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Thread: 1997 M3 4 Door with LS/T56

  1. #1
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    1997 M3 4 Door with LS/T56

    Greetings!

    Been an observer for roughly a year and finally made the move to purchase a eligible candidate to perform an engine swap.

    I've rebuilt several engines (Chevy, Subaru, Honda), but never cross pollinated.

    Plan to refresh the car to OEM specs (OEM suspension, but good shocks/springs) and add a LS of 375 HP for a daily driver/utility/teaching tool. My son will be of driving age in a year or so and want him to understand basic vehicle mechanics/driving dynamics.

    He will assist in all the work and learn to drive on an autocross for a season in this car. Ok that is how I sold it to HQ...but it sounds good. Heck several requirements even in Boy Scouts for this project!

    Car is a 220,150 mile 1997 M3 4 Door Automatic with no modifications save for poor aftermarket headlights and radio. No collisions or paint work...except for the 'improvement' on the hood. Florida has baked the interior so all the leather has failed. Air Bag, Check Engine, and Control lights are on, needs a jump start to start it, but drives reasonably well. I count 12 small dents, clear coat on the roof flaking, and the horrible hood mural. Picture will follow.

    We negotiated a price of $3500. I'm happy with the deal-originally it was priced $6500 a year ago (yes I've been keeping tabs!) although many will say it was only worth $2500. The project education outweighs excess cost, if applicable.

    Appreciate all the forum posts...hope to make use of all the information that has been posted.

    17 05 27 BMW Rear Quarter

    17 05 27 BMW Front
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Tim Mc; 07-12-2017 at 07:15 PM.

  2. #2
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    Gave the car a wash, wax, and starting to nuke the interior of dirt.

    Also pulled some of the purpled window tint off and changed the oil.

    The brake lights are inop apparently due to the worn contacts.

    I also attempted some lacquer thinner on the M3 mural...it comes right off...with elbow grease. At least the paint that was on the side fenders came cleanly off. We will plan to repaint the hood and roof (clear coat) in time.

    Carfax shows the car was bought new 50 miles away and the 6 previous owners were all Florida based-hopefully this minimizes any rust/corrosion of chassis/hardware.
    Last edited by Tim Mc; 05-29-2017 at 05:57 PM. Reason: Spelling!

  3. #3
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    Hot damn I want an Estoril like nobody's business... Looking forward to progress.

  4. #4
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    The color is an eye catcher!

    Shot of the nearly OEM engine compartment. It will look much better with 8 cylinders pumping. :-)

    17 05 29 M3 Engine Compartment
    Last edited by Tim Mc; 07-12-2017 at 07:16 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Mc View Post
    Plan to refresh the car to OEM specs (OEM suspension, but good shocks/springs) and add a LS of 375 HP for a daily driver/utility/teaching tool. My son will be of driving age in a year or so and want him to understand basic vehicle mechanics/driving dynamics.

    He will assist in all the work and learn to drive on an autocross for a season in this car.

    The project education outweighs excess cost, if applicable.
    Very cool. It seems like you have a solid head on your shoulders and can take care of what needs to be done. I only fully appreciated the work I did with my dad on cars when I was young years later.

  6. #6
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    zhp43867: Thanks...but you give too much credit-it is really for me! But I will share it. My father had an interest in cars, but more of a waxer. Maybe my son won't be such a grease monkey when he grows up then!

    So I'm pondering the engine.

    First thought is local salvage yard L33 (aluminum 5.3) which can be had long block for $1600 to my door. Pretty reliable yard quality (86,000 miles)

    Craiglist offering is a LS3 long block for $2050. Unknown quality.

    I would expect we would replace the bearings and rings on any engine...

    Knowing this project won't be inexpensive...still odd I'm considering $450 for ~80 HP to be a hard decision. :-)

  7. #7
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    03 zhp, 97 e36m3, 04 zhp
    Using your son as an excuse... I see what you did there!

  8. #8
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    Maxima, M3 nxt!
    Have you considered buying a donor vehicle ? I'm looking at rear ended CTS-Vs and they are around 5-6k for a supercharged LS2 with all the needed stuff to pass smog and full AC, exhaust etc. I should be able to sell the panels and interior and recoup at least 1500-2k.

