E36 M3 how does it compare to 4th Gen Z28

[734i]

Hello experts,
I'm already doing a '90 735i, which is how I've learned that I like the BMW community a lot better than the Camaro guys or the Mustang guys.
Is the E36 M3 the most Camaro-like? ( lightweight 2-door that can fit really wide tires? )
What about a 4-door to keep my wife happy? ( Which 4 door can be had super cheap but can fit at least a 275-width front tire on at least a 9.5"-wide front wheel? )
Thanks in advance,
-Dave

[jclausen]

There is no BMW made that is Camaro like, they are built completely different in every possible way. BMW's handle great, stop great, look great, are comfortable to drive, have a more integrated systems. The camaro could have lots of power depending on engine size, but that's it. The very newest camaros could be very good, but I have never owned any American cars. And the bmw's tend to cost more to repair. Think about this in 1986 every BMW sold in the u.s had abs brakes, incredible .

[BimmerBreaker]

275's on the FRONT? Why?

[734i]

275's on the FRONT? Why?

Cornering and braking grip. Why not?
Any '82-'02 Camaro can tuck 315s on 11s under the front. Not exactly 355s, but mostly adequate.

[734i]

There is no BMW made that is Camaro like, they are built completely different in every possible way. BMW's handle great, stop great, look great, are comfortable to drive, have a more integrated systems. The camaro could have lots of power depending on engine size, but that's it. The very newest camaros could be very good, but I have never owned any American cars. And the bmw's tend to cost more to repair. Think about this in 1986 every BMW sold in the u.s had abs brakes, incredible .

I'm not sure how to take this, it seems borderline snide. I thought this crowd was friendly and civil. I'm trying to be.
Camaro-like would be a compliment, and the E36 M3 seems close to qualifying. In much the same way that a Camaro is smaller, lighter, nimbler, more performance-oriented, and better-looking than a big old 4-door Caprice like the police used to use to pull your M3s over, those M3s seem to have a similar positioning against the 4-door '90 735i I'm starting with. It's a very comfy drive, it wallows less than a Caprice, it's easier to park than a Caprice, but every Camaro I've ever owned, regardless of options or engine or tires, could and would utterly destroy this E32 through any paved canyon in America. Could this E32 hang with an LT1-powered Police Caprice? engine-wise, heck no. But handling-wise? Certainly. So if the Caprice-equivalent BMW is like this, then maybe there's hope for a BMW to exist that's worth putting money into.
But the E36 M3 is over-hyped, over-priced, and no match for my stock '95 Z28. I know, I've humiliated many M3s in acceleration and in handling. On cheap Chinese tires, no less.
I also have an '87 Mustang LX, but those guys are arrogant jerks to an even greater extent than the Camaro crowd, I posted this hoping for better responses. Sorry for bothering you.

[323i E30]

I'm not sure how to take this, it seems borderline snide. I thought this crowd was friendly and civil. I'm trying to be.
Camaro-like would be a compliment, and the E36 M3 seems close to qualifying. In much the same way that a Camaro is smaller, lighter, nimbler, more performance-oriented, and better-looking than a big old 4-door Caprice like the police used to use to pull your M3s over, those M3s seem to have a similar positioning against the 4-door '90 735i I'm starting with. It's a very comfy drive, it wallows less than a Caprice, it's easier to park than a Caprice, but every Camaro I've ever owned, regardless of options or engine or tires, could and would utterly destroy this E32 through any paved canyon in America. Could this E32 hang with an LT1-powered Police Caprice? engine-wise, heck no. But handling-wise? Certainly. So if the Caprice-equivalent BMW is like this, then maybe there's hope for a BMW to exist that's worth putting money into.
But the E36 M3 is over-hyped, over-priced, and no match for my stock '95 Z28. I know, I've humiliated many M3s in acceleration and in handling. On cheap Chinese tires, no less.
I also have an '87 Mustang LX, but those guys are arrogant jerks to an even greater extent than the Camaro crowd, I posted this hoping for better responses. Sorry for bothering you.

You were actually offended by that..??

[Hsurf]

I'm not sure there was anything snide mean't in the reply, the problem is the only person that can truly answer your question is someone that has driven your Camaro model and then every BMW in their range to know the closest match but as stated they are built and designed completely differently.
Everyone has their own idea of what a car should be like but even then, take two people, allow them to drive two different cars and you'll still get two different responses as to what they are like.
I don't know the Camaro at all but just looking at some of the pics from 90's through to current I'd place it more against M5's/M6's than the smaller M3.
I very much doubt this is much help but hopefully food for thought .

