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Thread: New Z3, some questions

  1. #1
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    New Z3, some questions

    Hello everyone,

    I posted in the noobs section, but I got a new to me Z3 recently from a board member. It is a 1997 2.8 5 speed with an early build date (1/97), 88K miles. I've been voraciously reading about Z3s and many of the articles pointed to by the FAQ, but I still have some questions that I have not found the answers to while doing a search:

    1. When the car is completely cold (overnight parking), upon startup it makes a squealing sound kind of like a bad power steering noise in other cars. It lasts maybe 5-10 seconds and then goes away. Is this something that I should actively try to diagnose and fix. Or just live with it? Any ideas what it could be?

    2. When the car is fully hot and I am in city traffic stopped at a red light for an extended period of time, upon take off the engine makes a what I can describe as a roaring air sound. It quiets down as soon as I come to city cruising speed (30-30mph). When it does this, the sound reminds me of my Landrover V8 on a discovery. At first I thought this might have been the SAI as this is my first car with it, but then reading up on that it does not seem it fits the pattern for SAI. Is this the clutch fan engaging? Anything to worry about?

    3. My M52 is single Vanos. The engine runs like a top and pulls hard to the redline. Outside of the two noises described above, during normal driving there are no strange noises etc. I've read that Vanos kicks in at 4200rpm and that you can feel it. Frankly I can't feel or hear anything different at 4200rpm. The engine just pulls smoothly the redline. I'm wondering if my Vanos is working? Is there an easy way to test if it is kicking in?

    4. Car is kind of bouncy so I ordered some KYB struts/shocks along with rear shock mounts from Amazon. Then I saw some web sites that have suspension packages for cars built before 4/97 and after 4/97. What is the difference between those build dates. Amazon just had 1997 z3 fitment, but no option for month of build. I just want to make sure that I have the right parts before I take things apart

    Thanks!

    (Including pic, because all threads are useless without pics)

    2017-06-12 19.27.22.jpg

  2. #2
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    1. if its a squealing its probably a loose/bad belt. best to check your belts and replace them.

    2. cooling fan. at temp, the clutch is locked and when you rev the motor the fan spins with it and sounds like a big rig.

    3. you can't feel vanos kick in. if you don't hear any weird noises or rattles from the engine bay and don't have a check engine light, its probably working.

    4. i'm new to the z3 too but afaik the only difference is that they added the i6 in 1997. as long as the suspension is for the 6cyl car, you should be fine.
    13 Grand Cherokee Limited V8 - Daily Driver - Wife
    97 Z3 2.8 Roadster
    95 325i Sedan - Project #ebayE36
    90 BMW 535i/5 - i should probably work on this again...

  3. #3
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    Hi Eric,

    #1 might be a belt. I planned to do this, but as you know I sold you the car.
    #2 I was told by another Z3 owner that it was the cooling fan
    #3 I never thought there was an engine issue as that thing as my wife use to say "Pulls all day"
    #4 There are a few differences with the early 97s. Don't know about the shocks.

    Mike

  4. #4
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    #1 is likely a belt tensioner in my opinion.

    #3 VANOS transition is smooth (spans about 500-600rpm), you shouldn't be able to feel it. Also you'd get error codes if it didn't work.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by potxoli View Post
    ... 1997 2.8 ... (1/97), 88K miles...
    4. ... ordered some KYB struts/shocks along with rear shock mounts... some web sites that have suspension packages for cars built before 4/97 and after 4/97. What is the difference...
    4. Some packages are for lower sport suspensions, not related to years. KYB only makes struts and shocks for (our) stock suspensions. I have KYBs on my 1997.
    Last edited by Vintage42; 06-22-2017 at 12:24 PM.
    BMW MOA 696, BMW CCA 1405

  6. #6
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    1 Belt *and* tensioner.

    2 Yes, it's the fan clutch winding up. I consider any fan clutch still installed on the motor to be dangerous

    3 Honda's have VTEC that kicks in (YO!!) at xxxx RPM. This is a BMW, the transition will be smooth and unnoticed.

    4 Most aftermarket shocks are "one size fits all, sorta".


    /.randy

  7. #7
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    Thank you everyone for the replies! Good to know all is well and I will add changing belts/tensioner to my list. On the fan clutch issue I had a 2001 Landrover Discovery fan grenade on me and the blades took out half my engine bay including the radiator and a brand new MAF. So I might consider the removal of the fan and replacement with an electric one when I get to looking at the belts. There seem to be a bunch of threads on this topic.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by potxoli View Post
    ... I might consider the removal of the fan and replacement with an electric one when I get to looking at the belts...
    Don't you already have an electric fan?
    I thought the "fan delete" relied on an "auxiliary" electric fan, that at least comes on with the AC.
    The 4-cylinders like mine get by with one fan, electric.
    BMW MOA 696, BMW CCA 1405

  9. #9
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    my drift e36 (m50tu) gets by with just the a/c fan too. I can't imagine the m52 requires more than that.

    edit: a proper fan delete usually involves removing the fan, using a 318i fan switch i believe, lower temp tstat, and if you really are nervous about it, a higher flowing water pump. I did all of the above on my drift car due to the nature of the sport, but on a weekend warrior like the Z3 (even daily driver status) i dont think the water pump is necessary.
    Last edited by JesterMX6; 06-22-2017 at 06:48 PM.
    13 Grand Cherokee Limited V8 - Daily Driver - Wife
    97 Z3 2.8 Roadster
    95 325i Sedan - Project #ebayE36
    90 BMW 535i/5 - i should probably work on this again...

