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Thread: Increasing interest in 8 series?

  1. #176
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    1994 E31 850CSi
    Ordinarily, the Calypso wouldn't have been my choice of colour for the 5.7, but that car is stunning!
    I like the subtle, de-badged look with the lack of Alpina exterior stripes or stitching on the seats.
    The plain black buffalo hide continues the 'incognito' look.
    Is that small display window to the left of odometer, the gear position indicator?
    How do the 'Shift-Tronic' auto's perform compared to the manuals?
    Is there a way of telling if this was a CSi-based car or 850-based?

    The tailpipes look slightly oval on this car - never noticed that before.
    Also the 350 km/h speedo

    Hope it goes to an owner who wants to drive it. Fast.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by kiwiCSi; 09-28-2017 at 06:23 PM.
    Current:
    1994 E31 850CSi Sterlingsilber/Anthracite Buffalo

    Previous:
    1987 E28 M5 Delphin
    1986 E23 M745iA Arctic Blue
    1986 E24 635CSi Polaris
    1976 E3 3.0 Si Arctic Blue

  2. #177
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    '92 850i 6-speed (SOLD)
    Regarding the Alpina for sale mentioned in the last couple of posts, can anyone comment on the buffalo hide leather? I noticed some discoloration in the back seats, but given the low mileage, is this how it's supposed to look? Generally e31 backseats are the most pristine part of our cars.

    Sean

  3. #178
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    1994 E31 850CSi
    The back seats need a good leather food/treatment, as they've dried out quite a lot by the look of them.
    Mine looked similar before I conditioned them a couple of years back - two previous owners hadn't bothered to condition the leather.
    Current:
    1994 E31 850CSi Sterlingsilber/Anthracite Buffalo

    Previous:
    1987 E28 M5 Delphin
    1986 E23 M745iA Arctic Blue
    1986 E24 635CSi Polaris
    1976 E3 3.0 Si Arctic Blue

  4. #179
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    It was amazing how the ALPINA 5.7 cars could be optioned. Most of them had the Black Buffalo leather interior and most included the stripped seats. They could also be ordered debadged. My 5.7 originally came debadged, but I have put them back on during the restoration. This car also has no side ALPINA stripes. My car was also optioned without the side stripes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sniff38 View Post
    Regarding the Alpina for sale mentioned in the last couple of posts, can anyone comment on the buffalo hide leather? I noticed some discoloration in the back seats, but given the low mileage, is this how it's supposed to look? Generally e31 backseats are the most pristine part of our cars.

    Sean
    That could actually just be the texture in the Buffalo hides.
    Last edited by rogbmw; 09-26-2017 at 08:38 PM.
    CSi #18 - Car & Driver Magazine 1994 actual test car
    -- Hellrot/Black-Gray (1 of 1 NA CSi color combination)
    BMWCCA E31 Chapter International Clubs Liaison
    North America Representative, 8er.or Board of Directors




  5. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogbmw View Post
    It was amazing how the ALPINA 5.7 cars could be optioned. Most of them had the Black Buffalo leather interior and most included the stripped seats. They could also be ordered debadged. My 5.7 originally came debadged, but I have put them back on during the restoration. This car also has no side ALPINA stripes. My car was also optioned without the side stripes.

    - - - Updated - - -


    That could actually just be the texture in the Buffalo hides.
    As always Roger, your comments are both informed and useful.
    Are you able to answer any of my questions posted above?
    Current:
    1994 E31 850CSi Sterlingsilber/Anthracite Buffalo

    Previous:
    1987 E28 M5 Delphin
    1986 E23 M745iA Arctic Blue
    1986 E24 635CSi Polaris
    1976 E3 3.0 Si Arctic Blue

  6. #181
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    1994 850CSi, 2007 M5
    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiCSi View Post
    ...
    Is that small display window to the left of odometer, the gear position indicator?
    ..
    Isn't that where it displays Sport or Comfort mode?
    1994 850CSi, 2007 M5, 1990 VW Westy Syncro, 2010 e61 Touring Manual

  7. #182
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    Wasn't sure if all Alpina's have the two modes like the CSi, but if so, I guess it makes sense that both values will display in that window, like the regular E31 switchable auto's do.

