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Thread: Rebuilding my M10

  1. #26
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    I did not realize the engine is installed. You can try using the |T0 (tdc) mark on the flywheel. It is more accurate for TDC, but you may find that it's it's very difficult to do, compared to using the pointer for TDC. If you use the |T0 method for TDC, I suggest installing the belt and turning the engine by the alternator pulley so it turns the engine very slowly. The engine will turn much easier with the spark plugs removed. If you have a helper, it may be less frustrating. *Do not confuse the |T0 mark with the "Z| ball" mark.
    Tbd

  2. #27
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    I partially tightened the crank pulley and turned the engine through a couple revolutions and it looks like when the cam is directly at TDC, the crank pulley is slightly off the TDC pointer (~1/8") and the |T0 mark on the flywheel is slightly off the center of the view hole by ~1/8". That's less than a chain link length so I think I'm good.

    I bled the chain tensioner exactly as described and it works excellently. I ordered a new tensioner spring that was about 0.5 to 1" longer than the original one and didn't have the tapered end but it works very well, especially now it's lubed. The guide side of the chain has become much more taught now that I revolved the engine around a couple times with the crank pulley. It gives slightly under finger pressure but very little.

    I got the oil pan on (and what a PITA it was!). Some of those bolts are impossible to get to without a rube goldberg amound of socket extensions and hot yoga poses. I put a bit of RTV on the seam between the block and the timing cover and put on a new pan gasket. I torqued all the bolts with ~6ft-lbs of force.

    Oil pan went on with steering rack "sandwich" taken out of position. I reassembled the steering rack and tightened everything super tight by hand. I didn't bother with a torque setting on that. Putting the steering rack "sandwich" back into position is easy if you loosen the back bolts and use a plastic deadblow and long screwdriver to knock and wedge it into place. I've done it by myself now twice and neither time took me more than a few minutes. I admit it was way harder the first time I did it when I had fitted brand new steering rack bushings. The new rubber is stiff. Now they're about 6 months to a year old so they're broken in and easier to manipulate.

    I'm excited to try a new setting for my alternator. A while ago I switched to the ratcheting alternator bracket--some of you may know what I'm talking about--and it worked okay but the alternator basically "bottomed out" at the far edge of the ratcheting system and my belts often became loose and needed readjusting. I had it mounted to the alternator bracket by the middle hole on the ratcheting bar. Now I've moved it over to the far left hole, which gives me a lot more room to adjust the alternator pulley tightness. I couldn't figure out before why I couldn't get it to work better but I realized this time around that my stupid carbon filter was in the way. So I loosened the carbon filter and moved it forward about 1.5", which puts it in the middle of its own bracket (better anyway), and allows room for the alternator to move up and down freely. So that's a plus.

    I spent a ton of time reinstalling the vertical bracket arm that attaches to the underside of the intake manifold. You know, the one with the "microswitch" attached to it. The bottom bolt hole on that thing is threaded all the way through! WHY. Oh my god, it was a PITA getting that bolt out. That's one of the most inconveniently located bolts ever.

    I also took out and put thread sealer on the top exhaust manifold studs and reinstalled them. So that's taken care of now.

    Anyway, I'm incredibly close now. I've worked out that I have 18 steps left (questions included):

