E39 Sunroof Repair tips including cassette removal

[philly98540]

Is the glass the same size as the E39? No roof body work required? If not, thats a pretty involved project considering inside and outside work.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Oh... X53 sunroof is bigger, and longer, 2 panes of glass. There will be cutting and hacking, a lot of measuring and marking so that you don't end up cutting something 3 times , wondering why it's still too short.... The metal work is the easy part. The upholstery will be the hard part, in my opinion. It is gonna be a real involved undertaking when it happens. Now that I know the X53 sunroof is dirt cheap, should be fun. As of now, my sunroof still works great....

[jp5Touring]

I used this DIY today when I pulled my headliner to get recovered. geargrinder Thank You. What a great diy went pretty smooth thanks to you.

I did struggle a little with the rear speaker covers. I was worried they would bust to smithereens,but got it figured out. The beauty is I get to do it again two more times. Yeah

[geargrinder]

Nice! Glad to hear my obsessive note taking and ranting eventually comes in handy... I'd forgotten how many notes I'd typed up on this! Of course I did like 5 cassette removals last year between my car and ScottieDucati's...

Yeah the Touring speaker covers are pretty straight forward once you understand where the tabs are and can pry gently with soft tools... and agreed, seem like their gonna break but they must be made of better plastic than you'd think. Prob being out of the UV helps.

[dmo84556]

Geargrinder, so I'm having trouble putting things back together. Where I'm stuck is replacing the sliders (one with just T10). On removal I slide them out from front; it required a 45 degree turn to get it out. Attaching some pics for context. First show a small broken piece and 2nd is the rail. Looking to get it done tomorrow, if possible. Any advice is greatly appreciated!
IMG_8400.jpgIMG_8388.jpg

[geargrinder]

Geargrinder, so I'm having trouble putting things back together. Where I'm stuck is replacing the sliders (one with just T10). On removal I slide them out from front; it required a 45 degree turn to get it out. Attaching some pics for context. First show a small broken piece and 2nd is the rail. Looking to get it done tomorrow, if possible. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Well. There's a lotta 'sliders' on these things. Yer not givin' too much to go on, I've just had to spend 5 minutes trying to figure out exactly what you are saying.

I wouldn't call those 'sliders' if we are calling the other sliding feet type parts "sliders". We have to make up our own parts names here since BMW doesn't do that for us unfortunately. And it is a pain in the ass that everybody calls every part in the sunroof a "slider". Never use the word "slider" without some adjectives to indicate what fahkrzkin part you mean. Mmmmm buffalo BBQ sliders on sourdough buns.

But in fact in this case we have a 'real name' and "boot support rail" is what BMW calls it.

The parts we are dealing with for you are bolded below.

[*][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial]
The key components of the main system are, from front to rear:

1. The front wind deflector. This snaps in/out very easily. Not hard linked to the other parts, just gets 'pushed down'.
2. Front metal glass sliders. Generally impossible to fork up I think. They are moved by being pushed around by the glass itself. They also lower/raise the front wind deflector #9 via pins that stick out on the sides.
3. The main middle slide & lift assembly. This is basically #7/13 (glass or steel is diff between those). This gets pushed around by the box-section lift-arm, does whatever that does. This includes several sub-parts.
   
   • Forward plastic slider foot for the lift arm. This is what breaks 90% of the time and can be sourced aftermarket now.
   • The box-section lift arm that extends forward
   • The top plate and 'axle' that tie the glass, box-arm together and to the rear slider parts.
   • A 'pivot-shoe' for the lift arm. The box section slides on this, and when it hits a certain point moving forward, flips up to push the roof upward instead of forward.
   • The actual main slide that secures the pivot shoe into the track, and is the main operator of the entire roof. Nothing else moves or is attached to the cable except for being pulled/shoved by these guys.
   