  8. #183
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    850 CSI
    Is that small display window to the left of odometer, the gear position indicator?
    --> E or S mode (like CSI)

    Is there a way of telling if this was a CSi-based car or 850-based?
    --> All 5.7's are CSI based (CSI vin), bought from BMW as CSI and 5.7's are included in the total production numbers of the CSI.
    --> I believe all are based on EU spec CSI but not 100% sure


    Can someone confirm it is the correct alpina lip ? (looks different, left and right from alpina text: normally 2 lines .... matching the alpina stripes if added).
    Last edited by clubE31; 09-27-2017 at 05:37 AM.
    BMW 850 CSI march 1994 (EU spec), SOLD. https://www.classiccars-forsale.com/...94-bmw-850csi/
    BMW 850 CSI november 1994 (EU spec)

  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by clubE31 View Post
    Is that small display window to the left of odometer, the gear position indicator?
    --> E or S mode (like CSI)
    Yes, I guess my question was is that where the gear position is also shown, for the 5.7's which have the "Shift-Tronic" transmisison?

    Quote Originally Posted by clubE31 View Post
    Is there a way of telling if this was a CSi-based car or 850-based?
    --> All 5.7's are CSI based (CSI vin), bought from BMW as CSI and 5.7's are included in the total production numbers of the CSI.
    --> I believe all are based on EU spec CSI but not 100% sure

    Not all of the 57 Alpina B12 5.7 coupes were built from 850CSi's, as BMW could not supply enough CSi's to meet Alpina's orders. Therefore some 5.7's were built up from regular 850i bodyshells. For example, there were seven (7) RHD B12 5.7's built, but only one (1) of these came from an 850CSi
    chassis (serial #CC88150). The remaining six (6) RHD Alpina cars were built from 850i's.
    It was a similar scenario with the LHD 5.7's - I'm just not sure exactly how many of those cars were originally 850CSi's.
    As far as I know, all B12 5.7's were ECE spec.
    The LHD cars benefited from equal-length exhaust headers, while the RHD cars had to make do with the cast headers from the CSi. To compensate for the difference, engine mapping was done to produce the same output.

    Quote Originally Posted by clubE31 View Post
    Can someone confirm it is the correct alpina lip ? (looks different, left and right from alpina text: normally 2 lines .... matching the alpina stripes if added).
    The front lip looks exactly the same as several others I've seen - some with and some without the Alpina stripes.
    Last edited by kiwiCSi; 09-28-2017 at 06:22 PM.
    Current:
    1994 E31 850CSi Sterlingsilber/Anthracite Buffalo

    Previous:
    1987 E28 M5 Delphin
    1986 E23 M745iA Arctic Blue
    1986 E24 635CSi Polaris
    1976 E3 3.0 Si Arctic Blue

  10. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiCSi View Post
    It was a similar scenario with the LHD 5.7's - I'm just not sure exactly how many of those cars were originally 850CSi's.
    Have done a bit more digging and, according to M Registry, there were 49 ECE LHD 850CSi's built into Alpina B12 5.7 Coupes, and 1 ECE RHD CSi (see excerpt below).
    Which leaves a balance of seven (7) non-CSi Alpina's - out of the 57 examples produced.
    It would seem that six (6) of those were RHD's (of the total seven RHD B12 5.7's that we know about), leaving only one (1) LHD Alpina 5.7 that was not built from the CSi platform.