  10. #10
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    Hi, sorry for the confusion, but my comments were about the methodology the guys in the land rover forum came up with for a fan delete: There is an auxiliary fan on the discovery in front of the radiator. When removing the clutch driven fan, they would buy a second electric fan (some ford part from a mustang if I recall), mount it behind the radiator and then power that fan with a thermostat. So essentially it was doing the same exact work the belt driven fan was doing with the clutch

    I am not suggesting this is what to do in a Z3 as I have absolutely no idea, but this is what LR mechanics recommended for discovery's.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by potxoli View Post
    ... buy a second electric fan... mount it behind the radiator and then power that fan with a thermostat... I am not suggesting this is what to do in a Z3 as I have absolutely no idea...
    You already have one electric fan, mounted behind your radiator.
    Last edited by Vintage42; 06-22-2017 at 09:19 PM.
    BMW MOA 696, BMW CCA 1405

  12. #12
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    Fan delete--it's a touchy subject and not without controversy and disagreement. I think we all agree that the mechanical fan is a time bomb waiting to go off and should be removed. What to do after that is up to you--do the research and ask questions. The options after removing the mechanical fan range from "close the hood" to "replace/re-engineer the entire cooling system." I went with the latter and am happy--others go with the former and are equally happy--though perhaps not as sanguine.

    At 88K it may be a little early to replace the entire cooling system, but up around 100K it's not a bad preventative maintenance idea . Also, if your fan belt is squealing--or maybe your air compressor belt--or maybe an idler or tensioner pulley--it might be time to do the whole job now as you're getting into parts of it anyways.

    One thing before yanking the mechanical fan is to confirm that your auxiliary fan is working properly. Others should chime in on the proper auxiliary fan function for your year and engine, as I'm not familiar with the 2.8, but I believe that it should come on in low speed whenever the air conditioning is engaged, or when the coolant rises to a certain temperature, and kick into high speed if the coolant rises to a certain temperature above that, but I don't know the trigger temps, although I'm guessing that low speed is around 190 degrees and high is around 210 or so. I believe that the temperature sensor is located in the radiator tank on the passenger's side about a third way down--at least it is on my S52.

  13. #13
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    Yes, make sure brown wire is in the middle between other 2 wires of your aux fan temp switch on side of the radiator - some cars came with incorrect wiring from factory, not easy to notice until it is too late.

    About #1, you are not talking about fuel pump adjusting the fuel pressure, right?

  14. #14
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    New Z3, some questions

    Quote Originally Posted by 328 Power 04 View Post
    #1 is likely a belt tensioner in my opinion.
    This is most likely culprit. In my case moisture caused the needle bearings in the pivot of the spring/hydraulic tensioner to seize. Startup forces caused the tensioner to compress but then tensioner could not expand to tension the belt.

    Don't know if you actually have a spring tensioner or the compact spring/hydraulic tensioner.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by bluptgm3; 06-24-2017 at 06:31 PM.

  15. #15
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    Thank you. For the belt tensioner, do I simply buy a new part? Is it part #6 (11281748131) on this realoem diagram? http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_6176

    Also, if I get a lower temperature fan switch for the fan delete, does swaping it out in the radiator drain part of the system or is it purely external?

  16. #16
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    No 1 might also be your secondary air pump

  17. #17
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    I have a squeal that is intermittent, and sounds like a belt. I first tried some belt dressing on the belt, to no avail.

    Today I started taking things apart. Pulled the Mechanical fan out first. Could not remove the shroud as I have a cooling system hose running through the shroud. I was able to loosen it enough to wiggle the fan out. Some trial and error to figure out how to get the hydraulic tensioners backed off to get the belts off.

    I pulled the 3 pulleys, and on mine (3.2L M), the deflection pulley is making a noise when I spin it. That is #15 in the RealOEM diagram you referenced. The other 2 pulleys (#6 in this diagram and the same one on the A/C belt) seem OK. I may replace them anyway (80K miles and I have no idea what maintenance the PO's did). I don't really want to dig into this again soon. Although now that have done it once, it won't be so bad the next time.

    Will replace some or all or all of the pulleys, replace the 2 belts, and put her back together and expect this will solve my issue.

