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Thread: 1981 BMW 320i e21 fuel regulator adjustment HELP

  1. #26
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    Yes, 30 A is rated for 80-83 and all other years, yet since its running 2 fuel pumps plus wur and aav and signal voltage/small amp feed to the main relay it does heat up a lot, plus the age of the wiring harness, connectors and so forth can add resistance which will lower voltage and amperage efficiency and further tax the fuel pump relay, plus as the fuel pumps age with the aav and wur aging this loads the fuel pump relay too. I have looked around and have not found a 40 A or 50 A relay with the same pins,,50A relay would never go out..

    Also the Hella update of many years ago(I drafted and published here) to the wiring harness addresses this issue of many devices connected to one relay by adding another relay to remove some of the load and dedicate the fuel pump relay to the two fuel pumps outside of signal voltage / small Amp--milliamps feeds is best, hands down.

    In most electrical if not all you can up in a few sizes, yet going down in sizes can result in spotty power, higher heat,more load, and so forth.

    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 09-07-2017 at 07:49 PM.

  2. #27
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    Randy

    Again , thanks for your help , you have lots of knowledge and I appreciate your help and time . I will get it and try it (Relay).

    Good news , yesterday I found another mechanic (young guy with computer and internet) , and he got it running , not the best but running in a temporary basis , and this is what he did , in the back of the fuel pump relay box , he install a jumper , because the other smaller relay (I do not know its name but it is Bosch) is "weak" and did not hold the first relay contact closed , and also , he found that one spark plug is not working (need s to be replaced) .
    Note : On the smaller relay next to the fuel pump relay , the cover is metallic and very old and we can not ready its #s or name , only it is a Bosch and made in Spain . Can you help me with its name and #s , so I can order it ????
    My old 320i , IT IS RUNNING , and the rest of the issues can be fix a lot easier , and soon .
    Today is raining very hard , so there will be no work !!!
    Thanks again

  3. #28
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    With Car jumpered and running,,points to the fuel pump relay---get the one I listed KAE 3.304.100 12V/30A.

    As too the other relay

    The relay next to the fuel pump relay left side generally is the main or lambda relay- 12V/30 amps-this should be a 5 pin relay--5 male connectors on the bottom- its listed as fuel pump relay, main relay and so forth, newer ones are brown and black color . $10-15. Get a Bosch one to start.

    Bosch # 0332019151

    s-l16i0.jpgs-l225.jpglg_6b7a1b71-c8b0-49d2-a645-ad6d4d0825ab.jpg

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOSCH-FUEL-P...Khgu6Q&vxp=mtr


    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 09-08-2017 at 12:00 PM.

  4. #29
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    I went and got me a NKG spark plug , to replace the one that is not working , but at the store they told me to use 0.024 for calibration of it , however , I red different gap numbers on the internet , such as 0.028 and 0.032 . Also someone use 0.07 , and they all claim to work OK .
    What gap # do you recommend ??? or use ???
    Please advice .

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by luis320i View Post
    Randy
    I went and got me a NKG spark plug , to replace the one that is not working , but at the store they told me to use 0.024 for calibration of it , however , I red different gap numbers on the internet , such as 0.028 and 0.032 . Also someone use 0.07 , and they all claim to work OK .
    What gap # do you recommend ??? or use ???
    Please advice .
    Haynes says .024"-.028". Some say .032" is fine with the '80-83 ignition system, but this should be only with copper or silver plugs. All plugs should be gapped the same. Beware the bigger the gap, the harder the ignition system has to work.

    the .07 you refer to has nothing to do with spark plugs.
    Tbd

  6. #31
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    Thanks for your info , I will use 0.028 and see how it works .

    I can always change the gap and try


  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by epmedia View Post
    Haynes says .024"-.028". Some say .032" is fine with the '80-83 ignition system, but this should be only with copper or silver plugs. All plugs should be gapped the same. Beware the bigger the gap, the harder the ignition system has to work.

    the .07 you refer to has nothing to do with spark plugs.
    The first couple of years of the E30's used the M10 and K-Jet and the same electronic ignition system as the post 80 E21's and the plug gap for those E30's is listed as 0.7~0.8 mm (0.028~0.032 ") ... so that should work fine for the E21's. Of course increasing the plug gap you will have to check the ignition timing too.
    Last edited by GDAus; 09-10-2017 at 07:45 PM.
    hmm .. Wonder what happens if I do this ...