    Excerpt from BMW M Registry's FAQ for BMW 850CSi:
    How many of each version were produced?
    EG91 (ECE, LHD): 1,125 produced from 08/1992 through 10/1996 (includes 49 examples of the Alpina B12 5.7 coupe)
    EG92 (ECE, RHD): 160 produced from 06/1993 through 06/1996 (includes 1 example of the Alpina B12 5.7 coupe)
    EG93 (USA, LHD): 225 produced from 10/1993 through 06/1995
    Current:
    1994 E31 850CSi Sterlingsilber/Anthracite Buffalo

    Previous:
    1987 E28 M5 Delphin
    1986 E23 M745iA Arctic Blue
    1986 E24 635CSi Polaris
    1976 E3 3.0 Si Arctic Blue

  11. #186
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    850 CSI
    thx guys....good info (5.7 is still on my list.......) and not much info available on these cars. I might check it out on saturday (just 1 hour drive).
    BMW 850 CSI march 1994 (EU spec), SOLD. https://www.classiccars-forsale.com/...94-bmw-850csi/
    BMW 850 CSI november 1994 (EU spec)

  12. #187
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    850 CSI
    Guys I already asked the moderators:
    - why is the 850 CSI not in the M-section ? (not enough interest was the answer.... LOL)
    - m-sport build car with m-sport chassis number
    - On the german title the type is: M8 and produced by: BMW motorsports ! (I have a copy of it with my cars)
    - and lowest production run ever for a BMW, so actually a very rare M-sports car
    - the only thing it does not have is an M-badge !

    We have lot's of active CSI owners on this forum, so we could share more specific info on these cars (and probably get more owners joining). Not only for us but also for people that want to own one.
    Maybe if we all start supporting this we could get it done.....

    Just an idea.
    BMW 850 CSI march 1994 (EU spec), SOLD. https://www.classiccars-forsale.com/...94-bmw-850csi/
    BMW 850 CSI november 1994 (EU spec)

  13. #188
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    850 CSI
    And sorry back to the Alpina (discussion in our local club .....).
    - Apperently you could buy an 850 with a factory approved Alpina engine option (look at the advert, it is listed as an option: 0920), not sure if that would mean it would get an alpina number (I guess, because it was done at Alpina).
    - Looks like this car is an 850, with lots of options, all the M-sport options and the Alpina engine option (and no AHK i bet, would prove it I guess)
    - WOOD center: CSI and alpina 5.7 have the wood around the switches, the 850 has black inlay

    It is number 39 and imported from Germany........looks like this is one of the few 5.7's based on an 850.
    Will check as well with the german club.....see if they know the car.

    Want to check it out myself (just called) but he is already negotiating with a buyer.
    BMW 850 CSI march 1994 (EU spec), SOLD. https://www.classiccars-forsale.com/...94-bmw-850csi/
    BMW 850 CSI november 1994 (EU spec)

  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by clubE31 View Post
    And sorry back to the Alpina (discussion in our local club .....).
    - Apperently you could buy an 850 with a factory approved Alpina engine option (look at the advert, it is listed as an option: 0920), not sure if that would mean it would get an alpina number (I guess, because it was done at Alpina).
    To my knowledge, all 57 Alpina B12 5.7 Coupes received the Alpina Serial number plaque.

    Quote Originally Posted by clubE31 View Post
    - Looks like this car is an 850, with lots of options, all the M-sport options and the Alpina engine option (and no AHK i bet, would prove it I guess)
    - WOOD center: CSI and alpina 5.7 have the wood around the switches, the 850 has black inlay
    This car definitely has AHK, as did all B12 5.7's.
    You can even see the telltale AHK symbol illuminated in the picture of the instrument cluster (see pic below).
    They all had the wood trim, as well.
    I've read elsewhere that 32 of the 57 Alpina B12 5.7 Coupes had the 'Shift-Tronic' 6-speed transmission - essentially a forerunner of BMW's SMG system, first offered in the 1997 E36 M3 Evolution.
    Funnily enough, the 'Shift-Tronic' Alpina 5.7 version appeals to me over the traditional manual. But I'm curious as to where the selected gear position is displayed in the cluster - hence my previous question.

