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Thread: E36M3 Brake Issue - please help diagnose

  1. #1
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    E36M3 Brake Issue - please help diagnose

    So, in a nutshell the brake pedal is not as firm as it should be and often is quite soft and kinda takes way too much travel at very low speed (and engine speed) while coming to a stop... but can be "pumped" to firmness...

    but the more specific thing that is weird is when on track and I am full threshold braking and shift into gear and then blip the throttle and let out the clutch the rev of the engine as the gear engages brings the firmness back in the pedal enough to often get me a little chirp of the tires as the brakes bite due to the pedal "coming back to me"

    I would prefer to buy the correct part(s) to fix it and not chase my tail on this one.

    Any help is greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Sounds like possibly the brake booster. There's a thread around somewhere of a discussion of this, especially about the fact a bad booster should make the brake pedal harder, not softer.

    I had a similar problem, but I know exactly what symptom you're talking about. The pedal firms up quickly and actually feels like it's pushing back up into your foot as you downshift. And you think, WTF!?

    I replaced and bled and etc, and when I replaced the brake booster, there's only a hint of that problem left, and extremely infrequently. That hasn't worked for everyone with these symptoms.

  3. #3
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    Well... I definitely do not have a problem of the pedal being too hard... and I also read that would be the symptom of a bad brake booster.

    However, I do hear the sound of the air going shh, shh, shh as I pump the brake pedal while stopped... which sounds like a brake booster symptom.

    Quote Originally Posted by aeronaut View Post
    Sounds like possibly the brake booster. There's a thread around somewhere of a discussion of this, especially about the fact a bad booster should make the brake pedal harder, not softer.

    I had a similar problem, but I know exactly what symptom you're talking about. The pedal firms up quickly and actually feels like it's pushing back up into your foot as you downshift. And you think, WTF!?

    I replaced and bled and etc, and when I replaced the brake booster, there's only a hint of that problem left, and extremely infrequently. That hasn't worked for everyone with these symptoms.
    Last edited by MemphisRob; 05-25-2017 at 01:49 AM.

  4. #4
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    I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. A SOFT brake pedal and the pedal 'pumping up' as you described, is sometimes fixed by replacing the brake booster, even though it's counter intuitive. That's exactly the symptoms my car had and replacing the booster fixed it. I'll see if I can find the older thread and post it.

  5. #5
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    Thanks.. I appreciate it. When you said you had only a hint of the problem left... what specifically still isn't 100% remedied as far as symptoms? Also, where did you get your part and did you only replace the booster?

    Quote Originally Posted by aeronaut View Post
    I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. A SOFT brake pedal and the pedal 'pumping up' as you described, is sometimes fixed by replacing the brake booster, even though it's counter intuitive. That's exactly the symptoms my car had and replacing the booster fixed it. I'll see if I can find the older thread and post it.

  6. #6
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    I've had about 9 track days sense I replaced the booster. Over those 9 days, I can remember that symptom occurring maybe 4-5 times, and only very very slightly. Nothing like prior to replacing the booster.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here's the older thread discussing the issue:
    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...e-booster-HELP!

  7. #7
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    After my 1st caliper rebuild / brake bleed on the E36 with a power bleeder I had the same issue. Pedal goes shhh shhh and soft brakes. I re-bled using a 2 X 4 cut to length to hold the pedal down (2 man method but with 1 person) and no more problem. I rebuild my calipers yearly and have not had it happen since going to 2 man bleed method. May try bleeding the brakes first.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68coug View Post
    After my 1st caliper rebuild / brake bleed on the E36 with a power bleeder I had the same issue. Pedal goes shhh shhh and soft brakes. I re-bled using a 2 X 4 cut to length to hold the pedal down (2 man method but with 1 person) and no more problem. I rebuild my calipers yearly and have not had it happen since going to 2 man bleed method. May try bleeding the brakes first.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
    When having brake problems, never a bad idea to go to whatever extent needed to bleed the brakes, again.
    I'm keying off the OPs comment "let out the clutch ......the pedal "coming back to me" "
    If true, it's more than air in the lines. And a classic symptom of the brake booster. Of course, can be other things too.