  8. #33
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    Thanks for your info .
    Today , I replace the bad spark plug (was heavy black) and set the gap at .030 , remove the rest , clean them and re set at the same gap (0.03) , checked the spark plug wire and heard the click and every time I remove the wire away from the plug the engine started to run rough . So it looks ok now .
    There was a lot of gasoline smell at the muffler , so I made two small adjustments (gas and air ) and there was an improvement on the engine and almost no gas smell .
    I did not check the O2 sensor voltage (0.4 to 0.6 v) , because it was hot , so I will do it tomorrow and check what reading I get first and then make adjustments as need it .
    Remarks : The engine runs good and revs to 5 or 6000 rpm , however when at idling RPM and put in it in Drive , it feels like there is no power ?? , so tomorrow I will drive it in the city and check how it feels and responds
    If you have any comments or suggestions , they will be welcomed

  9. #34
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    Everybody that can help
    Today's additional information .
    I checked the O2 sensor voltage and it was 0.7 to 0.8 , so I made several small adjustments with the hex tool until I got it between 0.40 and , 0.45 , about 1000 RPM's and very little gas smell at the muffler , let it ran for 15 min and checked again , just about the same voltage , but rough idling (???).
    The tach started to work but very erratic , and I have no explanation or idea what happened .
    Went for a drive , but had no power and sounded like explosions especially during acceleration after a stop sign , and it took long lime to get up to 35 / 40 mph .
    The new fuel pump relay and the other one (relay) not here yet , I am using the old ones
    I am running out of options , and do not know what to do next !!!
    Please any ideas , suggestions , what to check and do ????

  10. #35
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    Regarding the tacho and 'explosions', you may want to trace the wire between the tacho and the "-" side of the ignition coil for evidence of damage/shorting. I'm not sure where it is located in the '80-83 wire harness, but there have been reports of damaged/burned wires near the ignition coil, inside the wrapping of this wire harness. Maybe someone here can help us with this, a little more than I can.
    Tbd

  11. #36
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    I'd Check the Warm up Regulator, no power to low power after idle could be this,,the other relay lambda relay has to work to otherwise the adjustments to fuel wont happen thru the frequency modulation valve.

    Randy

  12. #37
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    ​Ok , I will check tomorrow morning the tach cable and the ignition coil setting , for something obvious or out of place .
    Remarks : the spark plugs wires feels "loose" , not a close/thigh fit , I will check them again .

    Randy , where is the warm up regulator , and what to check ??? , how does it look like ??? , just be be sure I get it right .
    Lambada relay , same info needed ,please,
    what to check ??? , how does it look like ??? , which one of the relays is it ??? just be be sure I get it right .
    Thanks again for your HELP

  13. #38
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    The WUR( control pressure regulator) is behind the starter and has two plastic-Black gas lines going to it. You need a CIS test kit to check the cold control pressure,warm control pressure, rest control pressure and system pressure.

    33800.jpg

    The Lambda or Main relay is the other relay in post no 28. next too the fuel pump relay.

    When my wur went out the car would start yet zero to no power to get rolling from idle--took a long time to get to going, I got it rebuilt and bingo- all good.

    Randy

  14. #39
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    Randy & Co.
    I have been working in my E21 , and learned a lot during the last few days ,
    1 .- Cold start , no problem (know) , just turn the ignition key ON , and wait for 10 sec and will start by it self smoothly and runs . May not be the best way , but for know works . I can hear both pumps running .
    2 .- I have not received the two relays , so I am waiting for this week , and then install them , I hope it should improve .
    3 .= I replaced # 3 cyl.'s spark plug , cleaned all wires (spark plugs) , distributor , coil , no improvement .
    4 .- Today an old friend stopped by the warehouse and help me ,results : cyl.s #s 1 & 3 , not working , we get current up to the spark plugs but NO GAS !!!! , so no wonder the lack of power that I have been complaining about .
    5 .- Plan A , buy two fuel injectors and seal , and try again ( about $ 125. usd)
    6 .- Plan B , remove both injectors and clean them , and try again . Any suggestions on how to inspect them and clean them ???? Please advice . I install a new set of fuel injectors last year , and replace the fuel pump's filter .
    7 . We restrict the air flow to the intake and a whistle sounded , I could not locate it but we have a problem there , and I will fix it
    8 .- I hope I do not have a problem with the fuel distributor !!!
    I am making progress , but too slow , how ever this is part of my show .
    Question : does the injectors can/need to be adjusted or calibrated ???? I never heard of that , but a previous mechanic told me that , that was part of my problem ???
    Please advise a soon as you can