    Quote Originally Posted by clubE31 View Post
    It is number 39 and imported from Germany........looks like this is one of the few 5.7's based on an 850.
    Will check as well with the german club.....see if they know the car.
    If this one is based on the 850 and not the CSi, then it's quite possibly the only such LHD one - according to the numbers researched in my previous post.

    Quote Originally Posted by clubE31 View Post
    Want to check it out myself (just called) but he is already negotiating with a buyer.
    Did the dealer mention a price?
    Would hate to think what they're asking for this car.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by kiwiCSi; 09-28-2017 at 06:48 PM.
    Current:
    1994 E31 850CSi Sterlingsilber/Anthracite Buffalo

    Previous:
    1987 E28 M5 Delphin
    1986 E23 M745iA Arctic Blue
    1986 E24 635CSi Polaris
    1976 E3 3.0 Si Arctic Blue

  15. #190
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    850 CSI
    Checked the car (2 clubs) and it is original. Just cannot check if it was delivered as displayed, but given the mileage it should be ok (nobody swaps an Alpina interior).
    The wood, Alpina had this version of their own wood (I did not know this), confirmed by a few German members.

    Price I do not know (no point in asking if he is already negotiating.....he can give me any number and probably will not tell me anyway).
    But he is known for pretty high prices (but has special cars...... he has a hammer for sale....ultra rare ugly beast).

    p.s. Just visited another classic car dealer (he sells high end cars.... the kind of cars that do not have a price advertised and his customers are collectors).
    He mentioned that investors/collectors are looking for these cars at the moment (CSI's and Alpina's), different buyers then we used to see.

    Will we go the Z8 route !? (5,703 build)
    BMW 850 CSI march 1994 (EU spec), SOLD. https://www.classiccars-forsale.com/...94-bmw-850csi/
    BMW 850 CSI november 1994 (EU spec)

  16. #191
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    I've searched, but can't find any videos of the "shift-tronic" in action. Has anybody seen one working in the flesh or a video of how it works? I'd love to see how fast it can shift.

  17. #192
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    I just heard that the 5.7 above has sold. I have no more information than this.
    CSi #18 - Car & Driver Magazine 1994 actual test car
    -- Hellrot/Black-Gray (1 of 1 NA CSi color combination)
    BMWCCA E31 Chapter International Clubs Liaison
    North America Representative, 8er.or Board of Directors




  18. #193
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    The car in question (#39) was built and based on a euro CSi,VIN CC00820. It was not built on an 850i.
    CSi #18 - Car & Driver Magazine 1994 actual test car
    -- Hellrot/Black-Gray (1 of 1 NA CSi color combination)
    BMWCCA E31 Chapter International Clubs Liaison
    North America Representative, 8er.or Board of Directors




  19. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by David9999999 View Post
    I've searched, but can't find any videos of the "shift-tronic" in action. Has anybody seen one working in the flesh or a video of how it works? I'd love to see how fast it can shift.
    It's some German copy of Ferlec but with six speeds, codeveloped by LUK.

    The tronic names first appeared on their V8 E34s as "switch-tronic" which is step. Somebody needs to copy the EGS and shifter for those.
    Last edited by XAlt; 09-29-2017 at 04:31 PM. Reason: It's not an auto apparently

  20. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogbmw View Post
    The car in question (#39) was built and based on a euro CSi,VIN CC00820. It was not built on an 850i.
    Thanks for clarifying this Roger, will add these details into my database.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rogbmw View Post
    I just heard that the 5.7 above has sold. I have no more information than this.
    Thanks for the update Roger....I won't need to buy that lotto ticket now!

  21. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by David9999999 View Post
    I've searched, but can't find any videos of the "shift-tronic" in action. Has anybody seen one working in the flesh or a video of how it works? I'd love to see how fast it can shift.
    Not sure how much faster, effective - or reliable - the electronic clutch system was, but it would've been significantly quicker than the standard left foot operated clutch, for sure.
    Although more than half of the 57 cars were ordered with Shift-Tronic, it may not have been everyone's cup of tea - as evident by Roger's car (originally a Shift-Tronic) being converted to the manual configuration by a previous owner.

