Experienced diy body kit'ers!

[spyderg0d]

I've started doing a diy kit I plan on making into a pandem style look. I have a flare set attached to be a inner liner and il be building off of that. First question is about how much spray foam usually takes to cover space? I'm guessing volume is what I'm looking for. Secondly, anyone ever leave the foam on, and just fiberglass over the foam and then permanently attache all of it? Making the mold seems needless if I can just make it on the car. .. Anyone explain?

[joey79]

[spyderg0d]

thanks!

[1215]

+1. the hell you tryin to do???

Are you trying to make your own flares? I googled pandem and it looked like a ricer widebody kit. can you just buy a kit? do you have any photos of a pandem e36? You are better off building your moulds off the car and then attaching the parts/panels second. You are also not going to be happy if you do wet layups (lay wet glass over your mould or glass). it'll be heavy, prone to cracking and expensive. You are much better off making identical moulds, building your parts and then bolting them to the car. When you build them vacuum bag them. MisterKiwi lives up on that north island and loves epoxy. There are some pretty serious glueheads up in those parts that I'd trust my life with --maybe he knows one of them or can help?? Also use epoxy resin, not polyester.

In all seriousness, not really sure what you are trying to do but happy to chat on/offline (PM me if you want). I know a bit about composites. Also, had a couple widebody e21's & e30's back in the day so I can at least tell you what sucked about them and where they constantly broke or what I would improve.

[spyderg0d]

The rocket bunny store says $1,600 per fender pair. So over $3,000 for four fenders in not acceptable.
I am trying to diy flares. I guess what's the diff btwn useing the foam, laying the fiberglass, pulling making the part vs just laying the fiberglass on the foam and then finishing that? It's either fiberglass flare or fiberglass flare right? I could just disolve the foam or cut it out afterwards. I guess the explanations online aren't very begginer friendly.

[1215]

Hope this doesn't come across too dick-ish because I'm not trying to be. I can tell you from experience, just save up and buy them. Don't try it. It'll cost more money in the end, take way longer and won't come out as nice.
The fiberglass paneled cars I had (e21 & e30) were cool but they cracked like crazy. I feel like we spent more time repairing the cracks than we did working on the cars or driving them. Is that what you want?

So rule #1 is take your time and your budget and double it. So what is your guestimate cost to build these things? Double it, round up, and you are close.

Hard stuff:
How the hell are you going to do it? (meaning what design, pattern, materials, etc.)
When you say "foam" do you mean spray foam? Have you ever worked with that? It's a mess. A disaster, it drips, runs, hard to cut & shape... and not cheap.
Have you ever worked with any kind of fiberglass (or other glass/composite) before?
What tools do you own? Do you have a DA (random orbital sander)?
Have you ever used gelcoat?
Do you LOVE body work (sanding & fairing)?
The foam doesn't just "dissolve". The shitty foam does, the foam that lets gravity take over and it runs & drips and falls and has giant bubbles & holes in it... but the good foams don't dissolve like you'd think with acetone or other.
Where are you going to buy your materials?
What weight cloth (or mat) are you going to use?
Do you have any consumables: rollers, brushes, mask, syringes, masking paper, mould release wax, scrapers, paint pots, sand paper (resin/mekp)
Do you have a work area and tools: sanders, grinders, long board, cutoff wheel, vacuum system, heat, mask & respirator,
You are going to need a decent amount of bondo/filler. You just are. Don't say you aren't, you just are. I suppose you could use thick resin but that's really heavy.
Do you care about weight? Enough to go Epoxy resin vs. polyester and/or to vacuum bag the setup? (that'll bump it all up in the $5k range)

If you are going to do spray foam I suppose you could do something like weld a couple screws or nails to the metal on the car and then mask the rest (to give the foam something to stick to). Then spray on the foam, shape it, mask it (or goop it with mould release wax) and then lay glass over that --then peel the fenders off the foam, remove the foam, do the detail/finish work on the panels and then rivet them onto the car. You don't really want to fiberglass directly to the body. It will crack and delaminate.

Also, the thing about polyester resins vs. epoxy resins (when layering or bonding it to itself) is that polyester (bondo is a poly resin derivative) has dual bonding properties (mechanical & chemical) whereas epoxy is chemical only. Sortof like welding - when you weld the metal fuses into the panel and becomes part of the panel vs. rivets.

Polyester resins can only achieve a chemical bond with itself when it is not yet cured. meaning as you layer your fiberglass (you can control it but poly can kick quick like bondo) you need to have the second layer ready to apply before the first layer kicks off to obtain a chemical bond. If you lay polyester resin on top of dry poly resin the bond will be mechanical (like tape) vs. chemical (like welding) which can cause delamination, panel splitting, bubbles, etc.

Epoxy on the other hand (more than 2x expensive) will chemically bond to itself whether wet or dry.

I could go on & on but I'm just procrastinating installing the windshield wiper linkage and aligning the hood on the devil e36.

