Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26

Thread: Is Your E36/E37 Z3 ADS or K-Line?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    pharr, tx
    Posts
    15
    My Cars
    1998 BMW Z3

    Is Your E36/E37 Z3 ADS or K-Line?

    I'm working on setting up a diagnostic platform for my 1998 Z3 2.8 liter Manual. The connection to the car's data port is via a 20 pin connector under the hood. I do not have a 16 pin connector under the steering wheel. At some point the BMW E36/E37 went from ADS (L-Line) to K-Line. To determine exactly if the car is ADS and not K-Line test if pin 15 is wired (as mine is) and powered (mine is not). You will need a volt meter. Connect the positive lead to the position 15 connection and the negative lead to ground. If there is (approximately) 11.1 VDC, then the car is ADS, no voltage, K-Line.

    Please reply with any comments or suggestions.
    Thank You

    20 pin.png
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by mlarry; 06-09-2017 at 10:54 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    12,440
    My Cars
    36 Cylinders
    The only L-Line modules you have on your car are the instrument cluster and possibly ABS/ASC (year dependent).

    All other modules are K-line.


    You don't have a 16pin connector in driver's footwell... because it's in the passengers center console sidewall.


    Have you seen this? http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...xperimentation It may be helpful to you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, for early Z3M, only instrument cluster is L-Line, everything else (including ABS/ASC oddly) are K-line. (Body and chassis modules are at 20-pin port K-Line)


    All facelift Z3 / Z3M have 100% K-line modules, even though there's a pin 15 populated in the 20-pin port. Body and chassis K-line modules are only accessed via 20-pin port though. These cars have dual K-lines.
    Last edited by 328 Power 04; 06-09-2017 at 11:23 AM.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    pharr, tx
    Posts
    15
    My Cars
    1998 BMW Z3
    Thank you

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    pharr, tx
    Posts
    15
    My Cars
    1998 BMW Z3
    Must I install the older installs before installing: "INPA 2016 Pack V1.2a.zip" following these instructions "INPA 2016 Installation.pdf"?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    12,440
    My Cars
    36 Cylinders
    Nope, that pack there has all you need. Beginning to end. Basically run the Standard Tools installation, then let the data loader add all bmw diag data. Then set up your connection.
    You can even skip the environment variables bit in the instructions. The Standard Tools will do it automatically.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Arida Zona
    Posts
    30,094
    My Cars
    z3
    K-line... is that the one that takes me downtown, or do I need to transfer somewhere...?

    Going into my TENTH YEAR of providing high quality reproduction BMW fabrics!

    PRICE CUT on ALL FABRICS
    Offering the best prices on the best quality reproduction fabrics!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    12,440
    My Cars
    36 Cylinders
    I was waiting for the witty comment
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Arida Zona
    Posts
    30,094
    My Cars
    z3
    I got here as soon as I could...

    Carry on

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    pharr, tx
    Posts
    15
    My Cars
    1998 BMW Z3
    328 Power 04,
    I have INPA up and running. Useful info is found for: Engine = "MS 41.1 for M52 US with ODBII"
    Errors reported are:
    Code 1: wrong password with key # 1
    Code 15: power on reset
    Code 253: canister closing valve jammed
    Code 254: missing tank cover
    Code 255: general reset
    All Script selections under Chassis and Body return messages about script running errors.
    Although there is one that pops up several times amongst the possible choices to run is:
    "Requested control unit: 'DWA4' not found. Control unit found: '???'.
    Program will be stopped!
    Issues with car:
    0) Car very rarely starts
    1) When the key is in the second position:
    (a) something under the throttle position sensor constantly runs sounding like an electric fuel pump
    (b) the dash lights all come on
    2) Sometimes the key just spins 360 degrees repeatedly in the ignition before 'catching'
    3) Key fob will not unlock doors (I know 1 of the keys isn't original)
    4) Use key to manually unlock door/trunk and hazard lights blink for 1 minute
    5) Open unlocked door/trunk and hazard lights blink for 1 minute
    6) Here is the show stopper: I disconnected the battery and the trunk will not open!
    I have:
    1) A new fully charged battery
    2) Removed the crash alarm relay
    3) Checked the control unit fuses # 16 and 18
    4) Also connected to the 16 pin on passenger side and get same results for Chassis and Body as with the 20 pin
    connection
    Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
    Larry

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    12,440
    My Cars
    36 Cylinders
    Your Key "#1" internal chip is not matching to the EWS module.
    That or the EWS module is failing. This is why your car won't start.

    When you list codes, you should also specify which module each code was from. (but by deduction, I have an idea that EWS is complaining about key)

    Not being able to connect to DWA (alarm module) is OK. Alarm modules aren't easily reachable. This isn't an alarm problem anyways.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Script errors, such as language variant or version, those are unavoidable and not a problem, more informative than an actual error.. Click OK and continue through.