    1. Bolt the exhaust manifold to the exhaust pipe. (Three bolts)
    2. Reattach fuel injection lines to distributor: (4) injector lines on top, (2) WUR lines, (1) cold start valve line. The two main lines and that line attached to the lean/rich sensor are already attached. (What is torque spec on those banjo bolts?) (Anybody got a pic so I can be sure of what I'm doing?)
    3. Reinstall fan (4) bolts, (2) lock strips
    4. One outstanding AC bracket bolt.
    5. Reinstall Radiator and new coolant temp switch and reattach coolant hoses.
    6. Belts (main and AC)
    7. Crank Pulley (Torque is extremely high ~101ft-lbs., how do you do this without turning the engine?)
    8. Heat shield that attaches at one point to steering rack. (Also, just an aside, does anyone know where I can get an exhaust manifold heat shield? My car doesn't have one)
    9. Adjust valve lash (~0.008")
    10. Put Assembly lube on cam lobes.
    11. Adjust timing (7:00 TDC for dizzy, shiny silver BB in trans view hole @2200rpm, vacuum advance disconnected)
    12. Attach dizzy ground wires (Where do these attach--anyone got a picture?)
    13. Bolt on Alternator and main chassis ground strap.
    14. Add coolant (BMW Blue--already got it off Amazon)
    15. Add Oil and filter. I'm using Wally-world V-tech 10W-30 traditional oil for first few hundred miles to seat rings.
    16. Reattach Throttle body vacuum lines per awesome legend provided above.
    17. Install Air slide valve (I have a german bosch that presumably works that I was using previously. I'm going to use a "new" to me used French bosch provided by someone on the forum about a year ago that I've had shelved for a while.
    18. Reinstall O2 sensor.

    Thanks. I'll post a first start vid Saturday if I can get all this done.

    Edit: Forgot Sparks! 19.

    Edit: I did have one more concern. My upper timing cover is slightly higher than the head by less than a 16th of an inch. I tried removing it and torquing it down more in the front but it didn't work. Taking it off also ripped a tad off the head gasket there where it attaches because of the RTV ripping away. Am I going to be good here? Should I add more RTV to the valve cover gasket to make sure nothing seeps out there? I figure the valve cover gasket is pretty thick so it may just fill that in. Any experience with this?
    Last edited by Hagbard; 06-23-2017 at 03:19 PM.
    1982 320i E21 Coupe, Manual, Cashmere Metallic, 162K+ miles (Daily Driver)
    1997 318i E36 Sedan, Manual, Black, 388K+ miles (RIP)

  3. #28
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    Sounds like you have been making real good progress. Below are a couple of comments tied to your list of remaining tasks.

    2. Here is a pic of the fuel line arrangement:



    Red circles - upper line on WUR to port on fuel dist.

    Green circles - lower line on WUR to port on fuel dist (top/front of fuel dist - I believe this is the control pressure line = epmedia is the expert on K-jet so he can comment if wrong)

    Dark blue circle - cold start injector

    Cyan circle - fuel return line

    Pink circle - fuel supply line

    I have always tightened the banjo bolts by feel so I do not know a torque spec. You can feel when the copper gasket ring starts to crush and then just a bit tighter.


    7. I will share what I have done to tighten the crank pulley nut with the engine and transmission still in the car.

    With car on the ground, place transmission into 5th gear (clutch engaged/no foot on pedal), have a helper push on hard on the brakes and then torque the bolt. This will keep the engine from rotating and allow full torque. I have also done this while the car is on jack stands but you must be *very* sure everything is stable...101ft-lb does not seem like a lot but remember this is the same value as the engine produces at torque peak!

    If the transmission is out of the car you can use various methods to lock the flywheel; a proper flywheel locking tool, large blade screwdriver wedged in a flywheel tooth, build a tool from an old flywheel spacer and square tubing and bolt to crank, etc.


    12. Distributor ground wire layout:




    The front upper cover may be OK with the extra height but it might also cause the VC gasket to leak - hard to judge without seeing it in person.

    I know you are past this point now, but I had my machine shop bolt up the front cover when they machined the head surface so it would be level. I did the same with the lower cover but the shop (different shop than the head) forgot to bolt it up when machining the block surface. This is a far worse scenario since it interferes with the sealing of multiple gaskets. It was only about 2mm and I was able to correct the issue like this:



    I used a piece of 180 grit sandpaper folded tightly over a piece of angle and secured it all in a vice. The level surface allowed me to skim off the extra material and get a perfect fit. You should be able to do the same to your upper cover if needed.

    Don't worry about a small torn spot on the head gasket in the sealing area of the timing cover. A little bit of gasket maker/sealer should be able to keep that area from leaking.


    Hope this all helps. I am sure others will share their tricks to tackle these issues too - lots of experience on this forum.