  15. #40
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    I've never heard of calibrating the injectors themselves, either. The '80-83 fuel distributor has calibration hardware for each injector port, but I don't know how the calibration is performed; don't mess with these calibrators unless you know exactly what you're doing. Have you looked to see if the little filters, under the injector line banjo bolts are still installed? (it's not uncommon for these filters to be removed)

    Did you lift the meter plate to check for fuel flow? This is the only time that gas is suppose to get to the injectors. Unless the fuel mix is adjusted too rich, meter plate/plunger sticking, or problem with leaky o-rings in the fuel dist.
    Last edited by epmedia; 09-18-2017 at 07:01 PM.
    Tbd

  16. #41
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    No fuel in lines 1 and 3 ? Wait on the injectors, disconnect the fuel lines to the injectors(use cloth for spills) put the lines in 4 cups in a row , jumper the fuel pump relay-key on in run position and lift the volume air box-air plate- fuel arm-for a few seconds and see if they have fuel in all 4 cups-- Robert has the idea lift the plate and watch for fuel flow thru all 4 fuel lines into cups.

    If cups are a problem use baggies 3 or 4 inside of each other for each line and use a rubber band to secure the tops of the baggies to the fuel lines and let baggies sit-then jumper FP relay and so forth-- a few seconds should get the results on whether the fuel lines or fuel injectors are the issue for lines 3 and 4 no gas.

    There is zero concern on baggies filling too much,,its just fuel--there is no air in this fuel--air is added in the intake port and vacuumed into the respective cylinders with the sprayed gasoline- making the air/fuel mixture.

    Remove baggies from fuel lines( cloth again for cleanup) and then compare each one visually and get a sense of how much fuel is in each they should be about equal.

    Then report back results and we can go from there.

    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 09-18-2017 at 10:08 PM.

  17. #42
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    Ok , I understand what to do tomorrow and it is a good suggestion ,
    I only checked today cyl.s # 1 and # 3 and there was no gas flowing into a plastic bottle (just a few drops) , one at a time . When I turned the ignition key on
    I just pull the injector from the engine and put into a clear plastic bottle
    Tomorrow I will check all 4 cyl. at the same time and see what will be the results and get back to you .
    Thanks ,

  18. #43
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    Yes, this will test your getting fuel thru to the injectors in more or less equal quantity from the Fuel Distributor and isolate the problem as fuel injectors not spraying fuel.

    The Injectors open up at ~ 44 psi , the pressure in the fuel distributor should be 60-70 + psi and this shows good main fuel pump.

    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 09-19-2017 at 09:20 AM.

  19. #44
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    Today , I remove all 4 injectors from the engine , and dry them with a cloth to make sure they were dry.
    Put each one inside a clear plastic bottle , previously checked with no liquid .
    Turned the ignition key one and waited for about 10 to 15 sec , and with the gas pumps operating , tried to start the engine for about 20 to 25 sec.
    I had a guy checking at the bottles for spraying , but he could not tell if there was a cloud or drops on each injector .
    However , I checked the bottles and it looks to me that all had about the same amount of gas , it was very hard to notice the difference . I am not sure .
    Re installed all 4 injectors and the car started ok , but with no power .
    I do not know what to say or if this test or tell us something .
    Can you give me your thoughts or findings ???

