Chinese Brake Rotors; by all the names you trusted

[TostitoBandito]

Throw on some aggressive race pads for a bit and they should clean off any compound deposits on the rotors. Deposits aren't unusual for anyone who takes their car to the track and gets their rotors really really hot. You of course try to do everything you can to avoid them like not tapping the brake while stopped with hot brakes, but sometimes they happen. They typically wear down eventually, or very quickly with aggressive pads.

I'm not sure why you're listing companies like Brembo and Stoptech here. Many high-end street cars use Brembo as an OEM, and Stoptechs can be found on many racecars in the sportscar racing world. If they were crap this wouldn't be so. Is there data to back this up, or is this just xenophobic anti-China rant? A lot of well-known European OEM's manufacture in Asia and still make quality products. There's a big difference between something made by Bosch/Brembo/ATE in China and something made by URO or one of the other similar "pretend" OEM's in China. One is a quality part made to high standards by a reputable company and the other is probably not.

[bmwdirtracer]

I, and many of the other racers and techs here, have had terrible experiences with Chinese made parts, including those made by well known companies like StopTech, Meyle, and Bosch. I have found StopTech pads and rotors to be absolute garbage. Their "High Performance Street" pads do not work when cold, which makes them quite deadly. Their slotted street rotors are, according to Zeckhausen, impregnated with phosphate, which means they must not be bedded normally, or the phosphate impregnates the pads and ruins them. (Hey, this is from Zeckhausen, ask them). I'll never buy their crap again. Two other instructors I'm friends with have also found their "performance" level products to be crap. Maybe their $4000 big brake packages are not inferior, but given experience with their other stuff, I won't buy it.

The Chinese rotors seem to be made of inferior iron, which transforms to Cementite much more easily than the German Zimmermans and Ates.

As for deposits, scrubbing them off only works if you attend to it immediately, before the metallurgy of the rotors change to cementite in those spots....which only takes a dozen miles. After the metallurgy has changed, the rotors are trash.

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...nd-other-myths

By all means, if you like buying Chinese made products, rather than those from Europe, U.S., Japan, or other countries with well known quality control standards, carry on. I'll pass.

[ross1]

Axial run-out for whatever reason effectively means "warped". The discussion is a matter of semantics as the effect is same. Who cares what you call it?
I've read the article posted before, it's interesting but more than I need to know. I take issue with the authors assertion that the brake fluid should not be topped off. The low level indicator is NOT a device to warn for pad wear. It's intended to warn of hydraulic failure in which case I'd prefer to have a bit more fluid on board.
It would be comforting to think some of these trusted names will be imposing and enforcing their own quality standards on the factories manufacturing these.

[pbonsalb]

Centric, which bought Stoptech, used to be known for having quality blank rotors used by racers with good results. They made a couple of grades and probably the cheaper ones were not high carbon steel.

[TostitoBandito]

Again, this has nothing to do with China. These are not Chinese companies that you're complaining about, and the companies are who set the quality standards for their own products. If your iphone breaks you don't go off on a rant against China (where it's assembled), but you go harass Apple who is responsible for their product.

Yes I buy all my parts from major European OEM's when possible, but I know that some of those European OEM's make parts overseas and I don't have a problem with that since they stand behind them. Blanket statements that everything stamped with "Made in China" is crap are ignorant and offensive. There's plenty of crap turned out in this country too. You also don't know where these large companies manufacture all their various products, so blacklisting an entire brand based on a single part or its country of origin is ridiculous.

[Jason5driver]

I, and many of the other racers and techs here, have had terrible experiences with Chinese made parts, including those made by well known companies like StopTech, Meyle, and Bosch. I have found StopTech pads and rotors to be absolute garbage. Their "High Performance Street" pads do not work when cold, which makes them quite deadly. Their slotted street rotors are, according to Zeckhausen, impregnated with phosphate, which means they must not be bedded normally, or the phosphate impregnates the pads and ruins them. (Hey, this is from Zeckhausen, ask them). I'll never buy their crap again. Two other instructors I'm friends with have also found their "performance" level products to be crap. Maybe their $4000 big brake packages are not inferior, but given experience with their other stuff, I won't buy it.

The Chinese rotors seem to be made of inferior iron, which transforms to Cementite much more easily than the German Zimmermans and Ates.

As for deposits, scrubbing them off only works if you attend to it immediately, before the metallurgy of the rotors change to cementite in those spots....which only takes a dozen miles. After the metallurgy has changed, the rotors are trash.

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...nd-other-myths

By all means, if you like buying Chinese made products, rather than those from Europe, U.S., Japan, or other countries with well known quality control standards, carry on. I'll pass.

Chris,
I have the StopTech street pads and they definitely do have problems in cold weather.
I just need to find a brake pad that works as well as OEM, but doesn’t dust and destroys the wheels like the OEM pads...

[TostitoBandito]

Chris,
I have the StopTech street pads and they definitely do have problems in cold weather.
I just need to find a brake pad that works as well as OEM, but doesn’t dust and destroys the wheels like the OEM pads...