[MauiM3Mania]

The fourth gen f-body Z-28 was not in the same league as the E36 M3. I'm not inclined to search the interwebs, but you can go HERE for a link to a number of articles, including the entire Car and Driver article from 1997 that will shed some light on where the M3 stood at that time. Hint: It did well.

Regarding 275's in front on the E36, won't happen without real serious rolling, bending, stretching. excessive neg camber, etc. Besides, no need for road use. Auto-x guys tend to stay at 255 all around unless they are real serious and then flares (cutting, welding) come into play and 315s or 335s are used.

This thread is being moved to the E36 M3 sub-forum.

[pbonsalb]

You would have to cut and flare the fenders for more than 255. Look at Hard Motorsports V2 and DTM GR flares.

[XAlt]

There's always a misconception that these older ponies can't turn corners to save themselves, but they can have somewhat decent setups with all the aftermarket setups designed to alleviate its inherent shortcomings. But will a 3 hand the f-body's ass to it in handling, especially stripped down autox builds? The answer is YES, you're looking at stock handling that hangs along with Vettes of the era.

Both the 5 and the 8 (around the length of your Z28) are "piggy" autobahn sunroofmobiles by nature, and those could be a better reference, but they're all tipping the 2 ton scale. The entire BMW aftermarket is centered around the older 3s, drive one for yourself.

[notMpowered]

My mother had a 97 z28, and I now have a 98 m3 and there is no comparison in driving feel. The Camaro is a BOAT. It feels like I'm driving in a cab compared to the m3.
I drove it when it was only a couple years old, and it was still a boat then. Even my first car I had at the same time, my 86 325 had better driving dynamics than that car. It was fun in a straight line, and burned a shit ton of rubber though.

[rajicase]

98-02 Camaro is a pile of trash wrapped around a really solid engine/trans.
Really are crap cars. And they aren't even significantly quicker in a straight line; 0-60 and 1/4 times are within a few tenths of a second of an e36 M3 (AKA drivers race).
And are you really arguing that a solid rear axle F-body Camaro has decent handling? I think the F-body would be getting off lightly if you said the handling didn't suck; because they truly suck in that department.
And this is coming from someone who has sunk tons of money into turbocharging my M3 to keep up with my American muscle car loving buddies. I have been around/worked on/driven my share of F-bodies; new, old, stock, modded, auto, manual, etc. They are truly crappy cars from a holistic view point; interior is gross, they look disgusting, they handle like crap, they are not fast or even quick by todays standards, etc. The only respectable Camaro is the 6th gen (newest one)

And I will just ad that if you have 'smoked' an e36 M3 in your LT1 Camaro in a straight you are either A) lying (assuming stock v. stock) B) guy sucked at driving. And if you 'smoked' an e36 on a track/around corners then you again are A) lying or B) raced a guy who doesn't know how to drive.

[XAlt]

98-02 Camaro is a pile of trash wrapped around a really solid engine/trans.
Really are crap cars. And they aren't even significantly quicker in a straight line; 0-60 and 1/4 times are within a few tenths of a second of an e36 M3 (AKA drivers race).
The only respectable Camaro is the 6th gen (newest one)

And I will just ad that if you have 'smoked' an e36 M3 in your LT1 Camaro in a straight you are either A) lying (assuming stock v. stock) B) guy sucked at driving. And if you 'smoked' an e36 on a track/around corners then you again are A

The guy has tons of experience with swaps and suspension, even putting an old 3.8L V6 (and defended it) into an FB and has been posting very relevant LS swap info. He might be ironic with the last bit, because he clearly knows what a proper setup is.

[TH3 Shifty]

having owned 7 Fbodies, and my 98 M3.. i can tell you in a short short version

If you want raw speed, torque, cheap power... but with not so great interiors and rattles and squeeks.. the Fbody is a great car for you..

If you like a quiet refined drive with subpar power, with decent fit and finish, but great handling and cool style, the M3 is for you
I have built and rebuilt every Fbody i have owned (01,01,98,94,92,86,69) and i can tell you the power you can make with them is great.. HUGE modding potential and unlimited resources for motor/trans possibilities. They take a decent amount of time to set up for road handling, they are a bit nose heavy, but with the right combo you can make them handle decently.