    MJ


    Quote Originally Posted by Hagbard View Post
    Anyway, I'm incredibly close now. I've worked out that I have 18 steps left (questions included):

    2. Reattach fuel injection lines to distributor: (4) injector lines on top, (2) WUR lines, (1) cold start valve line. The two main lines and that line attached to the lean/rich sensor are already attached. (What is torque spec on those banjo bolts?) (Anybody got a pic so I can be sure of what I'm doing?)
    7. Crank Pulley (Torque is extremely high ~101ft-lbs., how do you do this without turning the engine?)
    12. Attach dizzy ground wires (Where do these attach--anyone got a picture?)


    Edit: I did have one more concern. My upper timing cover is slightly higher than the head by less than a 16th of an inch. I tried removing it and torquing it down more in the front but it didn't work. Taking it off also ripped a tad off the head gasket there where it attaches because of the RTV ripping away. Am I going to be good here? Should I add more RTV to the valve cover gasket to make sure nothing seeps out there? I figure the valve cover gasket is pretty thick so it may just fill that in. Any experience with this?
    Last edited by mjweimer; 06-23-2017 at 05:23 PM. Reason: clarity

  4. #29
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    pretty good progress so far

  5. #30
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    A couple more quick items you may already be aware of but I will mention if not...

    - Depending on what procedure you followed for the head bolt torque you may need to perform the 3rd torque spec once the engine is fully brought up to temperature.

    I used the 3 step method outlined in Service Bulletin 11 19 85

    Step 1: 60Nm
    *Wait 15 minutes*
    Step 2: 33 degrees
    *Bring engine to operating temperature for 25min*
    Step 3: 25 degrees

    It says Step 3 can be done regardless of engine temp but I prefer not to pull parts off of a hot engine.

    If you used an alternative torque spec then ignore the above.

    - Make yourself a reminder to check the valve clearances after you have run the engine for several hundred miles. The valves will get slightly tighter as they break-in to the freshly cut seats.

    MJ

  6. #31
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    How do I prime fuel system to start after all this?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hagbard View Post
    How do I prime fuel system to start after all this?
    You should prime the engine oil first. You do this with the fuel pump fuse and spark plugs removed. Several 4 second cranks of the starter motor will hopefully make the oil light go out.

    Then put the plugs and fuse back in, give the starter motor a few blips a few seconds apart. This should prime the fuel system sufficiently.

    *charge the battery real good if you have to, especially for priming the engine oil.
    Tbd

  8. #33
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    Not starting in TDC. Oil light out. Cranked car with fuel lines unplugged to make sure fuel was squirting. Got very little fill out. But it did come out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Pos batt terminal smoking

    - - - Updated - - -

    Getting a couple of sputters here and there, but not turning over at all.
    Last edited by Hagbard; 06-26-2017 at 10:50 AM.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hagbard View Post
    Not starting in TDC. Oil light out. Great car with you and George and Lyons unplugged to make sure fuel was squirting. Got very little fill out. But it did come out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Pos batt terminal smoking
    Did some wires get mixed up? Can you post a pic of the wires to the battery, grounds, alternator and starter motor?
    Tbd

  10. #35
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    It's possible that I miswired my alternator. I'm going to check on that in the next hour.

    If not, what else can I check and do? I think my timing and ignition wires are good.

    I set the dizzy with the vacuum advance pointed toward the passenger side of the car and the TDC mark at approximately 7:00. Then I pointed the dizzy rotor toward the mark and with the crank pulley set at TDC, I tried to start it and got nowhere. It just cranked and cranked with a couple small sputters here and there.

    Any advice is greatly appreciated. This is my only car. My fiance is losing patience with me, my coworker whose driveway I'm using as a work area is losing patience. I'm renting a car. I need to get the old girl moving again!

    Thanks all.
    1982 320i E21 Coupe, Manual, Cashmere Metallic, 162K+ miles (Daily Driver)
    1997 318i E36 Sedan, Manual, Black, 388K+ miles (RIP)

  11. #36
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    Hagbard - Have you checked for spark and fuel?


