The elusive terminal R

[edjack]

I have tried to determine the source of this signal. It energizes one of the unloader relays, K3. Where does it originate?

[amancuso]

What is Terminal R?

[edjack]

Turns out it energizes some relays in iggy switch position 1. Powers the radio, et al.

[amancuso]

Ah, thanks for the clarity.

[blackknight530i]

Actually, Terminal 15 is accessory (aka position 1 on ignition switch), while Terminal R is "running" (aka position 2 on ignition switch). There is a difference as things like headlights aren't powered in position 1, but they are in position 2. There should be plenty of locations to find Terminal R, but are you needing it to be powered in ACC mode as well as running, or just running?

[Qsilver7]

Just for clarification (I'm open for correction ) ...my understanding has been the ignition positions & their "terminal" references are:

• KL R (terminal R) = ignition position 1 (some control modules are running but not all): https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...inal-r/ZJqvn6a
• KL 15 (terminal 15) = ignition position 2 (all control modules are running): https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...nal-15/ZLzcuYy. {CORRECTED}
• KL 50 (terminal 50) = ignition start position
• KL 30/31 (terminal 30 or 31) = ignition position key returns to after start

[blackknight530i]

Just for clarification (I'm open for correction ) ...my understanding has been the ignition positions & their "terminal" references are:

• KL R (terminal R) = ignition position 1 (some control modules are running but not all): https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...inal-r/ZJqvn6a
• KL 15 (terminal 15) = ignition position 2 (all control modules are running): https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...inal-r/ZJqvn6a
• KL 50 (terminal 50) = ignition start position
• KL 30/31 (terminal 30 or 31) = ignition position key returns to after start

This is your own post on bimmerboard saying the opposite for R and 15: http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/860334

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Qsilver7]

This is your own post on bimmerboard saying the opposite for R and 15: http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/860334

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

(LOL) Yup...that's from 2011 when I also still used the confusing terminology "run" and "accessory"...which are still confusing to me when I read those terms...for some reason I find them hard to place as to which one of those terms applies to when only some of the modules are initiated (KL R or terminal R) and when all the modules are powered (KL 15 or terminal 15).

I no longer use "run" and "accessory"...and will usually ask for clarification when someone posts using those terms and refer to them in trying to solve their issue. I guess you can say...my thinking on KL R & KL 15 has "evolved" after tearing into more BMW docs & PDFs.

I just noticed that I also inserted the wrong link to the terminal 15 (KL 15) Pin out...here's the correct one: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...nal-15/ZLzcuYy

[geargrinder]

The "unloader relay" on these cars is oddly titled. I think it might be a legacy 'error' in a way?

Many cars, esp older ones, would cut out all but a small subset of the accessories during cranking. On other cars I've owned, that'd be exactly what was called an 'unloader' circuit or relay. Basically almost everything would come on in positions 1 and/or 2, but then in pos 3 (cranking) some stuff would get temporarily cut back out again to lessen electrical load etc.

On the E39, as far as I can tell the K3 "unloader" is just on all the time in pos 1/2/3 because it's driven by term 2 of the ig switch via F43. Took a bit to hunt this down and unravel it but...

http://www.bmw-planet.net/diagrams/r...000009945.svgz

http://www.bmw-planet.net/diagrams/r...000017044.svgz

One the reason 'unloading' doesn't happen as much is likely that with all the computerized modules in the car, you can't really have those things booting up, then rebooting again when you hit the starter, and expect them to all communication seamlessly and maintain functions properly.

[edjack]

Seems like the radio/CD and lighting are turned off while cranking.

I'm sure you're correct re the various modules. These cars are so finicky. There may not have been any systems engineers afoot when this electrical system was being designed.

[deepblonde]

So is KL 15 accessory position 1,
and KL R position 2 (run) ???

[lanr]

So is KL 15 accessory position 1,
and KL R position 2 (run) ???

out of bmw manual

Terminals
B+ Battery￿Positive
B- Battery￿Negative
KL Standardized￿Abbreviation￿for￿Clamp￿or￿Number
Terminal
KL_0 Ignition￿Switch Off
KL_R Voltage￿Ignition￿Switch￿in￿ACC,￿Run￿Start.￿Hot￿in￿ ACC/Run/Start
KL_15 Voltage￿Ignition￿Switch￿in￿Run￿and￿Start.￿Hot￿(12V )￿in￿Run/Start.
KL_15N F01/F02.￿Voltage￿Ignition￿Switch￿in￿Run￿and￿Start.￿Hot ￿(12V)￿in￿Run/Start
KL_15U/15i Voltage￿Ignition￿Switch￿in￿Run.￿Hot￿(12V)￿in￿Run.
KL_30 12V￿at￿All￿Times￿(Relay￿Work￿Power).￿Hot￿(12V)￿All ￿Times.
KL_30g 12V￿with￿time￿disconnection.
KL_30B F01/F02.￿12V￿with￿time￿disconnection.
KL_30g-f 12V￿with￿fault￿disconnection.
KL_30F F01/F02.￿12V￿with￿fault￿disconnection.
KL_30H Starter￿Signal
KL_31 Ground
KL_50 Voltage￿Ignition￿switch￿in￿Start.￿Hot￿(12V)￿in￿Sta rt
KL_58 Interior￿Lighting￿Dimmer￿Signal
KL_61 Ground￿with￿Alternator￿Output,￿12V￿with￿KL_15
85 Relay￿Coil￿Ground￿(Signal)￿control￿side.
86 Relay￿Coil￿B+￿control￿side.
87 Relay￿Output￿Work￿Side.
87a Relay￿Output￿Work￿Side￿At￿Rest

[Qsilver7]

So is KL 15 accessory position 1,
and KL R position 2 (run) ???

Although this is a late reply...why is this even being questioned two year after it’s been answered and the correction discussed...along with links to the TIS that give descriptions etc?

• KL R = ignition position 1 (some modules are powered)
• KL 15 = ignition position 2 (all modules are powered)

...and again...I still don’t quite get what “run” and “accessory” means...so I still don’t use them because they are confusing and seem to mean different things to different people. It’s kind of like using “driver’s side” and “passenger side” when its not clear if the vehicle is LHD or RHD. The answer depends on data that isn’t known.

[Marti Mouse]

Although this is a late reply...why is this even being questioned two year after it’s been answered and the correction discussed...along with links to the TIS that give descriptions etc?

• KL R = ignition position 1 (some modules are powered)
• KL 15 = ignition position 2 (all modules are powered)

...and again...I still don’t quite get what “run” and “accessory” means...so I still don’t use them because they are confusing and seem to mean different things to different people. It’s kind of like using “driver’s side” and “passenger side” when its not clear if the vehicle is LHD or RHD. The answer depends on data that isn’t known.

Hey QSilver 7 - only slightly off topic, but i can’t switch off terminals 15 and R for a forced regeneration request. Do you know if i need to be waiting 16 mins for those to go to sleep after removing the CA key from slot before i try to proceed? 2009 x5 35d (using Foxwell nt510 elite).