  9. #9
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    Space. I wish I could spread out more, but fortunate to have what I've got...not enough for another car. Appreciate the suggestion. I thought the LS2's were NA in the CTS-V gen 1?

    LS3: is complete, but a warranty replacement due to poor ring seal. Likely needs an overbore...really ramping the costs over the L33 take out with a cam and we are in business for low investment.

    S52B32: How much is a 220,000 mile good running motor sell for?

    Thanks.

  10. #10
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    Can and a half of lacquer thinner resulted in this:

    17 06 03 M3 Updated Hood

    The hood will be repainted-clear coat is dismal, but I had little interest in driving it that way. Interior cleaning continued.

    LS3 sold before we could take a look-it would have been a couple of thousand more than the L33 so likely we will select the truck motor option. Add a cam, hopefully we will touch 375 HP.
    Last edited by Tim Mc; 07-12-2017 at 07:17 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Mc View Post
    Space. I wish I could spread out more, but fortunate to have what I've got...not enough for another car. Appreciate the suggestion. I thought the LS2's were NA in the CTS-V gen 1?

    LS3: is complete, but a warranty replacement due to poor ring seal. Likely needs an overbore...really ramping the costs over the L33 take out with a cam and we are in business for low investment.

    S52B32: How much is a 220,000 mile good running motor sell for?

    Thanks.

    LS2's available in the 05-7 CTSV, and are naturally aspirated. 2nd gen V's are supercharged.
    If you can find an analog trigger AC pin PCM, you'll have an easier swap.
    The L33 I personally believe will be an easier path. I'll look at a PCM map for the 05 silverado that came with that engine and let you know. If it's an analog AC trigger wire, it'll be a far easier swap than a DBW setup on the later LS's.
    1998 M3 Sedan - LS3 M12T56 - A bad addiction.

  12. #12
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    OKsweetrides: Any help is appreciated! Not full up on the acronyms-AC = Air Condition trigger wire...either a cable controlled throttle body versus a drive by wire throttle body, I assume?

    Air Conditioning is a requirement here in FL. Maybe not for the first go, but eventually it needs to be in the cards.

    I agree on the L33. I put a deposit on one at a local yard. A 'baby' LS6 would be just perfect with a 3.91 gear, I'm thinking.

    Thanks for the response.

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    E36, E46
    Your S52 drivetrain should be worth $1500-2000 with harness and transmission.

    Where in FL are you located? Would love to see this thing come to life!
    '99 Estoril Blue + Dove Grey ///M3 coupe
    '04 Jet Black + Cinnamon ///
    M3 coupe


  14. #14
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    3.91 rear gear is a must! I'll be stepping down to a 3.64 or so but that's because I plan to go above the 375rwhp I'm at now and I'm stripped to 2720#.

    I've been tracking my LS6 Swapped M3 for 3 years now with zero issues, looking forward to this build!

  15. #15
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    jvit27: Honestly we are targeting Christmas for execution on the swap. Until then will be a rehash of all the mechanicals and some paint work. Although we are hoping to pick the engine up this weekend-we will see if it passes inspection. 120,000 miles young. Tampa area. $1500 for a 220,000 mile S52 automatic? Wow...I've not seen any on Craigslist since I've been watching. That would be nice-I assumed it would be worth pennies-thanks!

    Inflame: It was your video of the flying lap that pushed me over the top!...I miss the V-8 sound! This will be 95% street car...with plans to autocross and a couple of circuits (Daytona/Sebring are close).

    Getting the car titled tomorrow...
    Last edited by Tim Mc; 02-05-2019 at 01:14 PM.

  16. #16
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    Car tagged, new brake lights installed (at least one dash light has extinguished), and a new heart purchased!

    All aluminum truck engine...L33. 5.3 liter, 310 HP, 9.9 to 1 CR from a 2007 Silverado 1500 Extended Cab. 119,000 miles for $1430 out the door.

    All the numbers checked out: 12572733 block and 799 heads...clean heads under the valve cover too.

    Probably cheaper deals out there, but being able to line up a borrowed pick up and having it 1.5 hours distant so I can inspect before it arrives via shipper for $350 charge. I'm satisfied.