    On the the air rush sound, I believe it is the Mechanical fan. Make a lot of wind roar when winding the engine up. I had mine off today, and ran the car around the block...interesting to hear how quiet it is without the Mechanical fan.

    I am undecided about the fan delete. Still reading about options.


    Good luck, nice looking Z.

    Greg
    Tally Ho


    http://wcwebs.net/johnson
    1988 O'Day 322 sailboat - (unlimited mpg)

    2000 BMW Z3 M Roadster (25 mpg - but who cares)

    2019 Subaru Outback
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  18. #18
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    Thanks for the update Tally Ho. I will likely tackle this project closer to end of summer, but I'm also seriously leaning towards a fan delete.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bingley View Post
    Fan delete--it's a touchy subject and not without controversy and disagreement. I think we all agree that the mechanical fan is a time bomb waiting to go off and should be removed. What to do after that is up to you--do the research and ask questions. The options after removing the mechanical fan range from "close the hood" to "replace/re-engineer the entire cooling system." I went with the latter and am happy--others go with the former and are equally happy--though perhaps not as sanguine.

    At 88K it may be a little early to replace the entire cooling system, but up around 100K it's not a bad preventative maintenance idea . Also, if your fan belt is squealing--or maybe your air compressor belt--or maybe an idler or tensioner pulley--it might be time to do the whole job now as you're getting into parts of it anyways.

    One thing before yanking the mechanical fan is to confirm that your auxiliary fan is working properly. Others should chime in on the proper auxiliary fan function for your year and engine, as I'm not familiar with the 2.8, but I believe that it should come on in low speed whenever the air conditioning is engaged, or when the coolant rises to a certain temperature, and kick into high speed if the coolant rises to a certain temperature above that, but I don't know the trigger temps, although I'm guessing that low speed is around 190 degrees and high is around 210 or so. I believe that the temperature sensor is located in the radiator tank on the passenger's side about a third way down--at least it is on my S52.
    I deleted my fan with no other mods except for the stewart warner water pump. In the heat of summer in Georgia, the water temp, as monitored by an OBDII device, wouild climb to levels with which I was uncomfortable. I put the fan back on. Instead of a fan delete and complex electric fan to replace it, why not just by a new fan and clutch every 5 to 10 years prophylactically? I guess I'm a keep-it-simple-stupid kind of guy.

  20. #20
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    What temps were you reaching?
    I have noticed my Z3M can run hotter than my E36, probably having to do with the reduced airflow into the front area.
    By choice I do fan delete, and I add a Spal puller.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  21. #21
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    I have a fan delete on my S52. I am not sure if I am happy with it. Last year ater a long road trip and some mildly spirited driving (stewart pump, lower temp switch and thermostat, all new oem cooling components otherwise, bmw coolant) my temps hit 3/4 on the coolant gauge. Shut it down and was able to bleed it and refill and get home no problem, but I am not sure if this happened because of the dry air where I live or just the extreme heat. I know some proponents of the fan delete live in hot climates 90-low 100's. It was 122 here yesterday and that might mean the difference between needing an electric puller fan and not. I will probably be putting an electric puller on mine when I install my oil cooler.

    I even considered jigging up my windshield washer to spray on the radiator... It gets HOT here!

  22. #22
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    As an update, I finished my belt and pulley replacement.

    All in all not too bad, but getting the belts on correctly (single-handed) tested my patience.

    I could not get the rollers for the 2 hydraulic tensioners at my local parts store, but was able to get the "off-set" deflection pulley that attaches next to the alternator. That is the one on mine that was squealing. It nice to drive her today with out the incessant squeal.

    I kept my Mechanical fan. I inspected it, and will probably replace it at 100k miles or so. If I remove it, I think I would install an electric one.
    Tally Ho


    http://wcwebs.net/johnson
    1988 O'Day 322 sailboat - (unlimited mpg)

    2000 BMW Z3 M Roadster (25 mpg - but who cares)

    2019 Subaru Outback
    (30+ MPG)

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 328 Power 04 View Post
    What temps were you reaching?
    I have noticed my Z3M can run hotter than my E36, probably having to do with the reduced airflow into the front area.
    By choice I do fan delete, and I add a Spal puller.
    It has been a long time and I didn't write down the numbers, but if memory serves, coolant temps approached 230 F and oil temps 250 F at the end of my 40 mile commute which is mostly highway speed driving. Outside temps were around 100 F. I was running AC.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  24. #24
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    As a follow up to my original post in case it is helpful, I got around to changing both belts and the two belt tensioner pulleys this weekend. The squeal at startup is gone. Job was not as easy as the videos might make you think. I put the car on ramps and it was good to be able to get access both above and below to get the belts on properly.

  25. #25
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    Just so Im clear, the stock fan on my Z3 is yet another thing to.worry about?

    Is there any singular part on this car that is reliable?

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