325i won't start! Any advice?

[stephenksuh]

Hey guys,

I just bought a 2003 325i last week and knew I had to put some major work into it. I took it to an indy shop last week and got a couple things done. After the shop, my engine service light came on a day later. (light has been on for about 3 days) At the shop I fixed the power steering (dude before me put PS fluid instead of ATF), new power steering pump, new rack & pinion, replaced valve cover gasket, replaced blower motor and resistor, engine oil & filter with 5W-30. Yesterday, I drove to a restaurant and was waiting in my car with engine on and I felt it sputter a bit. I turned the car off and tried turning on and after a couple seconds, the engine died. The A/C, radio, power worked but engine just died. I turned off and turned on a couple more times and the same thing happened- engine turned on for a second or two and then engine dies while everything else still works. Red oil light + battery light comes on but it might be because those come on automatically when engine isn't running? Not completely sure.

Got any advice on what this could be? It's at the shop right now and they're going to run a diagnostic on the check engine light but just wanted to see if anyone else had any ideas. I'm hoping it won't run up my bill because I spent over $2k on maintenance already...

Thanks,

Stephen

[dworthy]

Welcome to the Forum!

It sounds like a dead fuel pump to me. They should be able to check in about 10 minutes to confirm.

[jclausen]

Second fuel pump, but check fuel pressure to confirm

[stephenksuh]

Welcome to the Forum!

It sounds like a dead fuel pump to me. They should be able to check in about 10 minutes to confirm.

They didn't check the fuel pump. They checked the engine codes and it came out as a p0420, p0430, and po171. He replaced the alternator and engine as well as refilled the oil because it was at 1/4. I was driving back from the shop and when it was stopped, it did the same thing. The engine died but car was still on. I restarted it and it happened again. The next time it turned on and I was able to get home, thankfully. I called the shop and they said it's because of the catalytic converters and vacuum. Does this make sense? It's pretty strange to me that BOTH the converters would stop working at the same time.

[stephenksuh]

Please see me reply to jclausen!

[TonyAngel]

stephen, I'm sure that those that know better than I do will chime in, but I think you need to find a new shop and quit giving your guy money. The "P" codes they're giving you indicates that they are using a generic obd scan tool and NOT a BMW scan tool which is needed to diagnose problems on a BMW. Unless I'm mistaken, a bad fuel pump could conceivably kick back those codes that you are getting. The thing is, I don't believe that a bad fuel pump will return a specific code. This is where having an experienced BMW technician is worth his weight in gold, because he can read the codes, then read between the lines to get to the problem. The two guys that commented above are, from what I've seen, good at what they do.

The symptoms you describe sure sound like a fuel pump problem. Checking it is easy. Just check the fuel pressure. If your guy knew what he was doing, that would have been the first thing he would have done. I'm a nobody driveway mechanic that just needs to keep his cars running and even I would have checked that first. Odds are that your alternator was fine. They just changed it HOPING that was what the problem was.

[dworthy]

stephen, I'm sure that those that know better than I do will chime in, but I think you need to find a new shop and quit giving your guy money. The "P" codes they're giving you indicates that they are using a generic obd scan tool and NOT a BMW scan tool which is needed to diagnose problems on a BMW. Unless I'm mistaken, a bad fuel pump could conceivably kick back those codes that you are getting. The thing is, I don't believe that a bad fuel pump will return a specific code. This is where having an experienced BMW technician is worth his weight in gold, because he can read the codes, then read between the lines to get to the problem. The two guys that commented above are, from what I've seen, good at what they do.

The symptoms you describe sure sound like a fuel pump problem. Checking it is easy. Just check the fuel pressure. If your guy knew what he was doing, that would have been the first thing he would have done. I'm a nobody driveway mechanic that just needs to keep his cars running and even I would have checked that first. Odds are that your alternator was fine. They just changed it HOPING that was what the problem was.

+1 ^^This

Now just to explain a bit more, "P" codes are generic Government Mandated so anybody can pull a code from the motor. What this did is keep the Auto manufacturers from creating their own system and charging some crazy amount to check them. Yes BMW does have it's own system, and while the "P" codes are generic, they just don't do it any justice. A competent mechanic will look at said codes and use them a clues to investigate what maybe wrong. Normally those codes above would point me to 2 things: Fuel starvation or a Vacuum leak.

[stephenksuh]

That makes sense, I didn't know that. Here's the situation now: I tried starting the car again but it didn't turn on. I had the car towed to an indy shop and the tow guy called me after he brought it to the shop and told me the car started after he tried... Weird. I called the shop this morning and the mechanic said it started fine and drove around the block and the highway with no issues... Could it still be the fuel pump? I know the past guy mentioned there was a vacuum leak as well but why would it start again after being towed?..

[dworthy]

Yes. The only way to know for sure is to check the fuel pressure at idle (51psi), and while driving around. Just taking the car for a drive isn't going to work without knowing what the pressure is. Now the only other thought that comes to mind is the FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator) on the fuel filter is going wacky. That would have to be replaced anyway when you get a new fuel pump, but if it is original then it could also be blockage going on too.

