computiNATEor's Build Log - Seabiscuit, Otto, and Manuel

[computiNATEor]

Here are some shots that I'd taken a while ago. I still haven't done a complete, inside-out detail; I've been lazy, it's been hot, and I drive Otto everyday, so it just gets dirty again quickly...

After the first full wax with Collinite 845:


When I first got home after delivering Hassan back to Torrence:


When I first got Manuel home:


Love the Euro-spec Hellas. They're fantastic at night.

[Ajcanadian]

Man that car looks so good! I'm asking myself again, "Am I going to make a big mistake to pass the offer of buying the 530i I always wanted?"

[computiNATEor]

Lol, thanks. It'll be a nice car for the next owner, I hope

[Ajcanadian]

Lol, thanks. It'll be a nice car for the next owner, I hope

I'll be coming down to Cali next month to pick up something E39 related. If you're free I would love to meet your fleet.

[computiNATEor]

I'll be coming down to Cali next month to pick up something E39 related. If you're free I would love to meet your fleet.

Cool! Sent you a PM. Ryan's in San Diego right now; I'm trying to free up some time to go meet with him, too.

[philly98540]

I put new foam in my drivers seat bottom a couple years ago. It's not that hard, just a bit time consuming. I used zip ties in lieu of the hog rings. Makes the seat feel like new.

[computiNATEor]

I put new foam in my drivers seat bottom a couple years ago. It's not that hard, just a bit time consuming. I used zip ties in lieu of the hog rings. Makes the seat feel like new.

Full size cable ties or the smaller ones? That's a great idea, thank you!

[auaq]

Nate, did you ever made a thread on car detailing? Polishing/compounding/buffing/waxing/etc.?? I know you talked a lot in the 'What did you do to your E39 today?' thread, but I was just wondering if you also made a separate thread or not.

[computiNATEor]

Nate, did you ever made a thread on car detailing? Polishing/compounding/buffing/waxing/etc.?? I know you talked a lot in the 'What did you do to your E39 today?' thread, but I was just wondering if you also made a separate thread or not.

Not that I recall; would you like me to? I can dig up the posts.

[philly98540]

Full size cable ties or the smaller ones? That's a great idea, thank you!

Normal size ones. Not the little ones. There are some threads you can search for that show this same method. My leather was still in pretty decent shape, but the foam was degrading. Going new foam on the seat bottom really freshens the seat up.

[computiNATEor]

Dug up the old detailing posts!

Ok, strap in, long reply incoming...

With paint correcting and detailing, there are a few basic concepts to understand. There are a TON of chemicals designed to work on your paint finish. Let's break them down into cleaners, abrasives, and protectants (not the garbage that Armor-all sells; I'm just using that as a catch-all term). And within each of those categories, there is a range of products that will work faster/harsher/more aggressively and products that will work slower/smoother/less aggressively.


Cleaners are things like soaps, bug-and-tar removers, iron neutralizers, clay bars/mitts, and all-purpose degreaser. Most of these are designed to remove dirt and contaminants from the paint surface without damaging the paint surface itself. Obviously, there is a scale of harshness to these; car wash soap is going to be significantly "less aggressive" than an all-purpose degreaser (like Dawn dishwashing soap). Cleaners, in general, are not designed to correct the paint finish; that is, they are not designed to remove swirls and scratches, but only to lift dirt away from the paint surface. By doing so, it may appear as though they have left behind scratches, but that is only because they can remove layers of dirt, wax, and protectants that have hidden the swirls and other paint imperfections. Some of these can be really aggressive, like Dawn soap or a 50/50 blend of isopropyl alcohol and water, and will strip pretty much anything from the paint surface. Generally, these products will be used with a good amount of water (waterless and rinseless washing solutions obviously excepted), and will be worked by hand, though foam cannons and foam guns are becoming evermore common.


Abrasives are products that are designed to "correct" a painted surface; that is, they remove orange peel, scratches, and swirls. This category is HUGE. There are tons of options here; everything from 80-grit sandpaper (yes, really) to "cleaner-waxes"/"all-in-ones"/"one-step" products.

Sandpaper is the most aggressive option, and is really only appropriate when removing significant amounts of surface texture (aka "orange peel"; that waviness that reflections have when you get up close to them). Sandpaper can range in grits from 1500 to 5000 for a typical professional detailer, but 99% of "driveway detailers" (like myself) will never need to mess with the stuff. Sandpaper will remove a significant amount of clear coat (of which your car only has so much), so treat sandpaper like a surgical scalpel; in the right hands, it can work wonders, but it can also ruin things very quickly.

Stepping back from sandpaper in aggressiveness, we have the category of compounds and polishes. Compounds, being the more aggressive of the two, are designed to remove heavier scratches and will frequently leave behind a "polisher haze", requiring a second step with a "polish" to leave the paint smooth and defect-free. These are the products that you will use with different grades of dual action polishing pads, from fast-cutting microfiber discs to soft white foam pads. A compound or polish can, in the hands of an experienced detailer, be used to correct just about anything in a paint finish (excepting orange peel). These products will remove smaller layers of clear coat, just like sandpaper, but way more slowly. It is possible to "burn through" a paint finish with these products if you have a very heavy hand, so don't just polish away with reckless abandon. Even so, with today's dual-action and large-throw polishers you'd really have to be an oaf to burn through a modern car's clear coat.

Now, most abrasives are going to be machine-applied and machine-worked, for speed's sake. I like Larry Kosilla's analogy for hand-polishing vs machine-polishing: you can definitely dig a six foot deep hole with a spoon, but a backhoe makes it much, much easier.

We'll come back to cleaner-waxes in a minute. First let's understand....


Protectants. They are the products that you coat your car with to protect the finish of the paint, trim, windows, etc. A properly applied protectant will make washing less likely to scratch your car, dirt rinse away easily, and rain water blow off like water off a duck's back. Within the category of "protectants," we have the old-school carnauba-based waxes; synthetic sealants; and the newest development, coatings.

Carnauba waxes are the paste- or liquid- waxes that are a pain to apply and remove, but they do leave a brilliant, "wet-look" shine that, unfortunately, does not last very long. From there, we have sealants, which are synthetic waxes (like Collinite 845 or Meguiar's M21) that enhance the existing paint surface and provide protection that will last far longer (months for a sealant, vs weeks for a carnauba) than a carnauba wax could ever hope to. Sealants cure from exposure to humidity in the air, and they tend to be easier to apply and remove than waxes (in my experience, at least). However, most sealants do not give the same warm, wet glow that a carnauba can provide.

Coatings are the newest, most advanced form of protectant currently available, and provide a very long-lasting, very hard barrier against scratching, dirt, and chemical removal. They are also by far the most expensive. There are specific type of coating to glass, plastic/rubber, and paint. The application process for a coating is the most involved of any protectant, and may require the use of specialized equipment like UV lamps to "cure" properly. Most coatings, however, will not hide ANY of the paint imperfections that were not removed prior to installation, so if you have terrible paint, adding a coating will just protect and display your terrible paint.

I've mentioned that carnaubas give off a warm glow compared to the sealants and coatings. Most waxes and some sealants include what are known as "fillers", which, as their name implies, "fill in" the valleys of a scratch and make it much less obvious to the naked eye. These fillers give pretty much any paint surface a lovely warm glow that's so popular at the car show.

Now, back to those "cleaner-waxes"/"all-in-ones" I mentioned earlier. Those products (like Griot's Garage "One Step Sealant") are generally a blend of an abrasive polish and a filler-laden wax or sealant. They will do a small amount of paint correction, while simultaneously hiding the scratches that remain.

Most protectants are going to be hand-applied; you can apply them using a machine with a foam black waxing pad, but I find the act of rubbing down each and every panel of a car by hand a very therapeutic process. I think about the design and manufacturing of that panel, what it goes through everyday, and how it contributes to the function of the car. Corny, I know, but I love it. Applying a protectant by hand also lessens the chance of the machine picking up some spec of dirt and then grinding it into the paint, ruining your hours and hours of hard work.


SOOO....

Armed with this information, let's analyze the first wash of a car (outside only). The first step involves getting all the dirt and grime off the car, using cleaning products like car wash soap, wheel cleaners, iron removers, and clay bars (if necessary). Second, we evaluate the condition of the paintwork, looking for obvious places where the car has been resprayed (the orange peel/surface texture will be drastically different), finding swirls and scratches, and then using abrasives to correct whatever issues we find. Heavy correction will be done with sandpaper and compounds, and light correction with polishes or AIOs (all-in-ones). Finally, we'll protect our newly dialed-in paintwork with a protectant, ensuring that our hard work will look amazing until the next wash.

So, my typical weekend wash will first involve the use of cleaners to remove the dirt from the car. Following, that, I find AIOs useful for "maintenance" washes if my paint isn't perfect to start with, as they do a small amount of correction and leave a lovely shine. Finally, I wrap up with a protectant to keep the dirt away.

Hope all of this was helpful, and sorry for the long-winded reply. I get carried away...

[...]

Obsessed Garage, AMMO NYC, and Car Cleaning Guru are my go-to channels for videos on detailing tips, tricks, reviews.

If you prefer written articles, then I can't recommend the Reddit AutoDetailing community enough; their wiki page (https://www.reddit.com/r/AutoDetailing/wiki/index) has a HUGE amount of useful info. This guide for "Your First Paint Correction" is actually where I got started: https://www.reddit.com/r/autodetaili...aintcorrection

I've been using 845 for a few years now. It's a good product, though I happen to prefer Meguiar's M21 Super Sealant. The Collinite is messier to apply and remove, and takes much more "scrubbing" to remove any dried residue. 845 does leave a killer shine, and the durability of the two is about comparable; I reapply (well, I did reapply before my car was totalled) every two months or so.

A bottle of 845 is, however, VERY long lasting. I've not even used a full bottle (I bought three on Amazon) and I've been using it on four cars for three years. It's an interesting product, for sure; check out this guide on it to learn its in and outs (and it's a humorous read, too): https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...tml#post528187

[auaq]

Great! Thanks.

[philly98540]

My neighbor used to wax my car with that 845 insulator wax. It's very very good stuff.

[computiNATEor]

My neighbor used to wax my car with that 845 insulator wax. It's very very good stuff.

It's great; I just started using the second bottle of three after having it for three years.

[dannyzabolotny]

I just use Ammo Skin as the sealant and then when I wash the car I use Ammo Brute + Ammo Plum for the wheels, Ammo Foam for the paint, Ammo Hydrate to dry off the car after a wash, and Ammo Spit spray wax for an additional layer of protection— essentially every time I wash it I build up the layers of protection more and more. I also use Ammo Mud for the tires and the engine bay as the finishing touch. I always use the 3 bucket method (wheel bucket, wash bucket, rinse bucket) and nice clean microfiber towels. The Ammo products are a little pricey, but they work remarkably well and I like having everything from one brand, it keeps everything consistent.

As for paint correction, I use a Harbor Freight 6" DA polisher with Meguiar's microfiber cutting and polishing pads. M105 for cutting, M205 for polishing. I also use Meguiar's clay bar for cleaning up dirty paint before doing any kind of correction. I don't know why people make detailing/paint correction into such a complicated thing, there's really not much to it once you have the basics down.

[computiNATEor]

The AMMO stuff is great, but pricey. I will be investing in it, but I might as well use up my stock of waxes and sealants first.

With correction, I'm transitioning to Menzerna polishes, as the M105 dust drives me batty.

People make detailing complicated because they are understandably wary about taking a power tool to their paint - something that's expensive and a pain to fix if they do it wrong. That's why detailers make so much money!

[dannyzabolotny]

The AMMO stuff is great, but pricey. I will be investing in it, but I might as well use up my stock of waxes and sealants first.

With correction, I'm transitioning to Menzerna polishes, as the M105 dust drives me batty.

People make detailing complicated because they are understandably wary about taking a power tool to their paint - something that's expensive and a pain to fix if they do it wrong. That's why detailers make so much money!

Yeah, M105 is a little dusty, but since I do most of my detailing outside it doesn't really bother me.

You can certainly ruin your paint if you use a regular orbital polisher. That's why dual-action polishers exist, it's almost impossible to mess up your paint with one. I guess I've always been fearless when it comes to my cars, whether its engine rebuilds or paint correction. I mean it also helps that none of my cars are worth more than $5k on a good day.

[computiNATEor]

Yeah, M105 is a little dusty, but since I do most of my detailing outside it doesn't really bother me.

You can certainly ruin your paint if you use a regular orbital polisher. That's why dual-action polishers exist, it's almost impossible to mess up your paint with one. I guess I've always been fearless when it comes to my cars, whether its engine rebuilds or paint correction. I mean it also helps that none of my cars are worth more than $5k on a good day.

Haha, very good point!

[JPR10]

Love the detailing tips. I read a lot of the /r/autodetailing sub on reddit -- a lot of the information you shared checks out with what they preach over there.

As for applying 845, what technique do you normally use? Microfiber pad and rub onto the paint, and buff off with a microfiber towel? How long do you let it sit on top of the paint?

[computiNATEor]

Love the detailing tips. I read a lot of the /r/autodetailing sub on reddit -- a lot of the information you shared checks out with what they preach over there.

As for applying 845, what technique do you normally use? Microfiber pad and rub onto the paint, and buff off with a microfiber towel? How long do you let it sit on top of the paint?

I usually use just a cheap foam pad like these. https://www.amazon.com/Meguiars-W000...WGKD67MS1ZB2WG

Just buy whatever bulk pack you can as cheap as you can. I pretty much throw them away every time.

Make sure you apply it in THIN, straight lines. The thinner the better, as too much just means the wax is impossible to remove. I usually coat the entire car, then once I've gotten every panel "waxed-on", I go back and "wax-off".

[Jason5driver]

I usually use just a cheap foam pad like these. https://www.amazon.com/Meguiars-W000...WGKD67MS1ZB2WG

Just buy whatever bulk pack you can as cheap as you can. I pretty much throw them away every time.

Make sure you apply it in THIN, straight lines. The thinner the better, as too much just means the wax is impossible to remove. I usually coat the entire car, then once I've gotten every panel "waxed-on", I go back and "wax-off".

Nate,
You really should just make an independent thread having all the detailing information for your E39 and sticky it to this section.
Great Stuff!
Thanks!
Jason

[Ajcanadian]

I had been using Zaino products all this time with my 530's until I got the M5. I got myself a buffer and got some Menzerna products. I did cut and polish my father's Sapphire Black E70 X5 using menzerna FG400 cutting compound & SF3500 polishing compound. I was very impressed and I got majority of the swirls out of the car.

[JPR10]

Random question -- My 528 is pretty filthy and has a lot of swirls from the PO, etc. I don't have a DA and probably won't buy one for a couple of months...

Would it be worth it to do a standard detail (without paint correction), including wash/clay/sealant -- or should I just wait till I get a DA and do it right the first time.

[dannyzabolotny]

Random question -- My 528 is pretty filthy and has a lot of swirls from the PO, etc. I don't have a DA and probably won't buy one for a couple of months...

Would it be worth it to do a standard detail (without paint correction), including wash/clay/sealant -- or should I just wait till I get a DA and do it right the first time.

Just buy a DA now. Harbor Freight has a decent 6" DA that's under $100 and if you have their 20% off coupon it's even cheaper. Or wait until their sales— I snagged mine for $40 like that.

[JPR10]

Just buy a DA now. Harbor Freight has a decent 6" DA that's under $100 and if you have their 20% off coupon it's even cheaper. Or wait until their sales— I snagged mine for $40 like that.

Yeah I was considering buying their DA and possibly upgrading it with new grease. The only issue I've heard is that it can be too loud. Do you have any thoughts on it? I was going to wait a few months to get something a little better... like the Porter Cable or Griots Garage