4hp22 sudden death, dammit! - SOLVED

[ronald1855]

So, you recently bought a slushbox and did not have the fluids or at least filter changed ? That's a needless risk. Perhaps you were duped by the 90k, which in all fairness, is only approaching middle age for a zf transmission.

Regardless, looks like you caught a big break here. A shop would have charged you $2200 for the same job that will cost you $100.

Probably a good idea to do a fast drain interval. What they say about pennies and wisdom absolutely applies to a transmission.

Fluid color is checked by putting a large drop onto a clean white kleenex and letting it spread out for a minute to see all the gradations. Eyeballing it on fingertips is not as reliable.

[whiskychaser]

Missed the 'bonus photo' of the disassembled filter on first read through. Time for a VB spring clean

[imola38]

Wow! That is one of the most gooey I've seen!

Looks like you've spotted the issue.

[ross1]

So, you recently bought a slushbox and did not have the fluids or at least filter changed ? That's a needless risk. Perhaps you were duped by the 90k, which in all fairness, is only approaching middle age for a zf transmission.

.

If I want any lip from you I'll rattle my zipper.

- - - Updated - - -

Missed the 'bonus photo' of the disassembled filter on first read through. Time for a VB spring clean

Here you go

[whiskychaser]

Looks like the dish after my wife has cooked a Sunday roast. I don't think the dish or your filter are supposed to look like that

[ross1]

The good folks at Eriksson have the tiny parts I lost on the way and I extracted the broken bolt for the pan. Ought to have it buttoned back up in a few days.
Clutch packs are somewhat visible with the valve body out of the way and they look to have plenty of meat on them. Hoping I've dodged a bullet.
Thanks to Shogun and Whiskychaser

[shogun]

Just for reference post the parts numbers and names of the parts you get. Do you also install new plastic balls? Usually they get smaller over the years.

[ross1]

Just for reference post the parts numbers and names of the parts you get. Do you also install new plastic balls? Usually they get smaller over the years.

Will post PNs but with the caveat that they are quite specific to a particular trans. The parts I lost are restrictor orifices which determine shift characteristics. Check balls were both looking fine with smooth surfaces. I did not measure as I had no spec.

[whiskychaser]

Well, it's great that you were able to get hold of those tiny parts. Was the valve body all choked up?

[ross1]

Well, it's great that you were able to get hold of those tiny parts. Was the valve body all choked up?

Not obviously so. There was some accumulation in a few spots but nothing that presented a complete blockage. I've yet to remove the solenoids. I won't be commencing work again until the parts have arrived. I am rather hoping for an Aha! moment but none so far.

[shogun]

Will post PNs but with the caveat that they are quite specific to a particular trans

I know, but I have a box full of different sized orifices and just want to sort them and give them a number.

Copied for info for the plate gasket:
Currently, you need four different valve body gaskets to service the 4HP22. Each gasket has been updated several times, so the gasket you install will probably not look exactly like the one you took off. Don't fret, Liebchen. You can identify gaskets for an
electronic trans by counting the number of “bathtubs” in the separator plate. Early models have one “bathtub”; late models have three. Just remember to use a gasket that has the same number of “bathtubs” as the one you're replacing.

Orifices:
Inside this valve body are a collection of orifice plugs. The plugs are sized differently, depending on which clutch they feed. You will not have a happy day if you put them back in the wrong places.

from: TRANSTEC Troubleshooter, ZF'S 4HP22, The Trans That Functions Wurst in Emission Tests http://www.transtec.com/downloads/re...3rd_q94r-n.pdf

Detailed write up with many pics on my website under fixes... Valve Body Rebuild ZF 4HP22EH

[ross1]

http://www.transtec.com/downloads/re...3rd_q94r-n.pdf

Interesting article, thanks.
The author needs to stick to repairing transmissions, his humor grew tiresome.

[whiskychaser]

Not obviously so. There was some accumulation in a few spots but nothing that presented a complete blockage. I've yet to remove the solenoids. I won't be commencing work again until the parts have arrived. I am rather hoping for an Aha! moment but none so far.