The M3 already handles great, awesome creature comforts compared to the Fbody, more sophisticated style and presence, yes its more in insurance and more to maintain, parts are double the cost of an Fbody, and if you cant do the basic work and maintenance yourself, you're really going to spend alot on upkeep.

For me.. i would take my M3 over the 4th/3rd/and 1st gen any day. I have not driven the 5th or 6th gen, but they seem to be really upping the game lately with the 1LE and new Z28's.

hope this helps

[pbonsalb]

The OP should check out the engine swap subforum and consider putting an LSx motor and trans into the E36. With flares for wide tires. Fast and good handling.

[TostitoBandito]

Yeah, just go read through doktor_b's drift missile thread for all your widebody LS-swap needs.

[weedshoes]

Driving my friend's f body gives me more laughs than my e36 m3. I get a real kick out of being "that guy" doing rolling burnouts looking like a sex rapist behind the wheel, beating the door and pointing at any women whom are unfortunate enough to cross my path. It's almost as much fun as doing the same thing is his s10 blazer. The fun I have in the e36 m3 isn't anything like that. In the m3 I get my kicks from feeling the suspension do work, fighting for grip through corners, managing weight transfer. In the m3 it is about the exhilaration of the drive, the car becomes a mere tool and all you notice is the road. The camaro is more about the theater. The comment about a pile of garbage wrapped around a solid drive train is dead on, and in my opinion is what makes them so much fun. I'd never own one.

[propcar]

I wouldn't mind replacing my M3 with this Z28. This is guy is a beast

[Mklock]

I would trade my car right now for that z28^

[XAlt]

I wouldn't mind replacing my M3 with this Z28. This is guy is a beast

The days of tiny grilles are numbered.

Get them while you can.

[propcar]

I would trade my car right now for that z28^

The days of tiny grilles are numbered.

Get them while you can.

I'd take a ZL1 or 1LE as well! I think Chevy's hitting it outta the park with the newer Camaros. Alot of performance value and they got some serious engineering in their handling performance. The Z28 came with those Multimatic DSSV shocks, only Aston Martin One had come with that tech, now they're putting them in the Colorado ZR2 and you can get a 4-cylinder Diesel. Chevy has got my attention for sure.

[CGumina]

Driving my friend's f body gives me more laughs than my e36 m3. I get a real kick out of being "that guy" doing rolling burnouts looking like a sex rapist behind the wheel, beating the door any pointing at any women whom are unfortunate enough to cross my path. It's almost as much fun as doing the same thing is his s10 blazer. The fun I have in the e36 m3 isn't anything like that. In the m3 I get my kicks from feeling the suspension do work, fighting for grip through corners, managing weight transfer. In the m3 it is about the exhilaration of the drive, the car becomes a mere tool and all you notice is the road. The camaro is more about the theater. The comment about a pile of garbage wrapped around a solid drive train is dead on, and in my opinion is what makes them so much fun. I'd never own one.

This is so spot on it's terrifying.


The Camaro is ham-fisted, tire frying fun that works you like a rented mule in any form of cornering as it howls for mercy.

The M3 is a precise instrument of performance that gives you the confidence to drive harder and faster while the car begs for more.


Both are a riot, it's a matter of what fits your personality and needs more.

[XAlt]

This is so spot on it's terrifying.


The Camaro is ham-fisted, tire frying fun that works you like a rented mule in any form of cornering as it howls for mercy.

The M3 is a precise instrument of performance that gives you the confidence to drive harder and faster while the car begs for more.


Both are a riot, it's a matter of what fits your personality and needs more.

Why not both? OP does LS swaps.


Car enthusiasts are questionable people anyways.

[CGumina]

Why not both? OP does LS swaps.


Car enthusiasts are questionable people anyways.

I'm one of those oddballs that likes LS swapped stuff, but the E36 M3's should just be left alone in my opinion. It's not like we have a terrible drivetrain from the factory like some cars; the S52 is more than capable of making healthy power N/A.

If you buy one with a popped motor that's kind of haggard, well... then I get that. But I still prefer my M cars to stay true to their roots.

[Slater126]

You were actually offended by that..??

I'm actually offended by the original post! He should buy a Camaro. Leave the few remaining original E36 M3s alone. 275 tires up front. Shee÷et brother, please.