Can I get seat out with keeping hard top on?

[B R]

Getting ready to R & R my fuel pump assy. I have a hard top on now, and really don't want to take it off if I don't need to. Sooo, has anyone removed the seats while keeping the hard top on? If yes, was it a total pain or not too bad?

Thanks.

[Randy Forbes]

Just unbolt the seat, lift it clear of the front studs and move it forward 8"-10"; plenty of room to work.

[BimmerBreaker]

Coupe guys would have a pretty tough life if the answer to that was "No"

[B R]

Just unbolt the seat, lift it clear of the front studs and move it forward 8"-10"; plenty of room to work.

Hi Randy, thanks for your quick reply. Ok, I'll try that, certainly sounds easier, just hope that it gives me enough room to work.

Ordered the part today, and it's supposed to get here in a few days, just when it's going to get hotter here. I hate working on cars in 100 degree weather , so who knows how long it will be until I actually get around to tackling this project.

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Coupe guys would have a pretty tough life if the answer to that was "No"

Yes, but Coupe roof is different than the hard top, I don't know which is better or worse as far as room to maneuver the seat out?

[BimmerBreaker]

It is different but clearance around the window is pretty similar, within maybe 1-2". You'll have plenty of room to get it out, put the seatback in the uppermost position and center the seat over the rails

[BladeRunner919]

I've done it with the roof up with no problems, which is basically the same thing.

[Mr Bingley]

I'm guessing you can replace the fuel pump with the hard top on, but why would you want to--it's so easy to remove and just limits access? I agree with Randy, just unbolt and move the seat forward without removing it either way.

[B R]

UPDATE: I decided yesterday to tackle the job. Unbolting seat and leaving in place seemed to give me enough room to work, so that was good.

Took off cover and unplugged everything. I was about to start removing the old pump, but thought I should just take a minute to verify I was getting power to the connector. Put my meter on the plug and got nothing. Hmm, let me plug the new pump in and see if it makes noise. Nothing, hmm time to check the relay.

Kind of a pain to get to, but managed to make a jumper, and with my old pump connected again, it made noise, yay. So I got a new relay, and installed it, but I'm not sure that it really fixed the original problems, which was most recently engine not starting unless I give full throttle (normally don't give it any gas for starting), and also had some surging when driving full throttle (previous to the starting problems).

I guess I should probably install the new pump, but after testing stuff yesterday, I thought maybe the only problem was with the relay. What might have caused the relay to fail? Can a problem with the pump cause the relay, in this case, to stay open?

[Mr Bingley]

It is possible that if the pump were drawing too much current, the relay could overload and fail--possible, but not likely. More likely is that the relay died of natural causes and the problem is fixed. Has the original issue returned or is it gone? I would venture a guess that the surging issue is an unmetered air leak into the intake stream.

[B R]

Update: Just installed the new pump. A quick startup test and drive around the block is positive. But after a little more testing/driving...

I'm still having intermittent starting problems, ie won't start unless I give it some throttle.

However this did seem to fix the WOT hesitation problems that I have been dealing with for the last year. Car runs much better now, almost fast, always thought it was starving for fuel.

So I started thinking about the previous things I did, which might be messing up the starting, now that the pump is working properly. That was mainly increasing the fuel pressure via the regulator. I can't remember how many turns I cranked it up before, I think at least 2. Just now I backed it off 1 turn, and maybe this has helped start up? Have to try driving it around more and more startups. However in the midst of this latest adjustment, I got a CEL now. That's it, I quit for tonight. I'll check the code later on, maybe tomorrow. Strange thing is it's running pretty good right now, I'll be curious to see what's going on with the CEL.

[B R]

More updates. Pulled codes, got all kinds of random stuff, well not really random, but all related to a rough running engine. Cleared the codes and no more CEL.

Backed off the fuel pressure some more, but didn't really help with the startup.

Started reading about ICV. So I pulled that off and tried to clean it. So far that seems to have helped, but I will have to do more testing to know for sure if it's fixed or not.

[B R]

Update: ICV is not the problem, and am still having the same starting problem. It seems intermittent only because I think that after I have managed to start the car, and if it has been warmed up, or still warm, then starting will be ok and basically normal. BUT if it's been sitting for many hours (12+?) then I'm almost guaranteed to have the starting issue. So this is now more of a Cold start problem. Anyone have ideas on what to check next?

Thanks

[Mr Bingley]

It sounds like your fuel pressure leaks down when the car sits overnight, and is slow to start in the morning because it has to pump back up. I'm guessing that opening the throttle actually has no effect, it's just what you do when it takes too long to start, and is coincident with the fuel pressure finally getting back up. Try starting it when it's cold without touching the throttle no matter what and see if I'm right. I assume you've done the basics already--spark plugs, fuel and air filters, and that you've cleaned the engine and looked for any unmetered air leaks. BTW, whatever caused you to touch the fuel pressure regulator?

[BimmerBreaker]

Update: ICV is not the problem, and am still having the same starting problem

Can you define that a bit better? Is it making a noise when you try to crank? Starter clicking but not spinning? Cranking but not firing? Firing but not catching?

