don_dolarson
Yeah but wait a minute. What needs to be programmed or synchronized? DME with EWS or the key to EWS?
don_dolarson
I just swapped the chip inside my old valet and the new key from BMW and I don't know what's going on but I can only turn ignition on with the valet key, no matter what chip is inside it. I bet the ignition goes on even with no chip inside but I will test it out when I'm home in some hours.
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Is sounds like you really don't get that the EWS chip in the key has to be matched to the EWS unit.
A lot hangs on whether someone changed the EWS / DME and KEYS or if they just changed locks and put the old EWS chips in the "new" keys.
It would be ore logical to monitor the EWS status with different key / transponder chips against the pickup ring rather than haphazardly swapping parts and bridging connections
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Originally Posted by bl00keRs
EWS is a different problem from the wrong key that does not fit the car. The valet key is a physical restriction on the key, not an electrical one.
Have you ever heard a fax machine make the screeching noises? That's a handshake protocol where the two machine talk about what each ones feature set is so the one with the lowest feature set controls the transmission. EWS is similar, the car ant he key do a handshake protocol to determine that the key is the correct one for the car. You have a key that is registered with a number, let's say 000001, it could be anything. When the car sees key number 000001, it expects to see a rolling code that was assigned to it the last time it was used. If the code is not correct, the car will not start because the car does not know that the key it is looking at is the right one. When the key goes into the ignition the car reads it as 000001, and then looks in the EWS to see what the code should be, let's say it is supposed to be 999992. If this is the number in the key, the car will start and a new code is assigned, let's say 888883. On the next start up, the car looks for 888883 when 000001 is put into the ignition switch. If yes, then the engine starts and a new code is assigned, if no then the car becomes a paper weight. You have, or should have, more than one key. The second key might be 000002, and the code in it is 444449, when that key shows up, the car looks in the data base of the EWS to see what the code should be, and if there is a match. It's not so simple, I hope, as a 6 digit code, but you get the point. Each key has a code that identifies it, and the car issues a code that the key stores, and this code is a rolling code so that the key cannot be easily duplicated, which would make for easy stealing of the car.
The trunk lock will follow the door locks when the lockset is vertical. You should be able to turn the trunk lock to horizontal on one side and unlock the trunk but not remove the key, or to the opposite side and lock the trunk and also remove the key. When the trunk is locked and the key is removed, the valet key will not open the trunk lid. On my car, the trunk lid will lock the car doors, but not unlock them. I can get out of the car and put stuff into the trunk, then lock the entire car from the trunk lid. When the trunk lock is in the vertical position, the key can come out, and the lock will do whatever the doors do. The glove box can also lock with the lockset in the vertical or horizontal position, and follow or not follow the doors. (The locking feature of the glove box door might only apply to the 'verts.) The glove box lock only works with the main key, the valet key will not operate it.
My car is a '94, which I think is the ZKE, not EWS. My car has to be unlocked with the key else it will not start. I can lock my car and it will not start until I unlock it again. If the car thinks that it is locked, then it assumes a broken window or other form of unauthorized entry, and it will not start again until it is unlocked. It must be unlocked by using the key. The inside door handles will not operate the door locks when the car has been locked with the key, and the car will not start again until it is unlocked with the key. I'm a bit fuzzy on when the EWS was introduced, but I'm thinking that your '95 might be a ZKE car, not an EWS car. This means that your car might not know that it is unlocked, and is therefore refusing to start. If this is true, then your trouble could be the switches on the inside of the door, or perhaps a broken wire from the door to the bulkhead (A-pillar) of the car.
My bad. EWS is the drive-away protection, EWS II is the system that uses chipped keys. My car has EWS, it does not have EWS II.
According to the manual, Bentley, the chipped keys were introduced in Jan. '95. Cars before the production date do not use the chipped key. The point is, if your car is before 01/95, then your problem isn't related to the chipped key. Your car is convinced it is locked, and this prohibits it from starting. The affect of the ignition lock out is identical to not depressing the clutch pedal, or trying to start the car with the automatic transmission set to a selection that is not P or N.