   
4. Rear metal arms that connects the middle lift to the rear sliders and the rear rain deflector. These are a critical part of activating the 'lifting' function of the roof, without them the roof will not move upwards at the forward part of its travel.
5. A rear plastic slider. Part of #8. This carries the rear rain deflector and is an anchor point stabilizer for the lift-actuating arms. It gets pulled/pushed around purely by being connected to the lift arm mechanism.
6. Rear rain deflector, which actually also serves a metal arm and rear slider alignment and stabilization function IMO. These last 3 parts at first seem 'optional' but really are not as without them the roof won't push upwards.
7. In addition there is an entirely separate mechanism of sliding rails on either side to carry the accordion bellows ('boot' in aka 'boot support' rail in BMW speak), AND to 'interlock' with the sunshade to make it open up when the roof is either opened or tilted, These ride in their own channels, but also slide on to engage the main sliders, and also slide on to engage the interior sunshade.

[/LIST]

Yeah. Those rails can be a bitch. Why did you remove parts? If you were just replacing the forward lift-foot (the 90% of breakages part) then that was totally unnecessary. I mean that's kinda water under the bridge, but they indeed are a PITA.
The boot-rail wants to slide into the grooves on those tabs on the top of main-control-slider from behind. Part thats broken there. You're probably trying to force them from the front, try slipping the rail backwards into the roof pocket (compress the bellows of course) and getting that leading edge to slip into the groove on the main slide... they should slide through easily and go back into their location.

This is for an E38, and the part is slightly different (the little wheel dealie) but you'll see its more or less same idea. He's removed the bellows from the rail but its otherwise the same part. Watch how it slides off the back.

https://youtu.be/vzYjtAHK-sw?t=5m54s

Now. Your second pic obv shows that one of your main control-sliders is busted. Did that break as you were removing the boot-rail or was it pre-broken?

To fix that you need to remove the main control slider and to get that out you really need the cassette out of the car (unless you can figure out a trick that I couldn't). You basically have to take all the other parts out of the front of the track, then wind the cables until the control-slider parts reach the very very front of the roof and come off the cables. What makes that impossible (again - unless you can figure out a trick that I couldn't) is that there's not enough space at the front for them to slide all the way out in the car.

Now - if you reassemble as-is, it may sorta work OK... but it might jam the sunshade sometimes if that broken side is able to flop around and if disproportionate pressure gets applied to one side...

Good luck...

[dmo84556]

Appreciate the detailed reply. I realize my terminology was likely off but that’s what it looked like since it slid back and forth.

I tinkered a little more and figured the right way was to collapse the bellows (?) and slide back into roof. It was then I was able to get the rail into the 3 clips that were part of the cassette assembly.

All put back together, adjusted and opening & closing like before but. Ow with a replacement sunshade that was not falling apart.

Thanks for the help!




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[tptrsn]

THAT is how you fix one of these godforsaken sunroofs!

[philly98540]

Yup

[computiNATEor]

I have a working sunroof now, but when it fails (not if, but when), I will be using that product, Thad.

[edjack]

ibid, post #2.

[tptrsn]

I have a working sunroof now, but when it fails (not if, but when), I will be using that product, Thad.

I can vouch, for those of us who lack the patience, persistence, skill, or whatever the case may be, that stuff is a godsend! Definitely one of the best few improvements I've made to my car.

geargrinder must have the patience of Job to not only gain full understanding of these sunroofs, but then to also compile his knowledge on the subject into a comprehensive repair manual like this.

[1823alex]

UGH!!

If only you had written this DIY for me 2 weeks ago haha. - nevermind, I'm just dumb I just replaced the entire cassette with my Dad like 2 weeks ago and it wasn't that bad. Worst part IMO is the headliner, but I figured I might as well just replace the whole thing with a working one for $100. The other hard part is just getting the whole cassette positioned properly and getting enough screws in to hold it up on it's own.

By the way, if anybody needs an extra piece of glass for an E39 sunroof OR a gray sunroof headliner cover thingy, PM me haha.

This is all assuming you just decided to replace the entire cassette though.

[computiNATEor]

UGH!!

If only you had written this DIY for me 2 weeks ago haha. I just replaced the entire cassette with my Dad like 2 weeks ago and it wasn't that bad. Worst part IMO is the headliner, but I figured I might as well just replace the whole thing with a working one for $100. The other hard part is just getting the whole cassette positioned properly and getting enough screws in to hold it up on it's own.