Do your research. Happy to answer questions. best thing you could do is find a template set of panels and take them to a shop that can copy them. They will have chop guns, materials at cost, experience, etc. and be able to do it on the cheap. There are a couple decent boat builders/repair shops up your way that could do it for you. I'd focus on finding a template or saving your pennies.

[spyderg0d]

I'm thinking il just small globs of bondo on the fenders. Spray foam the area which will stick to the bondo. I have done alot of body work in my past just did shaved door kit last week. So I figure with my hid pics I downloaded I can draw lines on the car. Shape the foam so it undersized by a however thick I'm going with the glass. Bondo or just spray paint the foam. Lay my glass going past the intended end areas. Then cut the extra off and rivet the edges holding it all on. The foam and the glass. Then I just glass the edges closed and finish and paint... I figure foam $70. Spray paint $15. Fiberglass and materials $175. Bondo $40 max for 2 gallons. Paint around $100 for rattle matchers. Misc maybe $50 rivets and sand paper and brushes and what not.

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From what I read the expanding spray foam is not heavy at all. I figure if anything it add some strength to the outer fiberglass. And if I leave the foam in, if it cracks or someone bitches my car, itl leave a fair place for repair. But if it proves to be too heavy. I could always cut a section out of the last part of a flare and cut all the foam out.. I'm not really looking for ease as I know I'm a first timer. I'm looking for first if it works, secondly functionality. But price is before any of that.

[MisterM52]

SUPERCHARGER!!

Were is the Supercharger on the vert..That will flare it all up..

[spyderg0d]

It's coming!!! Jesus!! All in due time! I'm very behind schedule! I have many things to learn and do before I drop in the m54b30 assembly and super charge! Although, that is on the short list. Lol. Need to cover my bases. 1 get parts, check. 2 learn to install parts, check. 3 learn how to make parts, Nada. 4, make car worth all the hassle, 5, do it. .. So.. Stroke and turbo comes after body kit. Body kit comes after suspension and interior. So... Almost there buddy. To be honest, if the wife didn't make me buy the fricken e46 with a bad rod bearing I woulda prolly just baught the rocket bunny kit from the maker. Lol. But nooooo! We need a family cahhh. Wahhhh! I swear, it's like she knows that I'm vulnerable to panties and high skirts.

[1215]

I don't have time for a proper response but I've been thinking and think I have some pretty good & cheap ideas that might work for you. More on that later (going to a wake). More importantly; what did MisterKiwi do?

I think you can do it with some packing airbags, masking tape, spray foam and a couple good waxes and non-stick stuff but have a few questions. are you going to chop your existing (front) fenders or are you looking to totally replace that metal? what are you doing with the rear? replace the metal or cut arches and overlay them?

What are you planning for inner fenders? (tubs, wheel well liners, etc.) more later.

[rajicase]

Tell her if she doesn't cut it out and let you turbo your e36 that it will be some other chick's high skirts that you are gonna be vulnerable to. Its so worth it...

[spyderg0d]

What I have already done in hind sight. I found fender flares off a Ford freestyle at a yard for $20. I curled them to the car fenders and attached them with rivets already. I have cut my fenders and spread the sections to make room for the appropriate suspension travel with the wheels and spacer setup il be running. So.. Basically, I made the wheels fit and attached what il use as a good hand made inner liner from the freestyles flares. Also, I think it will give me alot of added strength to the end result as il have more to rivet and bond with. I posted pics of them in the did to my e36 today thread sometime in the last few days.

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Attachment 566869Attachment 566870 I made sure when I installed the plastic flares to put them inside where the idea shape (from my hid images of desired look alike kit) would sit. I haven't yet really got the bumper sections attached, which is next. I imagine during this whole process il be joining the front bumper to the grille to make them 1 solid piece. This will have to be done to eliminate the odd mating edge at the fender( which will obviously have to be altered on all 3 components)

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Note that in this pics I had not yet fit spacers, or cut the fenders.

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But. I feel as though I did indeed fit the rear fender "liners" too low. I will probably end up raising them 1\4" inch. Now if you compare what I've done to what the pandem kit is, I will basically be foaming from the directional light back over the top of the fender, outward from the flare and along the side of the front fenders. Easy draw lines on the fenders for lines and depths. However the back, can spot the beggining lines but curves out from above the stock body Lin line back behind the gas lid. Then stays elevated off the body until after the bumper. This I believe will be difficult and very different for my custom job as I simply won't have wheels that extend some 6-8" from the car! Lol. However. I do believe I can somehow match up the design to my not so exponential wheelbase. Even though I am running 9 1\2" style 37's et 13 with 15 mm spacers, it won't even be within range of what the Google images shows the rocket bunny offset wheel base.

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Oh. And also.. Also, I will not be lowering my car to the 5mm ground clearance the pandem cars have.. To upset this with my 1" drop suspension, I imagine I will make the pandem kit on the car as close as possible, then simply add a lip to the wheel arches, giving the fenders the same closed look with the wheel.