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By your description, all locks on the car have been changed, except the glove box. Your car is a model year that straddles the production cut in for the chipped keys. What is the production date of your car?
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2015-05-19 09.17.31.jpg
These two keys go to the same car, the one on top is the Valet Key, it does not fit the trunk or the glove box.
Neither key is chipped because the production date is 07/94. My car is from late/final production of the '94 model year.
don_dolarson
I can actually turn ignition on and try to start my car without any chip in the key 😯
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On a 1996 car that means you have bypassed the EWS II unit otherwise the car will not even turn the engine over. However, that does nothing to sort the fact that the DME should not let the engine run without the EWS signal. Now you say your DME has been flashed to be EWS free, but with EWS errors read from the DME I suspect that is the issue.
The other question is whether the DME was swapped to match your keys and locks that were fitted .....................................
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don_dolarson
I can see a label on the DME cover and it's with a correct VIN number and I don't think that previous owner has swapped just the DME cover along with the label on it to "fake" the original DME because when connected to a laptop and running INPA it tell me about correct VIN as well. So if the VIN inside DME isn't changeable by software then I think I have an original one. My car is an 12/95 E36 328 with product code BG11.
I may be wrong but I also think that they swapped the chip in the key before. It is a 22 year old key so the glue may losed it properties but it was quite easy to open up the key and take the chip out from there and quite hard to open up the new BMW key and the chip itself was glued much harder than the older one.
Last edited by bl00keRs; 07-14-2017 at 05:56 AM.
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Anything can be changed but chances are it's the original DME
So that means either the lock changer already had EWS bypassed - unlikely if you had to cut wires to get it to crank OR they used some original chips in the "swapped" keys for the locks
Or some other magic like swapping the EWS unit too and magically making the DME work with it - I do not know if this is possible or easily possible. I've never explored the align EWS functions and have no idea of capabilities
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I'm sorry, I thought I was reading that you have a '95. The production cut-in for EWS II is in the middle of the '95 model year so I was thinking that you have a "straddle car." Sorry for my confusion.
You're making this waaaaay too hard. The basics are always the best. There is an antenna ring around the ignition key hole, Item 6 in this diagram, that holds court over the handshake protocol. Without the antenna, nothing works.
But, before any of that, if you can insert a key that has no chip and engage the starter, then the antenna and the chip are not the issue. If they were, then the engine should not even turn over. Take the car out of P or N, or do not depress the clutch, whatever, and turn the key. The engine should do absolutely nothing. This is the symptom of a bad key or bad antenna ring.
You also said that you recently bought this car, and that it worked for a period before it stopped. You should be looking for things that can be different now, not things that have been changed out long ago but worked since they were installed. You are working on FrankenCar, but you are looking for brain defects when the issue is a splinter in the ass. Sorry, that looks harsher than it sounded in my head. The point is, you posted that the dealership sold you the wrong key, but the reality is that the locks have been changed for some unknown reason. You can only work with the key that physically fits into the ignition. The key that the dealership sold you is the right key, you have the wrong locks.
The Body Module (ZKE) controls the actual lock and unlock functions, and tells the EWS II that the car is unlocked in an authorized manner and that it is okay to start the engine. The ZKE does not check that the key is the right one, or not. It just tells the car that the doors are supposed to be locked or unlocked. If locked, the ignition is bypassed. The EWS II does a handshake with the key to confirm that the key belongs to the car. This happens via the antenna ring, that is a failure item by the way, and the RFID (for lack of a more accurate description) chip that has a fixed code to identify the key to the car, and a rolling code that the car assigns to the key so that the key cannot be duplicated.
If the handshake does not go as expected, wrong fixed code or wrong rolling code, the ignition bypass is such that the symptom set is identical to placing an automatic transmission gear selector off of P or N. If yo are not clear on what that symptom set is, go to any other car in the known universe and take the gear selector out of P or N and try to start the engine. It should be a big fat zero. No click, no clack, nothing.