    Desire is for new rings, bearings, valves springs/seals, gaskets, deck the heads a touch and a slightly stronger camshaft. Hopefully headers, intake will result in ~375 CHP.

    Awaiting an image to load...

  17. #17
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    Last edited by Tim Mc; 07-12-2017 at 07:16 PM.

  18. #18
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    I'm not 100% certain but I believe the L33 has a 24x reluctor (and knock sensors under the valley cover), so you can use the ubiquitous "411" PCM or some of the newer blue/green PCM's like the 12586243. If the crank sensor is still on the block, check to see if it's black or gray. If it's black, the reluctor is 24x. The older analog PCM's make triggering A/C a non issue (vs. the newer serial PCM's). You'll have to decide whether you want to run a cable driven throttle body vs. drive-by-wire (DBW), cruise control and EVAP.

    These decisions will play into which PCM you choose. Lots of good info on LS1Tech.

    Tipsy
    Last edited by TipsyMcStagger; 06-11-2017 at 09:00 AM.

  19. #19
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    I have a L33 as well. They are a good option, however they nickel and dime you a little. After you buy a fbody oilpan, intake and other bits.

  20. #20
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    Tipsy: Very helpful. I checked...it's a black sensor. Glad as I'd prefer a cable throttle. ECU: I'd like to explore an aftermarket install. I'm familiar with a Holley HP system-I expect the negative is the price (~$1700). I will check LS1Tech out.

    fallguy: I figured this would be cheapest way to go with an aluminum block-certainly not cheap though! Of course, my previous experience is with Gen I SBC's...an aluminum block is a $3000 premium! I'm looking forward not lugging around a 150 pound cast iron block. I am surprised at the cost of a GM intake...

  21. #21
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    If your thinking of aftermarket efi systems check out FItech. They have a decently priced system, comes with injectors, rails, throttlebody, harness, metal intake, map sensor And a few other goodies. It was designed to fit in the car applications so it is a low profile intake. In the F.A.Q. section on their website there is lots of info that people have asked about. Would probably be cheaper buying that system and not having to source out everything else that it comes with.

    Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

  22. #22
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    I have an LM4 in my coupe.
    100% agree that an aluminum 5.3 can nickel and dime you to death.
    i left the rotating assembly untouched, but definitely touched everything else.
    345whp
    new diff is at the top of my shopping list. 3.23 isn't getting it done.
    always trying to make it lighter and faster

    ^^former build: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-neglected-M3/
    current build: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...car-build.html
    instant grams: doktor_b

  23. #23
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    The engine requires only a car intake and Camaro oil pan switch compared to a car LS style engine, no? I suppose compared to a take out it is very basic.

    Another order placed for new car parts...found one of the rear wheels cracked/welded. Got to expect losses on 220,000 mile automobile!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Mc View Post
    The engine requires only a car intake and Camaro oil pan switch compared to a car LS style engine, no? I suppose compared to a take out it is very basic.
    When you buy an LS1/LS2/LS6 dropout, you typically get an engine with a full F-body front accessory drive (FEAD - alternator, A/C compressor, PS pump, balancer, etc) all with the proper belt spacing. Depending on the vehicle it comes out of, you might already get the F-Body oil pan. You'll get a "car" intake manifold with the corresponding throttle body, fuel rails, injectors, etc. Plus you'll get an ECM/PCM and a wiring harness that's already tailored to all of this.

    It might seem that starting with an inexpensive "truck" engine is a good option. But in addition to needing an oil pan, you'll also need everything mentioned above and probably a few things I'm forgetting.

    Tipsy

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TipsyMcStagger View Post
    ... But in addition to needing an oil pan, you'll also need everything mentioned above and probably a few things I'm forgetting.

    Tipsy
    Not only that, but in the end after all the extra troubles it is still not an LSx engine.
    - 96 328is 6.0L. (LS1 to LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ad.php?2098938)
    - 96 328is 5.7L. (LS1 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1289987)
    - 95 ///M3 6.0L. (LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1619249)

    - 97 ///M3. (e46 Fender Flares/track car build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1727098)
    - 96 328is (Dual Fuel Pump to Surge Tank thread: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ad.php?1964025)

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