[B R]

It sounds like your fuel pressure leaks down when the car sits overnight, and is slow to start in the morning because it has to pump back up. I'm guessing that opening the throttle actually has no effect, it's just what you do when it takes too long to start, and is coincident with the fuel pressure finally getting back up. Try starting it when it's cold without touching the throttle no matter what and see if I'm right. I assume you've done the basics already--spark plugs, fuel and air filters, and that you've cleaned the engine and looked for any unmetered air leaks. BTW, whatever caused you to touch the fuel pressure regulator?

Yes I agree it almost seems like it looses pressure after sitting. But when I first turn ignition on, before cranking, I do hear the pump run, so it should be pressurized at that point.

I have tried to crank without giving it any throttle, and I would just kill the battery and starter by doing that.

I checked/cleaned plugs & air filter. Replaced fuel filter.

I haven't checked for any leaks because once car is started, it runs great.

Reason I was increasing fuel pressure with the regulator was for an earlier problem of hesitation under full throttle, which seemed like fuel starvation. Increasing the fuel pressure had helped a little, but now with the new pump, that problem is gone, runs very strong through whole rev range. I thought with the new pump maybe pressure was too high now? But the "cold" start problem occurred before I changed the pump, and that is why I changed the pump, thinking that was the problem with starting. Well the new pump didn't fix the starting problem, but it has fixed the original WOT problem.

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Can you define that a bit better? Is it making a noise when you try to crank? Starter clicking but not spinning? Cranking but not firing? Firing but not catching?

Starting procedure is all normal, other than engine doesn't start making explosions unless I give it full throttle.

[B R]

So today, not too much new, except I got a CEL again. Pulled a PO130 (O2 sensor), P1550 & P1509, which might point back to the ICV again. Cleared the codes and everything seemed like how it was before.

My previous test of the ICV was to start the car, have it idling ok, and then I disconnected the plug on it, which caused the engine to die. That seemed to me like the ICV was fine. Is there some other way to test?

[Randy Forbes]

Just to rule it out, and because it has cured cold starting problems for me on a couple of my own cars, send the injectors out__all six (6) of them__for cleaning and calibration tests.

I use Injector Rx: https://www.injectorrx.com/ Reasonably priced, and Very Quick turnaround.

IF you have an injector that's dribbling, you can easily flood a cylinder (you can look for a wet plug the next time you can't get it started...). Also, when you attempt to start it, allow a few seconds for the fuel pump to charge the line (Note: the S-54 doesn't maintain full pressure on the rail like the S-52 does) and then crank it as long as it takes (within reason, you don't want to overheat the starter motor) because if you're cranking in short bursts, every time you turn the key off/on, you're running the fuel pump again, contributing to more flooding.

If you've tried everything else, what do you have to lose? With as long as they've been in service already, they're due for some attention.

[B R]

Just to rule it out, and because it has cured cold starting problems for me on a couple of my own cars, send the injectors out__all six (6) of them__for cleaning and calibration tests.

I use Injector Rx: https://www.injectorrx.com/ Reasonably priced, and Very Quick turnaround.

IF you have an injector that's dribbling, you can easily flood a cylinder (you can look for a wet plug the next time you can't get it started...). Also, when you attempt to start it, allow a few seconds for the fuel pump to charge the line (Note: the S-54 doesn't maintain full pressure on the rail like the S-52 does) and then crank it as long as it takes (within reason, you don't want to overheat the starter motor) because if you're cranking in short bursts, every time you turn the key off/on, you're running the fuel pump again, contributing to more flooding.

If you've tried everything else, what do you have to lose? With as long as they've been in service already, they're due for some attention.

Yes I suppose it could be an injector problem. I like your idea about cranking it for a little while with no start & then pulling the plugs to see if any particular one seems wetter than the others.
BTW this is on a M44 with DASC, and only 22k miles.

[B R]

Haven't pulled plugs yet to do the injector test. Now I'm wondering about a failing Secondary air pump or system? Is this a possibility?

[B R]

Update: Pulled the plugs yesterday. Didn't find an obvious wet one, and also had an idea to stick a hose down inside each cyl. to do a sniff test, trying to see if any had a distinctly stronger gas odor. This test didn't identify anything obvious either, they all smelled like gas, but equally so.

I did notice all plugs looked pretty dark, seemed like it's running quite rich. I did a quick clean of all the plugs with some carb cleaner, and first start was almost normal. Subsequent starts have been the same old problem.

Also, a little while ago I got another CEL. Codes from that were P0170 & P1174. Cleared those and haven't had any new ones.

Some of what I'm reading makes me wonder about O2 sensor? Could that cause cold start problems, but let the engine run fine otherwise?

[B R]

Update: Cold start problem still persistent. Got another P0170 code the other day. Took the MAF out & spray cleaned it, but didn't help cold start problem. Still don't know what the issue is. I might give up and take it to a shop.

[B R]

Update: I did take it to a shop a while ago, and they said there was a problem with the fuel line. They replaced it and said I also needed a new 3/2 valve. I bought a new 3/2 valve a while ago, but just got around to installing last month. Immediately start up was back to normal, and I have had 100% normal starts since I replaced it. Car is finally running perfectly, yay!

I should probably sell it now (I have enough other cars), but my selling price would probably be more than anyone would pay.