By the way, if anybody needs an extra piece of glass for an E39 sunroof OR a gray sunroof headliner cover thingy, PM me haha.

This is all assuming you just decided to replace the entire cassette though.

GearGrinder’s original post has been up since June of last year.

[geargrinder]

Worst part IMO is the headliner, but I figured I might as well just replace the whole thing with a working one for $100.

This is similar to my decision process. Tried to fix old one, mixed success, increasing compromises with "well that part is a little broken but still mostly works..." finally said eff-it, and went and ripped the junkyard one out. REALLY fun to pull a sunroof out of a "2nd story" car that's teetering on the roof of a different E39. By yourself. In on/off rain.

[philly98540]

^wearing dress shoes?

[geargrinder]

(high heels)

[1823alex]

GearGrinder’s original post has been up since June of last year.

Well I guess I'm just dumb.

This is similar to my decision process. Tried to fix old one, mixed success, increasing compromises with "well that part is a little broken but still mostly works..." finally said eff-it, and went and ripped the junkyard one out. REALLY fun to pull a sunroof out of a "2nd story" car that's teetering on the roof of a different E39. By yourself. In on/off rain.

Haha, that sounds awful, makes it a little bit easier for me to justify paying $100 for one that's already known working and pulled off by my parts guy. If you're near The Wisconsin / IL border let me know and I'll send you his info.

[computiNATEor]

(high heels)

Pix? Lol

[M 7]

Is the glass the same size as the E39? No roof body work required? If not, thats a pretty involved project considering inside and outside work.

Hi, guys, all your addressed compatability questiins between e39 metal and glass sunroof are detailed in this video, and all problems from jamming, to gearing and motor noise, causes etc.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...mRPGEEthGqoDtc

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[M 7]

https://youtu.be/6v-9dtBKp14

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[M 7]

I used this DIY today when I pulled my headliner to get recovered. geargrinder Thank You. What a great diy went pretty smooth thanks to you.

I did struggle a little with the rear speaker covers. I was worried they would bust to smithereens,but got it figured out. The beauty is I get to do it again two more times. Yeah

https://youtu.be/6v-9dtBKp14, here you can see all details and reasons and solution for gear grinding, hope you will find it usefull

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[M 7]

https://youtu.be/6v-9dtBKp14, here you can see all details and reasons and solution for gear grinding, hope you will find it usefull

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https://youtu.be/6v-9dtBKp14


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[FlyinM5]

Working on our Japanrot '01 540i/A moonroof.

I have the cassette out and repaired but I'm not sure how the shade connects to the glass so that the shade opens with the glass and so the shade can be slid back when the glass is closed.

Thanks for any and all info!

Edit: Think i figured it out.

The front part of the interior glass surround catches on the shade and pulls it open when you open the moonroof.

The cable opens the shade a few inches when it tilts.

[stashtrey]

Fantastic information and detailed instructions! Thank you for sharing this.

I have a sunroof nightmare going on right now and there is one thing I can't seem to figure out.

My main pivot control sliders that are directly pushed/pulled by the cable in the track are both broken. They sheered off from the pivot arms unfortunately. I have complete replacement units and want to get them installed but I can't figure out how I'll be able to get the broken ones out and the new ones back in place between the cable pins.

From what I can see they definitely need to go out the back of the track with the cassette removed from the car due to no room from the front to slide them in.

Where I get confused is does the cable go all the way out the rear end of the track? There appears to be a brass/gold pin on each side of the pivot control slider that moves along the track by the cable. Are those retractable? Do they come out the back of the track?

Hope this makes sense. This sunroof has me more frustrated than just about any job I've done on all three of my Name's including an engine swap, broken piston and ECU issues. Ugh!

Starting to think I should just bite the bullet and buy a new or used working cassette. At this point I'd pay a lot of $ to just make this go away. Worried I'll get the pivot control slider units back in and promptly break everything again!

Any insights would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks again for all the valuable information!

Todd
tjkeller@gmail.com