  22. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by clubE31 View Post
    Guys I already asked the moderators:
    - why is the 850 CSI not in the M-section ? (not enough interest was the answer.... LOL)
    - m-sport build car with m-sport chassis number
    - On the german title the type is: M8 and produced by: BMW motorsports ! (I have a copy of it with my cars)
    - and lowest production run ever for a BMW, so actually a very rare M-sports car
    - the only thing it does not have is an M-badge !

    We have lot's of active CSI owners on this forum, so we could share more specific info on these cars (and probably get more owners joining). Not only for us but also for people that want to own one.
    Maybe if we all start supporting this we could get it done.....

    Just an idea.
    Totally agree on the M-status of the 850CSi.
    It should definitely be included in the M-section, along with all the other great M-cars, like the E24 M6/M635CSi - which incidentally, didn't even have a WBS VIN!
    Oh, and the 850CSi does have an ////M badge - it's on the engine cover!

  23. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiCSi View Post
    Totally agree on the M-status of the 850CSi.
    It should definitely be included in the M-section, along with all the other great M-cars, like the E24 M6/M635CSi - which incidentally, didn't even have a WBS VIN!
    Oh, and the 850CSi does have an ////M badge - it's on the engine cover!
    North American E36 ///M treatment for the 8 series but no ///M badge on the back = denied. Doesn't have a DOHC ///M engine with cool performance stuff like ITBs so it can't be honorary M (Italian 320i or the 745 ZA) either. The only legacy car lower on that scale is the E12 M535i.
    Last edited by XAlt; 09-29-2017 at 10:38 PM.

  24. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by XAlt View Post
    North American E36 ///M treatment for the 8 series but no ///M badge on the back = denied. Doesn't have a DOHC ///M engine with cool performance stuff like ITBs so it can't be honorary M (Italian 320i or the 745 ZA) either. The only legacy car lower on that scale is the E12 M535i.
    Actually, the 850CSi does not need 'honorary' M-status, because it is a true M-car, developed and built by BMW's Motorsport division (the same division which was solely responsible for bringing us the E9 CSL, E12 M535i, E26 M1, E28 M5, E30 M3, etc).
    Yep, those guys.
    That's why the CSi was given a 'WBS' VIN and S-coded engine - to denote its BMW Motorsport origins.
    And also why the type code on all European delivered 850CSi's was 'M8'.
    To suggest that the 850CSi is not an M-car is completely unfounded when viewed against the facts.
    It would also be an insult to the dedicated team of BMW M-engineers and technicians who designed and built it.

  25. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiCSi View Post
    Actually, the 850CSi does not need 'honorary' M-status, because it is a true M-car, developed and built by BMW's Motorsport division (the same division which was solely responsible for bringing us the E9 CSL, E12 M535i, E26 M1, E28 M5, E30 M3, etc).
    Yep, those guys.
    That's why the CSi was given a 'WBS' VIN and S-coded engine - to denote its BMW Motorsport origins.
    And also why the type code on all European delivered 850CSi's was 'M8'.
    To suggest that the 850CSi is not an M-car is completely unfounded when viewed against the facts.
    It would also be an insult to the dedicated team of BMW M-engineers and technicians who designed and built it.
    Then it is in an M Car in the same way a US E36 M3 is, a cost effective engine solution inside a very solid package. It fit the super luxobarge that with two doors, fitting a CSL badge would be a good joke, and it's very different from the M6's wolf in sheep's clothing approach, nor was it apparently ready to become a big boy supercar (like the M8 concept) for one reason or another. They had another car purpose built for that task.

    If the E31/34 was more similar to the E24/28 relationship rather than leaning toward the E32 in weight, maybe we would have seen 3.8 M8 or something of the like.

    But you're right, the M535i is higher on the arbitrary M scale. It's not an honorary car in any sense since it predates everything but the M1, I was thinking of the Canada M540i.
    Last edited by XAlt; 09-30-2017 at 02:02 AM.

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