    At the moment, the most important modules you should be focusing on, are the DME (MS41.1) and EWS (immobilizer).


    The trunk is electrically operated, so disconnecting the battery will do exactly as you said.


    Key spinning in tumbler is common, usually worn out key, or tumbler issues. It's part of a protection feature that if someone were to force the ignition switch with a screwdriver, it would just spin in place. There are various cheap repairs that work... But this is not related to your electronic key issue.




    I would start by clearing errors in the EWS and DME, and re reading them after trying to start car, just to get historical codes out of the way.
    Last edited by 328 Power 04; 06-17-2017 at 03:52 PM.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    12,440
    My Cars
    36 Cylinders
    Oh, and disconnecting battery never fixes anything. Don't waste your time, it's not a "reset" of any kind, ever.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Great Dismal Swamp
    Posts
    16,026
    My Cars
    E36/7 E36/8x2 E46 F25
    Disconnecting the battery did act as a reset on pre-OBDii Hondas and Chevys. The only thing is does on a BMW is give you practice setting the clock and radio.


    At some point you should pull the glovebox and see what is plugged into the DWA harness. It sounds like it may be an aftermarket module. DWA is alarm, locks, flashers, horn. It is not related to EWS, key recognition and starting.


    /.randy

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    pharr, tx
    Posts
    15
    My Cars
    1998 BMW Z3
    I've cleared the errors in the EWS and DME modules:
    engine / MS 41.1 for M52 US with ODBII
    body / EWS Electronic vehicle immobilization
    I cannot view any chassis / modules or the Control Unit

    I have identified the key that causes errors; using the 'good' key, no errors are generated.
    When I open unlocked door/trunk and hazard lights blink for 1 minute, car won't start most 90% of the time.
    No new errors are found in in the EWS and DME modules using the 'good' key.

    Not sure what to do next

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Kent, Ohio
    Posts
    4,431
    My Cars
    1998 M Roadster
    Quote Originally Posted by mlarry View Post
    I have identified the key that causes errors; using the 'good' key, no errors are generated.
    When I open unlocked door/trunk and hazard lights blink for 1 minute, car won't start most 90% of the time.
    This statement could be clearer to better help you diagnose or fix your issue. Are saying as follows:
    When you don't lock the door, and then open either a door or the trunk, that the flashers will blink for one minute.
    When the flashers are blinking in this manner, and you try and start the car using the "good" key, it won't start most of the time (90%), but will start on occasion (10%).

    What exactly do you mean by "won't start" (engine turns but doesn't engage, or engine wont turn at all--nothing happens)?

    Have you pulled the glove box and unplugged whatever alarm module is plugged in back there?

    The spinning tumbler is common and requires that you replace the tumbler with new (dealer only). If ignored it will eventually spin and not catch. There are excellent youtube video's on how to do this, including some on how to fix the tumbler without replacing it, but that looks sketchy to me.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    pharr, tx
    Posts
    15
    My Cars
    1998 BMW Z3

    car not starting - next steps taken

    When I open an unlocked door or the trunk the hazard lights blink for 1 minute.
    The button on the key fob, with a new battery, does nothing.
    The engine does nothing 90% of the time, all dash lights come on and I can hear what sounds like an electric fuel pump humming under the hood.
    But 10% of the time it fires right up.
    The car has 50k miles on the clock.
    I'm trying to discern which is the alarm module in the attached picture of my car.

    1998 Z3 2.8L under dash.jpg

    I did just replace the struts, shocks, rotors, pads, and pad wear sensors. Could this be related? The system bled ok.
    Additionally the previous owner informed me that you must hold the clutch petal all the way to the floor or the car won't start - which I found to be true. He said it hadn't always been that way. I looked at how the switch operates and this didn't make sense as the clutch safety switch was fully released at about 1/4 of the way to the floor; but I've ordered a new clutch safety switch anyway.

    Thank you for you help.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Great Dismal Swamp
    Posts
    16,026
    My Cars
    E36/7 E36/8x2 E46 F25
    There was only one Z3 key with a button, and all the button did was turn on a light built into the key. The stock DWA uses a separate fob, as will most aftermarket alarms.


    You're looking at the wrong clutch switch.


    /.randy

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Kent, Ohio
    Posts
    4,431
    My Cars
    1998 M Roadster
    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    There was only one Z3 key with a button, and all the button did was turn on a light built into the key.
    I still have that key and the light still works.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    West Chester, Pa
    Posts
    113
    My Cars
    1997 BMW Z3, 2009 550i
    Cant help but think that the alarm module ( dealer installed option ) is active, but perhaps the siren ( mounted under the hood, near the steering colum ) was removed. You wouldn't hear the siren. Not sure if the alarms imobilized the car or not. It would account for some of the strange things you have going on. As stated above, unplug it. I think the dealer units were alpine. I looked at your pic, but its been so long since I installed mine, I cant remember which module it is, although many dealers just kind of stuffed them in there, so if you see a module that doesn't seem attached, thats probably it.