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And adding a lower lip to front and rear bumpers. May also add a slight drop to a rocker panel setup I'm thinking up out of a stock rocker panel getup.

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I have lots of ideas floating around I guess to make this happen as full as possible

[Left Coast]

And why didn't you just buy a honda? Verts weren't built for speed its about the cruise.

[spyderg0d]

Why would I buy anything for speed to drive on city streets? Because I want it, I like it, and I'm making it better for me by me. Duh.

[Left Coast]

then you might want to look into more then body kits. if you want your vert to go fast and handle well you are going to be fighting an up hill battle.

[spyderg0d]

Smh... Biltien HD suspension, aluminum control arms, hr lower race springs, Turner bearings, 3.91 LSD, new m50tu with under 4,000 miles from bav auto recycling with papers, sprint stainless headers, real cai RAM intake. Frame supports welded in, Ported and polished and rebuilt head. Dual mass alum flywheel. 328 driveshaft and axles new. Poly everything. Strut brace and pan x-brace. Shaved door kit. Staggered style 37's on spacers, pending stroker build when I get time to install, pending supercharger when when I get done with body kit. I frequently take my hairpin at the end of my road at 60... I do a quarter around 13. Not fast, but will be very soon. Thanks for the care, but I got it covered!

[Left Coast]

This must not be a DD.

[1215]

Scratch everything I said earlier. Here's a $100 solution. For the record, now that I've seen it, I cannot believe I'm contributing to this shenanigans. It goes against everything I believe in. I'm not a fan, but to each his (or her) own.

You have a welder right? Tear off that crap you have riveted on and start over. Tub the fenders. Problem solved. A 4'x8' sheet of 16ga is $45 and a GOOD roll of ER70S-6 is going to run you about $35. Don't buy shit wire and please don't tell me you are using gasless/flux core. That leaves you a couple bucks left over for beer or whatever.

Take a look at this guy. He seems a little crazy but at least he's got a decent welder (I have the 211). Seems like he tubbed his front, inner fenders for no other purpose but to try and cheat in his class by adding rigidity and bracing through the wheel well tubs. Regardless, there are some decent pics. Sheet metal is as cheap as its going to get. So just roll some metal, slide it into the wheel well and let it stick out the length and profile you are going for. From there either use the metal to finish your flares or spray foam works too.

I see in the back it looks like you glued the flare to the side skirt. Keep maintenance in mind, especially up front. Other nice thing about metal is it's not going to crack like a mofo when you drive the car.

You aren't going to get any cheaper than that. Just to get set up for poly resin is going to cost you $100. Throw it together with metal, learn how to use a hammer & dolly, fill it, paint it and have fun.

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here's a project to look at right here on bfc.

Or just Google "BMW e36 metal flares"

[spyderg0d]

Hmm... The metal isn't close to that price here.. Alot more expensive than that! However. Maybe the scrap yard will let me rip a bunch of hoods apart. .. I don't have the rockers on. .

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I'm already despise this project.

[1215]

CNY Welding and R&S Steel in Rome... Even if it's $100 a sheet that's still going to be less than the acetone and gloves you'll use with epoxy.

[spyderg0d]

Got a hook up from a scrap yard sell me large sheet steel for $20 for ten by ten. And buddy has weekend off. So looks like we're fabricating and grinding all weekend. Think il have under $100 invested without paint. Which is a compromised win.

[JEC928]

This thread started out bad, and is now getting good.

Spydey, you already have E46 fender flares sitting in driveway...

+100 internets to Bfc username 1215!

[spyderg0d]

My wife's e46 is not a viable option for e36 upgrading... .. Rod bearings are pooped...lookin through junk yards for a viable swap candidate. Should be able to find one for under $200. So. $1200 e46 113,000 mile auto, not bad.

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But il be starting tm on the fab work. Just to be clear, I'm trying to replicate the rocket bunny AERO version kit. Not the other Sarto racing kit pandem sells with more rounded DTM style.

I found the relative wheel specs in an article describing the car at rims 10.5" wide all around with -30 offset up front and -60 offset in rear. With my staggered style 37's il need a 30mm spacer upfront and I think a 50-60mm spacer in back to get the same distance from hub to rim edge. Anybody know where I can buy a 60mm wheel spacer!!! Lmao!!!

[Csrracer]

I frequently take my hairpin at the end of my road at 60... !

Id like to see some go pro footage of this please .

[spyderg0d]

This must not be a DD.

Oh, its a DD. Until the kit is done. Then it's just a summer car. Show car. Track it prolly twice. Might Street race. Double clutch through my thirty Honda gears. Race a few muscle cars, get involved in a tractor trailer thieving ring. End up helping the police catch grug cartel leaders, political motivated terrorists trying to blow up the Pentagon, and join forces with a wcw wrestling look alike. .... Or is it just a DD?