    I marked my distributor at TDC before removal so I could get it back close to the right timing. Here is a pic if it helps:



    The rotor is pointing to just past the 6 o'clock position and the distributor is rotated to ~7 o'clock. This is how my car was timed prior to the rebuild. Also remember that the distributor rotates counterclockwise in the late E21's which can cause confusion when hooking up the wires and lead to a non or poor running engine.


    Is your fuel pump running with the key on/cranking? You might have air in the system from having the system open. You can jumper the fuel pump relay to make you have fuel flow - info is located in the FAQ:

    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...7#post15904137

    There are also threads on checking for fuel flow at the injectors.


    MJ

  12. #37
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    I've been thinking about the smoking POS battery cable. Assuming all the wire connections are correct and if the smoke is coming from just an end of the cable; that smoking can be caused from a dirty/bad connection while turning the starter motor. I've seen this several times on various cars.

    Regarding the ignition timing, hope this helps:

    click to enlarge
    dist.jpg
    Tbd

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by epmedia View Post
    I've been thinking about the smoking POS battery cable. Assuming all the wire connections are correct and if the smoke is coming from just an end of the cable; that smoking can be caused from a dirty/bad connection while turning the starter motor. I've seen this several times on various cars.

    Regarding the ignition timing, hope this helps:

    click to enlarge
    dist.jpg
    Turns out you were right. My buddy actually figured it out though before I read your post. My crappy battery terminals were both shot. My negative terminal was broken and the positive was filled with trash. I replaced them with brass ones from Autozone. The positive terminal is actually fatter (larger diameter) than the neg terminal. I'll have to refit it soon, but that's a low priority. I also broke off one of the exhaust manifold studs on the exhaust side. I didn't have any bmw bolts so I used some honda ones I had on hand. They were M10 brass lock nuts but that stud broke off so now I only have two bolts on there and they are uncomfortably tight. I need to remove the manifold and replace that stud and put on some new bolts. That's low priority too, although higher than the battery terminal.

    I also broke a terminal off the temperature switch (12631279721). So I need to get a new one before it gets cold again.

    I got super fastidious about setting the dizzy in TDC--turns out I was kind of lazy on Saturday with it and that's why it didn't start. I also went back and forth arguing with my buddy over the dizzy and TDC. He was reading about the early model ignition distributors and I had to explain that the later North American models spin counter clockwise, etc. He tried to reverse the ignition wire order and we got into an argument. Anyway, it started right up and runs great.

    I had to button up a couple of coolant leaks here and there but it seems good now. It's running a bit warm for my taste--warmer than it was running before all this. My guess is that my coolant mix is a bit off. Saturday I had to work backwards for a couple hours because there was a bad coolant leak around the water pump. I was dumb and had put in my bmw coolant instead of just water at first and we had to drain it--lost a lot--and then put it back in. The mix is all off now. I need to change the coolant so I can get it right. Although, I think running water is okay in summer isn't it? I don't know, you guys can tell me what you think. Could I have an air bubble in the coolant system? Is there a bleeding procedure?

    During that whole water pump leak fiasco I also broke a pump securing bolt off in the timing cover so that was a panic moment but once I got it all apart the broken bolt piece actually just came out by hand, so that was a relief.

    My idle is a bit high too. I need to fiddle with the screw to get it right at or just under 1000rpm.

    No leaks and running good. And actually, it seems that the cold start problem I've had for ages--and the reason the previous owner had a mechanic wire a direct control button for the cold start valve, is gone. It starts right up now, even cold. So I guess add "bad valve stem seals" to the list of things that can cause a bad cold start.