    Good luck!

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    pharr, tx
    Posts
    15
    My Cars
    1998 BMW Z3
    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    You're looking at the wrong clutch switch.
    Thanks! Just ordered a Cruise Control Clutch Switch

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    pharr, tx
    Posts
    15
    My Cars
    1998 BMW Z3

    Is this unused connector the DWA harness?

    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    see what is plugged into the DWA harness. It sounds like it may be an aftermarket module. DWA is alarm, locks, flashers, horn. It is not related to EWS, key recognition and starting.
    Is this unused connector the DWA harness?
    Z3 DWA.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Great Dismal Swamp
    Posts
    16,026
    My Cars
    E36/7 E36/8x2 E46 F25
    Could well be the DWA plug. If you trace those added wires, I suspect you will find an aftermarket unit and likely the root of your problem.

    And yes. Cruise switch triggers at the top of the pedal travel, starter switch at the bottom. Guess which one is easier to see and access.


    /.randy

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    pharr, tx
    Posts
    15
    My Cars
    1998 BMW Z3
    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    If you trace those added wires, I suspect you will find an aftermarket unit and likely the root of your problem
    You're correct. Now what?

    1998 Z3 2.8L under dash.jpg
    Thank You A Lot.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Great Dismal Swamp
    Posts
    16,026
    My Cars
    E36/7 E36/8x2 E46 F25
    option one. Contact Clifford and see what would be involved in obtaining a remote and getting it properly paired.

    Option two, Remove it and all the wiring you can, splice the starter wires back together. Installers like to cut-n-splice into the ignition switch harness. If so, it will be black and yellow. In the odd chance they went downstream, the main harness is green and black.

    Option 2a is to fix the starter wiring, and if this fixes the car, decide what to do with Cliffard afterwards.


    /.randy

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Kent, Ohio
    Posts
    4,431
    My Cars
    1998 M Roadster
    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    option one. Contact Clifford and see what would be involved in obtaining a remote and getting it properly paired.

    Option two, Remove it and all the wiring you can, splice the starter wires back together. Installers like to cut-n-splice into the ignition switch harness. If so, it will be black and yellow. In the odd chance they went downstream, the main harness is green and black.

    Option 2a is to fix the starter wiring, and if this fixes the car, decide what to do with Cliffard afterwards.
    I recommend option 2--get that thing the he** out of your car. Car alarms are useless or worse--when is the last time you heard one go off and said to yourself "I should call the police as clearly someone is steeling a car." In your case your alarm may actually be interfering with you car working at all--that is not ok. Get rid of the alarm, fix your tumbler, and all issues will be resolved.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    san diego
    Posts
    1,025
    My Cars
    ...it depands
    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    K-line... is that the one that takes me downtown, or do I need to transfer somewhere...?
    Back in Chicago, L-line would take you to downtown.

    On serious note:
    For OP, it was interesting to read this thread because I was experiencing similar alarm related side effect although in different outcome of situation.

    After experimenting with spare ECU with EWS delete (ms41.1) using RR with help from Abel, I've noticed that my car would crank without transponder. YES, engine starts, and it shouldn't happen from what i am told. But if I put original ecu (ms41.2 with ews delete also) back in, then it works as it should (i.e., no transponder = no crank).

    I was then able to narrow down to my aftermarket alarm system from United Auto Security (this was the closest to oem integration) as source of cause although I have not been able to confirm it YET.

    But if that holds true, the UAS kit is somehow allowing to bypass/ignore EWS module with unaligned ecu so engine can crank even without the chip. So we'll see...
    Last edited by nevan; 06-25-2017 at 12:29 PM.
    2000 Z3 M Titanium Silver / Imola Red+Black Nappa
    2011 328i E92 Space Gray Metallic / Leder Dakota+Oyster
    Since 1987 12 euros / 2 kdms / 2 jdms
    - Zach

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. post your favorite BMW e46 ads or videos...
    By znc07 in forum 1999 - 2006 (E46)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-27-2007, 10:31 PM
  2. Is your e36 manual or auto?
    By heifetz17 in forum 1991 - 1999 (E36)
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 03-16-2005, 12:08 AM
  3. Is your Bimmer a 2 door or 4 door?
    By Newbomb Turk in forum General BMW and Automotive Discussion sponsored by Intercity Lines
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 05-22-2004, 01:23 AM
  4. which is bigger, E36 EURO spec M3 or E39 540 Mass air senser?
    By Lee22 in forum General BMW and Automotive Discussion sponsored by Intercity Lines
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-26-2001, 09:50 AM
  5. which is bigger, E36 EURO spec M3 or E39 540 Mass air senser?
    By Lee22 in forum General BMW and Automotive Discussion sponsored by Intercity Lines
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-24-2001, 03:52 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •