Budget 4.4+ jaguar supercharger build

[philly98540]

Yeah, what's that motors history?

Hatching might be factory, but hard to see on pic on my phone.

[1999 540i m]

The motor came from the junkyard, The writing on the windshield said non running unit.

The strange things are upper timing covers one is a '97 other is '03, engine is '02, center and left timing guides '02, right guide '11, valley pan '02,

I think this is a questionable rebuild, my concern is the cylinder walls, my limited knowledge is that the walls are not to be resurfaced, I see what looks like bottle brush marks, Could that be a problem?

[geargrinder]

I don't have exact numbers on everything yet, all the little stuff keeps adding up.
SNIP

Hmmm. Doesn't seem so much like 'budget' to me... but lets see what you come out with! Do you have HP or torque target? AFAIK Toolman has demurred about dyno on his kits. From my understanding of the ceiling for that setup (aka that those Jag blowers aren't real great, they just happen to be cheap in the 'yards) , that might be kinda asspensive?

Also, if you're putting that much dough in, I'd ditch the bush league rising rate FPR approach, and toss some investment into either tuning the factory DME or getting a piggyback or standalone to get real proper control of the tuning.

BTW that's not to be negative on the build, fully support, keep rockin, I'd like to see more toolman based builds with proper tuning / management systems and would like to really see some dynos for them as well.

The motor came from the junkyard, The writing on the windshield said non running unit.

The strange things are upper timing covers one is a '97 other is '03, engine is '02, center and left timing guides '02, right guide '11, valley pan '02,

I think this is a questionable rebuild, my concern is the cylinder walls, my limited knowledge is that the walls are not to be resurfaced, I see what looks like bottle brush marks, Could that be a problem?

Very interesting. We found similar things w/ the ex-RSB wagon, some weird part dates on stuff as it started to come apart. Not to mention bizarrely finding a pac-man diag connector zip tied in the back of the engine bay of a supposed 2001 car. As 'ho man will confirm I'm sure, you find some weird crap when you start tearing down used cars.

I'd agree between those weird part datings, and the pristine look of the guts, and if you think the cross-hatching is 'freshened up', that motor was probably recently assembled and then something went wrong.

Shiny shiny pristine pistons etc. can sometimes mean coolant leakage however that's usually head gasket related and this all looks super uniform. So yeah... pretty much looks fresh assembled.

Opinions seem to vary if you can hone these or not but seems if you're not a gambler, then the answer is 'no'. The problem is that they aren't sleeved, they have the special Alusil coating on the bores which are honed very specially with acids or something or other during manufacture to create the coating layer. So if you hone that with normal methods you take out the lining layer. Some say you can still do it if you know what you're doing or if you do it very lightly. I dunno. VAC seems to sleeve blocks when they build them. To re-do the factory liner treatment is practically impossible apparently aka not 'impossible impossible' but for cost it makes zero sense.

[tptrsn]

Consistent with GG's comments above: From what I have been able to "learn" -- IF you can really call it that when you're just scouring the internetz for information -- if you did some sort of physical honing operation like normal stones or flex-hone, you'd probably need to complete a process to sort of eat away the aluminum substrate material from between the silicon "globules." The Alusil is an aluminum alloy with a very high silicon content, and the silicon is the high durability component that gives the cylinder walls their hard surface that also holds the lubricating oil film in lieu of normal crosshatch marks.

To relieve the aluminum substrate material it is said that they use an acid etching process at the factory. Alternatively, Sunnen makes special felt honing "stones," with which you use a special honing paste to gently eat away the aluminum between the silicon bits. Some people have made due with standard honing stones, but then wrapping the whole hone assembly in some sort of microfiber or something, and then using the Sunnen paste.

If you see crosshatch marks that make you think "bottlebrush," i.e. FlexHone, then you might be well served to grab some of the Sunnen alusil paste and resurface those bores a bit... FWIW..

[tptrsn]

Here's some detailed information that was written primarily in terms of the old Vega engine blocks, but that seems to be directly applicable to our Alusil blocks:

http://www.sunnen.com/NewsDetails.aspx?NewsID=11

[tptrsn]

Some more good, basic information about what Alusil is in relation to the more commonly known Nikasil:

http://www.engineprofessional.com/TB/EPQ408_18-22.pdf

Oh, apparently the Sunnen paste is called "AN30."

https://goodson.com/products/an-30-silicon-compound

P.S. GG, I think this dude has tacitly proclaimed his entry into the deadpool!

[Mach540]

This looks like it had water sitting in it.

Untitled.jpg

I agree with the above.... someone had this engine apart, cleaned it all up and honed the cylinders, which did not work. Thus the crappy compression.
I'd study up on the Alusil theory, and do a proper hone job. New rings and bearings and off ya go.

[tptrsn]

This thread and the thread it links to are pretty great reads about cylinder prep for Alusil bores (in Porsche cylinder jugs in this case):

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...r-dummies.html

[1999 540i m]

Here's some better pics, no water inside it, I think this engine made it as far as test firing, but the timing was off to far for it to run or run right, I don't know this is very strange.

I'm still reading all the links tprstn posted and am learning a lot thanks.

GG I wont touch the computer because I plan to take off the supercharger every 2 years for a couple days than put it back on

IMG_0937.jpg

Here is the inside of the exhaust on the head
IMG_0933.jpg

IMG_0932.jpg

[geargrinder]

GG I wont touch the computer because I plan to take off the supercharger every 2 years for a couple days than put it back on

uh wut?

[tptrsn]

uh wut?

You don't really want to ask that, do you?

[tptrsn]

That cylinder bore really does look like a normally prepped cast iron cylinder bore... Would be very interesting to know what went on with this engine, but I suppose that is impossible. FWIW, I would totally do the Sunnen AN30 treatment to those cylinder bores, reassemble that sucker, and break it in like I stole it. FWIW, haha.

[XAlt]

That cylinder bore really does look like a normally prepped cast iron cylinder bore... Would be very interesting to know what went on with this engine, but I suppose that is impossible. FWIW, I would totally do the Sunnen AN30 treatment to those cylinder bores, reassemble that sucker, and break it in like I stole it. FWIW, haha.

AN30 is actually unicorn piss paste, sadly brake cleaner still wins.

[tptrsn]

AN30 is actually unicorn piss paste, sadly brake cleaner still wins.

You have my attention, please elaborate!

[XAlt]

You have my attention, please elaborate!

The Porsche guys who score cylinders every other week use it as a barrier method for cylinder scoring, even on Nikasil blocks.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...57#post8627357

complete lack of scoring, albeit garbage quality pics

[tptrsn]

Sorry XAlt, I might be too dense to understand the significance of what I'm seeing in that thread.

Back to (?) the Porsche guys, are you saying they do the honing process using brake cleaner in lieu of AN30 on the felt honing blocks or rags covering standard honing blocks?

[XAlt]

Sorry XAlt, I might be too dense to understand the significance of what I'm seeing in that thread.

Back to (?) the Porsche guys, are you saying they do the honing process using brake cleaner in lieu of AN30 on the felt honing blocks or rags covering standard honing blocks?

No, I'm saying that people accidentally remove the paste with oven/brake cleaner when they degrease their blocks. That's what appears to have happened here.

AN30 is becoming popular with the Porsche guys because their Alusil (and Nikasil) blocks are prone to scoring. They end up looking quite shiny, even in sub-100k mile cars whereas the dull grey finish on our blocks is almost always there.

[philly98540]

Post a close up of the cross hatching. On my block, there is factory cross hatching visible on the bores. The hatching pattern must survive the final paste hone.

They might have just took it apart and cleaned stuff without any additional hone work. Look at the bottom of the bore, where the piston travel ends, and see if there is any discernable variation in surface finish below the piston travel. If there is, then they likely did not hone it.

[XAlt]

Attachment 601740
Ideally, you want this (picture from an abused M70). Looks like somebody went overboard with the cleaning job.

http://www.renn-list.com/Alusil-Cyli...0600247-3.html
https://www.porscherepair.us/power-s...-gts-54-i.html

Some people have it thicker than others, I suspect Porsche was on the thinner side.

[tptrsn]

The AN30 isn't supposed to stay on the bore from my understanding, it is just an extremely fine abrasive that eats away a bit of the aluminum to reveal the silicon globules. The relieved area in between the silicon globs is the area that holds the oil film like the crosshatch on a conventional cast iron bore. And besides that, the aluminum substrate material is just really soft.

This thread is money -- Thanks XAlt!:
http://www.renn-list.com/Alusil-Cyli...0600247-3.html

[XAlt]

The AN30 isn't supposed to stay on the bore from my understanding, it is just an extremely fine abrasive that eats away a bit of the aluminum to reveal the silicon globules. The relieved area in between the silicon globs is the area that holds the oil film like the crosshatch on a conventional cast iron bore. And besides that, the aluminum substrate material is just really soft.

The dull substance on the M6x\7x wasn't that? Hmmm

"Resulting finish will be a dull matte that allows pistons and rings to ride on silicon instead of aluminum. "

[geargrinder]

OK so I got curious. The first stuff I had read about Alusil talked about the OEM's etching the blocks, but that seems like one of those "mass production for brand new blocks only" kind of processes. Little more searching. This pretty much spells out how to get a factory finish honing an Alusil type block. Doesn't seem like total rocket science but requires probably more precision than a lot of corner engine machine shops, and requires the special honing felt tools used with very low pressure and care, and to really do well, good analytical equipment to measure the results.

http://www.sunnen.com/NewsDetails.aspx?NewsID=11

This basically says the same thing and his lingo for the process itself is so close I suspect he's basically just rewritten the Sunnen copy...
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2016...uminum-blocks/

[tptrsn]

Great minds think alike dude! That Sunnen article is the first one I linked above. It does seem to be an oft copied piece of information.

This thread plus $87 M62 cam timing blocks I've recently found have re-ignited my interest in fooling around with these engines. Time to finally yank the heads off of my mockup motor and see what's going on in there.

[Mach540]

$87 cam locks??
More info please.

[geargrinder]

Attachment 601740
Ideally, you want this (picture from an abused M70). Looks like somebody went overboard with the cleaning job.

http://www.renn-list.com/Alusil-Cyli...0600247-3.html
https://www.porscherepair.us/power-s...-gts-54-i.html

Some people have it thicker than others, I suspect Porsche was on the thinner side.

I was reading while you were posting this... huh... that "homebrew honing" sure looks shockingly easy. Wondering why this is made out to be such a big deal, if that works? Assuming it works?

Did some more poking around on Rennlist and seems there's now a ton of the P-car guys home-honing their blocks this way... but a bit less of "yeah and I am running it on the track at redline and have extremely normal oil consumption and great OCA's" But if it works then all the "Alusil can't be honed" stuff seems to be obsolete garbage really...