    Thanks everyone for your help. I couldn't have done all this without you guys.
    Last edited by Hagbard; 06-26-2017 at 09:49 AM.
    1982 320i E21 Coupe, Manual, Cashmere Metallic, 162K+ miles (Daily Driver)
    1997 318i E36 Sedan, Manual, Black, 388K+ miles (RIP)

  14. #39
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    By the way, if any of you want to see more pics of my rebuild, I put most of them on my Instagram feed: royaljellyvikingwolf. I tagged them all with #bmw #320i #e21 #e21legion.
    1982 320i E21 Coupe, Manual, Cashmere Metallic, 162K+ miles (Daily Driver)
    1997 318i E36 Sedan, Manual, Black, 388K+ miles (RIP)

  15. #40
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    Anyway, it started right up and runs great.
    Great news!


    running water is okay in summer isn't it?
    No don't use plain water because of the aluminum head and iron block causes electrolysis corrosion. BMW mechanic long ago told me always have a good antifreeze and water mix to prevent damage to the head.

    The Chilton Shop Manual says use 50/50 mix of ethylene glycol antifreeze and water, or at a minimum of 35% antifreeze and water.
    Last edited by okieflats; 06-26-2017 at 02:24 PM.

  16. #41
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    Glad to hear that you got it running and performing better than before the rebuild.


    MJ

  17. #42
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    Right on, Hagbard. And yes, use the proper coolant mix and if you have to dilute the mix, only use distilled water. Any water other than distilled, will start corroding things really quick. Most grocery stores have distilled water for less than a buck/gallon.
    Last edited by epmedia; 06-26-2017 at 05:45 PM.
    Tbd

  18. #43
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    Congrats on getting it running again!

  19. #44
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    So the car is running okay. I'm super happy with how it accelerates and how it starts right up now. Maybe I fixed a vacuum leak I had or maybe the new valve stem seals keep everything tight--whatever it is, it starts right up. (I'm guessing the vacuum leak being fixed is the answer. My old, rubber intake boot had several cracks in it.)

    Anyway, I'm still having a few issues. For one, I'm getting a bit of misfiring/farty running, and it stalls when I drop the RPMs too fast (for instance, accelerating--nothing extreme--up to a stop light and then dropping to neutral, it will stall). So I have a couple questions:

    1. When doing the timing, does the TDC mark on the distributor absolutely have to be at ~7:00 when looking at the engine from the passenger side? I think the most important thing is for the rotor to be aligned with the TDC mark. Everything else is just preference, right? I set the timing with a light (and am planning to redo it from TDC this afternoon anyway) but I'm just curious about this. It seems like the distributor could technically be positioned anywhere as long as the TDC compression stroke falls on ignition wire one. I mean, it runs pretty well at the moment and, I think, only needs minor adjustment. Currently my vacuum advance is slightly positioned over the valve cover, which I don't like. Like I said, I'm going to do it super proper this evening and reset everything from TDC, crank and all, and position the dizzy with the TDC mark at 7:00.

    2. Could misfiring/farty running and stalling be due to an incorrect air/fuel mix? Like I said, I changed every gasket and got rid of a couple vacuum leaks in the intake boot between the intake manifold and air meter. Could my car be running rich or lean? How do I tell? I have searched the forum but I didn't find a good procedure for setting the air/fuel mix accurately. I'm reading about it in the haynes manual today but any good advice would be great. I have a 3mm hex head and know how to adjust it, I just want to do it as accurately as possible.

    3. I sandblasted my exhaust manifold and I think it made the threads on the exhaust pipe studs rougher than normal. I should've chased the threads with a die. But I didn't and one of them broke off. I put anti-seize on two of the threads (I thought I'd put it on all three) but the one that hadn't been anti-seized broke off. So now I have a bit of an exhaust leak and it's louder than it should be. Could this be contributing to the farty running conditions?

    What do you guys think? Bad timing? Bad air/fuel? Exhaust leak at manifold? All three?

    Thanks for the input.
    Last edited by Hagbard; 06-29-2017 at 09:31 AM.
    1982 320i E21 Coupe, Manual, Cashmere Metallic, 162K+ miles (Daily Driver)
    1997 318i E36 Sedan, Manual, Black, 388K+ miles (RIP)

  20. #45
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    Update: I set the timing with the crank pulley mark lined up with the pointer and the ignition distributor set with the TDC mark at 7:00 and the rotor aligned with it. I had a buddy rev to 2200 RPM with the vacuum advance unhooked and plugged. I set the distributor when I saw the ball bearing in the center of the view hole at 2200 RPM.

