[DocWyte]

Well, just spoke with VAC.

#1 They're out of stock on the street schricks. (Dammit!)
#2 They recommend going with their double valve spring kit with the Schrick 276 if the car is a track car. That spring kit is $859. (Ouch!)
#3 They also recommend going with Viton valve stem seals with those cams
#4 Depending on the motor you may not need to shim the vanos with the 276 cams, but you absolutely need to measure clearance first to see
#5 I can piece together a nice oil cooler kit using a universal Mishimoto AN based kit, their AN adapter kit and a used S54 oil filter housing

In talking with them they feel the street schricks don't really give much power, which isn't a surprise to all of us. However the cost of the 276's increases dramatically with having to use the double valve spring kit.

[propcar]

are Cat cams not good? Seem to have two options.

http://www.achillesmotorsports.com/C...-cs-m50-hl.htm

[GG///M3]

Also you can get a head gasket kit which includes stock head bolts for like 160-170 if I recall correctly


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[Matutino]

I have aan almost NEW (50 miles on it)set of 256/264, that I might be selling soon, I'm installing 276 and will decide which one I'll be keeping in the next few days