  20. #45
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    Randy
    In addition to my previous mail , I checked #s 1 & 3 , with engine running and there was no change in the engine , however , when I checked #s 2 & 4 , the engine was trying to stop .
    Let me understand , the injector opens at 44 psi ??? , that means is it a spring loaded ????
    If plugs #s 2 & 4 are working ok , that means to me that we have the right pressure from the fuel pump , right ???
    Is there a synchronization between the fuel distributor and the spark coil distributor , so each cylinder gets the spark and fuel at the same time ????
    Please advice

  21. #46
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    There is not synchronization between the fuel distributor and the spark coil distributor. K-Jetronic is a Constant Injection System, (no pulsing).

    Turning the starter motor does not help much to check gas spray from injectors, unless injector holes on cylinder head are plugged (because vacuum leaks). But this is not a complete test because small amount of gas is hard to measure and if injectors are dirty, they may only drip instead of spray.

    The injectors are not suppose to spray or drip gas unless the meter plate is lifted. Vacuum from the engine is what lifts the meter plate. If there is a big vacuum leak, the meter plate may never lift.

    Watch this, you can skip the first 2 minutes 30 seconds (regarding tank vent valve).

    Tbd

  22. #47
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    I changed my mind here, you should take off the rubber hood on the volume air box that connects it to the throttle body and use a telescopic magnet on the plate to lift it up, that way you can push it down to cut flow off faster

    Disconnect the fuel injectors completely from the fuel lines completely

    Put the gas lines in like 32 oz sport drink plastic bottles and stuff a rag around the openings of the bottles and lift the plate up and push it back down- easy yet fairly fast and soft with the telescopic magnet( cost $1 or 2)

    Odds are all 4 bottles will have about the same amount of fuel.

    The Finger lift Method is a more experienced method as the hood remains on and you dont see the plate at all.

    DSCI0087.JPGDSCI0088.JPGDSCI0089.JPGDSCI0090.JPGDSCI0091.JPG



    Do this and report back as Robert would say

    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 09-19-2017 at 11:58 PM.

  23. #48
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    Tomorrow , I am taking my jeep to a suspension shop and will not be able to work in my E21 , and , also I need to digest your suggestion in order to do this job.
    Is the objective of this test to check the plate operation ??? and make sure is working or free ???? , and , check the gas flow to each bottle (without the injector) ????
    lift the plate up and push it back down- easy yet fairly fast and soft with the telescopic magnet( cost $1 or 2) , I do not understand this part , can you elaborate more please ???
    Thanks

  24. #49
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    check the gas flow to each bottle (without the injector) ???? Yes check gas flow to each bottle without injector on the gas lines from fuel distributor.

    Can use any magnet to lift Air Meter Plate and set back down

    That is 1/4" wine cork covering the A/F adjustment hole--far superior to BMW hard plastic plug that has to be drilled out and hammered in and costs far less and easy install and remove.

    DSCI0092.JPGDSCI0093.JPG

    Randy

    Last edited by 320iAman; 09-20-2017 at 11:35 AM.

  25. #50
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    Sorry , I have been several days with out internet service , and finally I got it back (Spectrum ....NO good!!!!)
    I have some good news and some not to good news .
    Today , I removed the injectors and labeled 1 thru 4 , as well as each plastic tubing to each injector , labeled each plastic bag with zipper (1 ... 4) , turned the ignition key on for about 15 sec and checked each plastic bag for volume .
    #s 2,3 & 4 cyl. shown about the same volume , which is good . But # 1 had very Little volume , just a trace (you can see gas inside the bag)
    Taking into account one of my last e mails , which I said #s 1& 3 NOT working , and #s 2 & 4 working , with today's results , # 3 should have been working , but there was no engine change when wire disconnected ??????. Remember I changed the spark plug # 3 , SO , i DO NOT UNDERSTAND , UNLESS THE INJECTOR IS PLUGGED ????? , please comment or advice .
    # 1 cyl. , if I am getting very little gas flow , that means the line from the fuel regulator is partially plugged ??? or what is your interpretation ??? , please advice and let me know what to do in this cyl.
    Remarks : I have not worked on your other suggestion , yet , I want to solve the fuel injection problem to all cyls. first and see what happens If you have any questions on my text please let me know .
    I just got the new relays this morning , and have not installed them yet , I need to remove a jumper that a mechanic installed , but the gas pumps are working ok the way it is know .

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