I have tried to determine the source of this signal. It energizes one of the unloader relays, K3. Where does it originate?
Ed in San Jose '97 540i 6 speed aspensilber over aubergine leather. Build date 3/97. Golden Gate Chapter BMW CCA Nr 62319.
What is Terminal R?
2001 Z3 3.0i -Oxford Green/Sandbeige
2016 428xi -Estoril Blue II/Black
2018 430iC- Estoril Blue II/Black
2018 330it - Melbourne Red/Venetian Beige/Black
Turns out it energizes some relays in iggy switch position 1. Powers the radio, et al.
Ed in San Jose '97 540i 6 speed aspensilber over aubergine leather. Build date 3/97. Golden Gate Chapter BMW CCA Nr 62319.
Ah, thanks for the clarity.
2001 Z3 3.0i -Oxford Green/Sandbeige
2016 428xi -Estoril Blue II/Black
2018 430iC- Estoril Blue II/Black
2018 330it - Melbourne Red/Venetian Beige/Black
Actually, Terminal 15 is accessory (aka position 1 on ignition switch), while Terminal R is "running" (aka position 2 on ignition switch). There is a difference as things like headlights aren't powered in position 1, but they are in position 2. There should be plenty of locations to find Terminal R, but are you needing it to be powered in ACC mode as well as running, or just running?
-Paul
2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers, Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers
Just for clarification (I'm open for correction ) ...my understanding has been the ignition positions & their "terminal" references are:
- KL R (terminal R) = ignition position 1 (some control modules are running but not all): https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...inal-r/ZJqvn6a
- KL 15 (terminal 15) = ignition position 2 (all control modules are running): https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...nal-15/ZLzcuYy. {CORRECTED}
- KL 50 (terminal 50) = ignition start position
- KL 30/31 (terminal 30 or 31) = ignition position key returns to after start
Last edited by Qsilver7; 07-14-2017 at 08:16 PM.
Become a BMW CCA member! Click HERE to join and feel free to use my BMW CCA member #191509 as a referral.
2015 650ix GC (Moonstone/Cohiba Brown) <<~>> 2014 X5 50i (Space Gray/Mocha)
This is your own post on bimmerboard saying the opposite for R and 15: http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/860334
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
-Paul
2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers, Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers
(LOL) Yup...that's from 2011 when I also still used the confusing terminology "run" and "accessory"...which are still confusing to me when I read those terms...for some reason I find them hard to place as to which one of those terms applies to when only some of the modules are initiated (KL R or terminal R) and when all the modules are powered (KL 15 or terminal 15).
I no longer use "run" and "accessory"...and will usually ask for clarification when someone posts using those terms and refer to them in trying to solve their issue. I guess you can say...my thinking on KL R & KL 15 has "evolved" after tearing into more BMW docs & PDFs.
I just noticed that I also inserted the wrong link to the terminal 15 (KL 15) Pin out...here's the correct one: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...nal-15/ZLzcuYy
Last edited by Qsilver7; 07-14-2017 at 08:23 PM.
Become a BMW CCA member! Click HERE to join and feel free to use my BMW CCA member #191509 as a referral.
2015 650ix GC (Moonstone/Cohiba Brown) <<~>> 2014 X5 50i (Space Gray/Mocha)
The "unloader relay" on these cars is oddly titled. I think it might be a legacy 'error' in a way?
Many cars, esp older ones, would cut out all but a small subset of the accessories during cranking. On other cars I've owned, that'd be exactly what was called an 'unloader' circuit or relay. Basically almost everything would come on in positions 1 and/or 2, but then in pos 3 (cranking) some stuff would get temporarily cut back out again to lessen electrical load etc.
On the E39, as far as I can tell the K3 "unloader" is just on all the time in pos 1/2/3 because it's driven by term 2 of the ig switch via F43. Took a bit to hunt this down and unravel it but...
http://www.bmw-planet.net/diagrams/r...000009945.svgz
http://www.bmw-planet.net/diagrams/r...000017044.svgz
One the reason 'unloading' doesn't happen as much is likely that with all the computerized modules in the car, you can't really have those things booting up, then rebooting again when you hit the starter, and expect them to all communication seamlessly and maintain functions properly.
2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)
Former:
1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)
Seems like the radio/CD and lighting are turned off while cranking.
I'm sure you're correct re the various modules. These cars are so finicky. There may not have been any systems engineers afoot when this electrical system was being designed.
Ed in San Jose '97 540i 6 speed aspensilber over aubergine leather. Build date 3/97. Golden Gate Chapter BMW CCA Nr 62319.
So is KL 15 accessory position 1,
and KL R position 2 (run) ???
out of bmw manual
Terminals
B+ BatteryPositive
B- BatteryNegative
KL StandardizedAbbreviationforClamporNumber
Terminal
KL_0 IgnitionSwitch Off
KL_R VoltageIgnitionSwitchinACC,RunStart.Hotin ACC/Run/Start
KL_15 VoltageIgnitionSwitchinRunandStart.Hot(12V )inRun/Start.
KL_15N F01/F02.VoltageIgnitionSwitchinRunandStart.Hot (12V)inRun/Start
KL_15U/15i VoltageIgnitionSwitchinRun.Hot(12V)inRun.
KL_30 12VatAllTimes(RelayWorkPower).Hot(12V)All Times.
KL_30g 12Vwithtimedisconnection.
KL_30B F01/F02.12Vwithtimedisconnection.
KL_30g-f 12Vwithfaultdisconnection.
KL_30F F01/F02.12Vwithfaultdisconnection.
KL_30H StarterSignal
KL_31 Ground
KL_50 VoltageIgnitionswitchinStart.Hot(12V)inSta rt
KL_58 InteriorLightingDimmerSignal
KL_61 GroundwithAlternatorOutput,12VwithKL_15
85 RelayCoilGround(Signal)controlside.
86 RelayCoilB+controlside.
87 RelayOutputWorkSide.
87a RelayOutputWorkSideAtRest
Although this is a late reply...why is this even being questioned two year after it’s been answered and the correction discussed...along with links to the TIS that give descriptions etc?
- KL R = ignition position 1 (some modules are powered)
- KL 15 = ignition position 2 (all modules are powered)
...and again...I still don’t quite get what “run” and “accessory” means...so I still don’t use them because they are confusing and seem to mean different things to different people. It’s kind of like using “driver’s side” and “passenger side” when its not clear if the vehicle is LHD or RHD. The answer depends on data that isn’t known.
Last edited by Qsilver7; 06-13-2020 at 01:27 PM.
Become a BMW CCA member! Click HERE to join and feel free to use my BMW CCA member #191509 as a referral.
2015 650ix GC (Moonstone/Cohiba Brown) <<~>> 2014 X5 50i (Space Gray/Mocha)
Hey QSilver 7 - only slightly off topic, but i can’t switch off terminals 15 and R for a forced regeneration request. Do you know if i need to be waiting 16 mins for those to go to sleep after removing the CA key from slot before i try to proceed? 2009 x5 35d (using Foxwell nt510 elite).
Bookmarks