[MIKYZZ4]

As Tony previously posted, find another mechanic, as you need a knowledgeable BMW specialist shop,
one who can run diagnostics and communicate with all the vehicles computers, and reveal BMW error codes.
Much more helpful than simple generic p-codes, as Dworty explained. For future reference, join the BMWCCA,
and I'm sure if you contact some members in your area, they would be helpful to recommend BMW shops,
and if they themselves are DIY mechanics, may offer inexpensive tips & repair help.

[TonyAngel]

As far as it working "now," I've seen parts with electric motors in them do all sorts of wonky stuff. Ever hear of someone getting under their car to hit their starter with a wrench just to get it to start that one more time? It might have been the jarring of being put onto the truck or a bump or whatever. Still, make sure they check the fuel pressure.

[MarcoZandrini]

Stephen, find a good independent ("indie") shop to work on the car. Try www.bimrs.org and the Tar Herl Chapter of the BMW Car Club of America (BMWCCA) for recommendations. A reputable indiecwill have all the proper BMW-specific software to diagnose problems. As for the potential fuel delivery issue, test the fuel pressure at the fuel rail. Item #2 in the link is the cap for the test valve. Pressure has to be 50psi at all engine speeds.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=13_0900

[stephenksuh]

Hey everyone,

I found a shop and they diagnosed it as a failed fuel pump and that seemed to do it. Unfortunately, when I went to fill up my tank this morning it started leaking a ton... Took it back to the shop and they said it was the O-ring so they ordered that and it's going to be fixed on Monday. Other than that, when I drive the car it runs perfectly fine but when I slow down to about 5mph, the car feels like it's shifting gears or it feels like a very slight jolt but when I accelerate it goes away. It only happens when I slow down to like 5mph... Any ideas? I also feel a very slight shaking in the car when it's idle but its very slight...

[TonyAngel]

stephen, I'm not real clear on what you mean by "a very slight jolt." "Slight" is a very subjective word. Is this as you are coming to a stop or is it just when you slow down from speed. How many miles does your car have on it and do you know when the transmission was last serviced, if ever?

At the time that the E46's were released, the transmission fluid was referred to as "lifetime" fluid. The transmissions on both of my BMWs have stickers on them warning that the fluid is a lifetime fluid and shouldn't be changed. With this, many previous owners totally neglected servicing their automatic transmissions believing that it didn't need to be done. Apparently, the term "lifetime" was subject to some interpretation and it appears that within BMW's meaning, it meant the useful life of the car (the max warranty period), which was 100k miles, unless I'm mistaken. The common consensus now seems to be that the transmission fluid should be changed at 50k mile intervals for max trans life and definitely by 100k miles.

If the tranny has gone much over 100k miles without the fluid having been changed, many believe that changing the fluid at that time may be dicey, due to much of the friction material from the worn clutches being suspended in the fluid and draining the fluid would cause the transmission to slip. I have admittedly never seen this happen in a BMW, but I'm new to BMWs. I have seen this happen in American made cars though.

Still, to my way of thinking, if the tranny is going to fail because you changed the burnt fluid, it was on its way out anyway and better to have the failure occur on your terms rather than on the highway while you're out of town on a trip. In other words, get the transmission serviced and see what happens.

Of course, if it has been serviced, we just need to figure out if you are, in fact, having a problem or you are just not used to how a BMW drives. I know that in my E90, especially in sport mode, I can definitely feel the downshifts as I slow down.

[stephenksuh]

stephen, I'm not real clear on what you mean by "a very slight jolt." "Slight" is a very subjective word. Is this as you are coming to a stop or is it just when you slow down from speed. How many miles does your car have on it and do you know when the transmission was last serviced, if ever?

At the time that the E46's were released, the transmission fluid was referred to as "lifetime" fluid. The transmissions on both of my BMWs have stickers on them warning that the fluid is a lifetime fluid and shouldn't be changed. With this, many previous owners totally neglected servicing their automatic transmissions believing that it didn't need to be done. Apparently, the term "lifetime" was subject to some interpretation and it appears that within BMW's meaning, it meant the useful life of the car (the max warranty period), which was 100k miles, unless I'm mistaken. The common consensus now seems to be that the transmission fluid should be changed at 50k mile intervals for max trans life and definitely by 100k miles.

If the tranny has gone much over 100k miles without the fluid having been changed, many believe that changing the fluid at that time may be dicey, due to much of the friction material from the worn clutches being suspended in the fluid and draining the fluid would cause the transmission to slip. I have admittedly never seen this happen in a BMW, but I'm new to BMWs. I have seen this happen in American made cars though.

Still, to my way of thinking, if the tranny is going to fail because you changed the burnt fluid, it was on its way out anyway and better to have the failure occur on your terms rather than on the highway while you're out of town on a trip. In other words, get the transmission serviced and see what happens.

Of course, if it has been serviced, we just need to figure out if you are, in fact, having a problem or you are just not used to how a BMW drives. I know that in my E90, especially in sport mode, I can definitely feel the downshifts as I slow down.

I bought the car at 132,000 miles and I'm not sure if the transmission has ever been serviced. It is as I am coming to a stop, not slowing down. Even when I am coming to a stop, I don't feel it until right before I'm about to stop when I'm going about 5mph. It feels harder than a gear shift but not anything crazy (hope that makes sense). I can just feel it on my feet.

[TonyAngel]

If it is that mild, it's probably normal or maybe the side effects of not having been serviced.

Assuming no service, I'd say that it needs it.