I'm confused as to what your symptom set actually is. You keep talking about swapped EWS and the attendant problems, but all of those problems were worked out once upon a time because you bought the car with whatever it has and it worked. It's not a compatibility issue, it a malfunction that is new. If you can put the key in and turn it, and the engine turns over but fails to start, the issue is not the EWS or the ZKE or the key or any of those things that we've been talking about.
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The ZKE can fail to tell the EWS that the doors are not locked anymore, meaning that the car thinks that a theft attempt is underway and it will not start.
The EWS confirms that the key is the right key, and allows the ignition to kick in. It takes a positive from both the ZKE and the EWS before the engine will start, but the failure mode of the engine not starting is one of silence, not one of an effort to start but an actual inability to do so.
Without ZKE and/or EWS, the engine is a paper weight that does absolutely nothing. If the engine tries but fails to roar into life, the issue is not ZKE and/or EWS, or related components -- antenna ring, chip, and so on.
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The OP has inpa, before bypassing the EWS to allow cranking, which I assume generates errors, the system could have been diagnosed
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So, he's got FrankenCar, and FrankenKey. I applaud the effort, but it's little surprise that the car won't start. I can see a situation where the EWS can allow for engine crank, but suppress the coils or the fuel delivery. All of this is black magic to me and I'm gonna take a bye.
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^ I think I share the concern that haphazard changes may take the op further away from a solution and hide the issue
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don_dolarson
What do you think guys I should do or change to get this car back on the road? Buy an used DME along with EWS II and key chip and just swap them with mine? I can actually buy all them together from a guy for 100 bucks. My car is a E36 328 from 95/12 and that donor car is a E36 320 from 98. Do I need to align them to my car, my engine and functions to get it work properly with my car or just swap it and run?
I've tested all spark plugs and I don't get any spark at all. No spark with old ones neither. I tested DME relay socket inside it and I don't get any power on pin 85 at all. Tested battery, 10.2-10.4V when starting the car. Disconnected the DME with EWS jumped (will try one more time tommorow without DME and no jumped EWS) but still no start. I don't hear any click from DME relay neither.
I think that engine is getting fuel. Can hear a sound in engine area every time when trying to start and pumping gas
Last edited by bl00keRs; 07-21-2017 at 08:26 AM.
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The problem is now you have so much messed about with it's nigh on impossible for anybody on here to know what state the car is in exactly to help.
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don_dolarson
What you mean with "much messed" ? What information you need to try help?
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As I understand it you have chopped up the EWS wiring to enable it to crank, have an assortment of keys and chips and the ECU was messed with to remove EWS yet still gives EWS errors and then other ECU chips tried.
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don_dolarson
Alright. I'll take some live data from INPA tomorrow. I attached some screens from INPA as well. They have been taken before EWS "was removed" from DME so you can see what state the DME or EWS was. I don't really know if that guy who took my DME for EWS remove purpose, if he really did it but I think he doesn't because of the DME-EWS error which is always appearing. I will check that with him next weekend as he's on holiday right know. Anyway, I know that when EWS isn't jumped and connected like normal, I can get into Body/Immobilization system in INPA (otherwise not possible when jumped) and check its state. These number on there are not the same as before EWS "remove" (screens below).
Last edited by bl00keRs; 07-24-2017 at 02:29 AM.
don_dolarson
Could attach only 5 pictures per answer so here next.
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zke/oem alarm on an e36 cannot stop a car from starting
Buy my native installed ISIS ISTA-D/ISTA-P bmw diagnostic laptop. More Info Here!
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How is that relevant?
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This is patently false.
To provide further protection, a double lock feature is provided. This feature works by locking all doors in such a manner that they cannot be unlocked with out a key. This feature can only be activated and deactivated with a key from outside of the doors. AT THE SAME TIME A IMMOBILISING DEVICE IS ACTIVATED AND THE ENGINE CANNOT BE STARTED.
ZKE is the system that makes this happen.
don_dolarson
But would the starter kick on with this security system activated?
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