Any of the more aggressive "performance street" pads are going to have this issue. They like to be warm for maximum grip, and tend to have a more linear curve (you have to press the pedal harder initially). You trade cold bite for better heat tolerance and better grip at high temperatures (like on a track). All the OEM pads are engineered for maximum cold bite and tend to be really grabby even when ice cold, so that if someone taps the brakes their car stops immediately even if they don't press the pedal very hard. There should be a number of direct "OEM-replacement" type pads which may have less dust than OEM but not necessarily any better performance. If the Stoptechs aren't doing it for you, try Cool Carbon, Pagid, EBC, Hawk, etc...

My experience on the E36 at least is that the OEM pads while dusty are very long lasting and not hard at all on the rotors, though they're very much lacking on the track and fade heavily when hot as you'd expect. I'm currently using PFC Z-Rated pads which don't have as much cold bite as the OEM pads but are really good when warmed up and do as at least as well on the track as any other non-race pad.

[bmwdirtracer]

Any of the more aggressive "performance street" pads are going to have this issue. They like to be warm for maximum grip, and tend to have a more linear curve (you have to press the pedal harder initially). You trade cold bite for better heat tolerance and better grip at high temperatures (like on a track). All the OEM pads are engineered for maximum cold bite and tend to be really grabby even when ice cold, so that if someone taps the brakes their car stops immediately even if they don't press the pedal very hard. There should be a number of direct "OEM-replacement" type pads which may have less dust than OEM but not necessarily any better performance. If the Stoptechs aren't doing it for you, try Cool Carbon, Pagid, EBC, Hawk, etc...

My experience on the E36 at least is that the OEM pads while dusty are very long lasting and not hard at all on the rotors, though they're very much lacking on the track and fade heavily when hot as you'd expect. I'm currently using PFC Z-Rated pads which don't have as much cold bite as the OEM pads but are really good when warmed up and do as at least as well on the track as any other non-race pad.

And you're going to say I'm making ridiculous blanket statements? Have you ever tried Hawk HP+ ? They'll slam you through the windshield, stone cold, in winter. No, I don't like them for street use: they're incredibly noisy, and very rotor-aggressive....but they damned sure stop immediately, stone cold. The two different PFC compounds I've tried work perfectly stone cold, AND continue working at full-hot, maximum track abuse on a heavy E34 M5, too. Unfortunately, PFC doesn't make anything for my E39 M5 front end. The "High Performance " StopTech pads not only did not work cold, they overheated in less than 2 laps at VIR.....kind of like "AllSeason Tires"....not much good for anything.

You believe what you want to believe, regarding Chinese products for BMWs....I think they're crap, and I don't care whether that offends you. I'll send my money to Germany, for Zimmerman rotors. In fact, the shop where I work, as well as half a dozen top-quality BMW / Euro specialist shops I know very well insist on non-Chinese parts, too. So do most of the pro BMW techs I know, and pretty much all the racers and instructors.....go figure.

Jason, for street use, I haven't found anything that beats OEM pads....yes, they dust

[TostitoBandito]

I haven't used the Hawk pads, no. The point I was trying to make was that there are aftermarket street pads out there, not the higher performance street pads like Hawk HPS, which are comparable to OEM and some probably have less dust. I'm more familiar with the performance brands/models since I track my car, but I know they're out there. Hell, I'm sure the cheap Powerstop pads I put on my Mazda CX-5 come in sizes to fit various BMW's.

My PFC pads stop fine cold too, but they're certainly noticeably different in bite and feel to OEM (but not as bad as race pads). When I first put them on it was surprising, but I'm used to them now. They aren't noisy at all though.

Jason, for street use, I haven't found anything that beats OEM pads....yes, they dust

I fully agree with that statement. The BMW OEM pads are fantastic for the street. They should be quiet and will give you great bite in any legal/street driving conditions. If I drove my car solely on the street I wouldn't feel any need to switch them out. If dust is an issue, you're not washing your car enough or you're being hard on your brakes.

[dworthy]

+1

If you don't want dust on the rims, just use some rim wax. Rim wax keeps about 50% of the dust off the rims, and make for very easy clean-up.

So what I have noticed that even German branded "Made in China" rotors are not up to the standards. I had some ATE rotors that went bad in oh say 7k, while the power slotted ATE "Made in Germany" have been on there for about 7k now and no issues. I use the OE/OEM pads even on the autobahn work nicely. I have tried some off brands like Duralast on the E-36, and they lasted about 5k before the rotors were scored and the pads started to crumble. On the M3 ECS-Tuning refused to refund or compensate me for the fact that their "GEOThermal" slotted rotors went bad after 4k. I was using BMW pads on those rotors, and ended up just buying the cross-drilled CSL rotors anyway. I lost the fade I used to get with the original rotors after 2-3 hard braking from 160 down to 60 on the autobahn.

So yes I do think those companies are compromising quality for quantity to maximize profits and it just maybe a coincidence that the factories are in China. Also there are alot of Replica/knock-off that are also using those brand names getting sold to the general public. BMW as well as a lot of big companies are seeing their brands getting this done to them too. Of course when tested those parts do not stand up to the quality at all.