There's a lot of pressure inside that VB, particularly if you ditch power to the pressure regulator. So if the shift valve is intact, a blockage or stuck valve should hopefully be pretty easy to spot. I'd be doing what you are doing - proceeding with caution and keeping an open mind

[ross1]

Success! Shazam!
Recv'd. the lost* accumulator orifices I ordered so finished dismantling the VB. Nothing looked worn and there was no accumulations of dirt or anything stuck and solenoids all checked out too. I had feeble hopes this cleaning would make any difference but it did.
Two of the pistons in the valve body needed to be blown out but there was no evidence(I saw) of any debris binding them. Nothing was scored, everything looked fine, quite good actually.
I really cannot explain it other than perhaps the cumulative effect of lots of small things.
Thanks to all that advised and suggested Eriksson for parts, they were helpful.
* found those little fkrs in the pan with all the VB screws

[whiskychaser]

So it runs? Or is the question premature?

[ross1]

So it runs? Or is the question premature?

Yes, it's fine, just as it always was.
I figure it much more to do with the filter than I thought. You saw the debris in it, on the wrong side as the filter was either defective or distorted.
All of the filters in stock with supplier did not have O-rings attached, in spite of having what appeared be a retainer for one during shipping.
Searching my own o-ring assortment all that were large enough diameter were too thick and would have held the filter away from the VB. I found one slightly smaller diameter but correct thickness to fit into the "groove" in the VB without holding the filter from fully seating, only needed to slightly stretch it.
I didn't pay attention to or save the old one to know if this was the case but suspect maybe the last servicer faced the same scenario and installed a too thick o-ring which otherwise fit the filter but didn't it allow it properly seat so when tightened distorted the filter's case allowing fluid to be sucked past the seam rather then through the screen.
All speculation.

EDIT;
So, with the above speculation in mind I looked again at the old filter for an o-ring. It was gone but I did notice the old filter had a pick-up tube on the bottom. I believe those are for Rover applications and this may have been right against the bottom of the pan. If this were the case I could see how fluid got sucked past the seam of the filter. It would also explain the cavitating sound it was making but not why it worked fine previously.
Still a mystery to me. Just glad it's working again and won't be looking the gift horse in the mouth..

[shogun]

Yes, the o-rings - even when supplied with the aftermarket filters - are often a problem, they can cause transmission whining when air is sucked thru that space instead of thru the filter which is lower in the oil pan, here a collection of wrong o-rings we found and right ones , scroll down here http://e32b12.blogspot.jp/search/label/4HP24
ZF 4HP22 4HP24 Gearbox Filter Seal O-Ring ORIGINAL 24311218570, From: 04.07.1989 production

Edit: yes, the Rover filter has a pick up tube, some weeks ago we made a service on a Rover and found that pick up tube on the bottom of the filter, bolted on, the trans pan of the Landrover D. has a different shape. Here with the suction pipe
http://www.discovery2.co.uk/Autobox_Oil.html

[m735is]

Some of the 4hp22s have a deeper pan and use the filter with about a 1/2" 3/4" pickup (not the plastic Rover tube). Maybe some one used the wrong filter. Or, maybe you have a deeper pan and need the filter with the pick up???

I know the 92 735i tranny I bought to install in my 88 735i used the deeper pan.

[shogun]

The short neck filter for the 4HP22 was mainly used on older models like E30, E28, E24, E23, E34 only 524td (HA51/M21), 524td (HA61/M21); and E32 the M30B30 730i (GA31/M30), 730i (GA41/M30), 730i (GA71/M30), 730i (GA81/M30), 735i (GB31/M30), 735i (GB41/M30), 735i (GB51/M30), 735iiL (GB61/M30) = very first E32 up to 02/1988. All other E32 use the long neck filter.
Difference is easy to see, short neck for mainly E30, E24, E23 and E28, the long neck version used on newer E34 and my E32 750 with the 4HP24

[ross1]

Not having seen a Rover version(thank you Lord) and now seeing your photo it was definitely NOT the Rover version but apparently the correct one with the short tube?
I installed one that is flat on the bottom. Wrong one?? It's been a long time since I've serviced one of these but I don't remember seeing the pick up tube before o others.
I'll be doing another fluid service shortly so no big deal to swap it if incorrect.
My trans is PN 1043010644 can anyone here advise which filter?

[shogun]

Go by the VIN decoder, but it should be the long neck version like 24311218571. Easy to find out, long neck is 20mm, short neck is 2mm, I just checked the length on my stock parts.

[whiskychaser]

Great result