    I'm still getting weirdness. Acceleration feels sluggish and it was still stalling sporadically after giving it gas and then letting the revs fall. I adjusted the air/fuel mix screw slightly but my tool, while long, runs into the intake manifold when I try to twist it. I need to chop the handle of it off so I can use it more accurately.

    I'm running old spark plugs because the ones I bought for my rebuild didn't have the ability to untwist the end caps to expose the screw head like our cars need. I was miffed about that because I ordered those sparks from RockAuto. Pain in my ass.

    Anyway, old sparks and there is also a slight exhaust leak where the manifold meets the exhaust pipe in the engine bay. Not sure if that could contribute to running problems other than making the car a tad louder.

    I'm at a loss. I don't know what to do now. The car runs worse after the rebuild than it did before. It's awfully depressing.
    1982 320i E21 Coupe, Manual, Cashmere Metallic, 162K+ miles (Daily Driver)
    1997 318i E36 Sedan, Manual, Black, 388K+ miles (RIP)

  21. #46
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    You have a Haynes? There's a picture that shows the observation window and the Z ball. The window has a flat on one side, it's shaped like a D. The center of the ball, on the flat is actually what you aim for. If you aimed for the middle of the D for the ball, that's not much off, maybe less than one degree.

    Make sure the centrifugal advance is not sticky and put a couple drops of engine oil under the rotor, under the felt pad (if pad is still there). Also make sure the vacuum advance works properly and holds a vacuum.

    You can try setting the timing at 2100 rpms instead of 2200. This will yield more ignition advance which is 'typically' a good thing for slightly better performance and fuel mileage. Don't advance the timing too far or you'll get pinging from pre-ignition (not good).
    Tbd

  22. #47
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    Yes, I have two Hayne's. One for the garage and one for the bedside.

    I am shifting away from thinking this is the timing and moving to ignition. My coil leaked a yellow, ear-wax-like substance out of it and I was using old sparks. I replaced the sparks and it seemed to make the misfiring better. I'm going to replace the coil too and hopefully that'll nip this in the bud.

    NEW PROBLEM:

    The entire passenger side running lights are no longer working. Also the "overhead" speedo lights are out and my backup/reverse lights no longer work. The joy is gone.

    Any ideas? I've checked fuses. None look to be out, although I guess I need to test continuity. I may have accidentally grounded out some jumper cables on the chassis while I was trying to get the car started. Could I have shorted something? Any ideas what? I've looked at the schematic and I don't see anything obvious.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Hagbard; 06-30-2017 at 01:49 PM.
    1982 320i E21 Coupe, Manual, Cashmere Metallic, 162K+ miles (Daily Driver)
    1997 318i E36 Sedan, Manual, Black, 388K+ miles (RIP)

  23. #48
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    Drove home from work today, misfiring the entire time. Got near home and car started stalling. Had to restart at every light. Barely made it home. Car now undriveable. Please help. No ideas here.

    I've set the timing. I've replaced the sparks. I've got a new coil on the way because my current one leaked yellow waxy fluid out it, but it ran with that before I rebuilt the engine.
    1982 320i E21 Coupe, Manual, Cashmere Metallic, 162K+ miles (Daily Driver)
    1997 318i E36 Sedan, Manual, Black, 388K+ miles (RIP)

  24. #49
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    the running lights have a separate fuse for each side of the car. if the fuse is not blown then you just need to give it a spin, break the oxidation.
    Tom D

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  25. #50
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    What color of spark are you getting? And it might sound dumb, but your friend didn't put the spark plug wires going the wrong direction without you knowing, did he? It'll run backward, just poorly. My money would be on the ignition coil being bad just because of the symptoms it's showing or maybe something in the distributor. Your timing procedure sounds correct. If that comes up clean, run a smoke test to be sure there are no leaks.
    -John

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