  9. #9
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    "pumped to firmness" sounds more like a master cylinder to me.

    If the booster were bad (not holding vacuum) then the pedal effort would be really high (no booster assist).

    The whoosh whoosh noise could be fluid going past the seals in the master.

    What's confusing is that it gets better with engine change... that does sound like a booster.

    So, Booster or Master Sorry I couldn't help more.
    2002 BMW M Roaster.
    1998 BMW 328is SCCA E Production road racer.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoMZ302 View Post
    "pumped to firmness" sounds more like a master cylinder to me.

    If the booster were bad (not holding vacuum) then the pedal effort would be really high (no booster assist).

    The whoosh whoosh noise could be fluid going past the seals in the master.

    What's confusing is that it gets better with engine change... that does sound like a booster.

    So, Booster or Master Sorry I couldn't help more.
    And to make the solution more painful....Or both!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeronaut View Post
    And to make the solution more painful....Or both!
    Why not!
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeronaut View Post
    And to make the solution more painful....Or both!
    With my luck, maybe so. If anyone has any other feedback, let me know this weekend before I order parts. Thanks.

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    My advice would be to buy both parts from FCP Euro - the booster is SUPER simple to swap out and check (two bolts on the master, one hose, one bolt on the pedal).

    If that works, return the master. If not, you've got what you need.
    2002 BMW M Roaster.
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  14. #14
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    I had to remove my ABS pump when I replaced the booster. So not super simple on my car (95 E36), but certainly not terribly difficult.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aeronaut View Post
    I had to remove my ABS pump when I replaced the booster. So not super simple on my car (95 E36), but certainly not terribly difficult.
    Wow - I had already removed my ABS, so maybe that's why it was so easy. Sorry!

    Doing just the booster (avoiding cracking open a brake line) is what I was after.
    Last edited by CoMZ302; 05-26-2017 at 10:34 AM.
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  16. #16
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    Both my e36's have a hissing/wooshing sound when i push the pedal with car off. On my 96 if i miss a blip and lock up the rears a bit abs kicks on (could be the firming feeling). I am battling soft brake pedal on my 94. Im getting the abs cycled this weekend professionally. Bled many times with power bleeder. Now im going to pay someone else.

  17. #17
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    FCP Euro doesn't show a brake booster available. I have a feeling that the OEM part number has been replaced because I have two E36M3 and both numbers are:

    1996 M3
    ATE: 10.6362-1905.4
    BMW: 34.33-2227778.9

    and

    1998 M3
    ATE: 10.6362-1905.4
    BMW: 34.33-2227778 J

    Anyone know a current part number to use to make sure I get a compatible booster/MC? Both my cars have ASC+T and ABS.


    Quote Originally Posted by CoMZ302 View Post
    My advice would be to buy both parts from FCP Euro - the booster is SUPER simple to swap out and check (two bolts on the master, one hose, one bolt on the pedal).

    If that works, return the master. If not, you've got what you need.

  18. #18
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    Got mine from Rock Auto, but mine is a 95, if that matters.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisRob View Post
    FCP Euro doesn't show a brake booster available. I have a feeling that the OEM part number has been replaced because I have two E36M3 and both numbers are:

    1996 M3
    ATE: 10.6362-1905.4
    BMW: 34.33-2227778.9

    and

    1998 M3
    ATE: 10.6362-1905.4
    BMW: 34.33-2227778 J

    Anyone know a current part number to use to make sure I get a compatible booster/MC? Both my cars have ASC+T and ABS.
    Look on realoem.com

    I'm at the track or I'd do it for you.
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  20. #20
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    That was the first place I tried. http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=34_0563

    It seems that the number they have is for the whole assembly and it isn't clear as to specifically what the "new" part number is that is correct for the E36 M3 with ASC+T and ABS.

    Quote Originally Posted by CoMZ302 View Post
    Look on realoem.com

    I'm at the track or I'd do it for you.

  21. #21
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    RockAuto shows this, and lists it as "Alternate/OEM Part Number(s): 34331160614, 34331162965":
    http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo....313643&jsn=397
    If it's the wrong part, RockAuto's return service is excellent.

    Seems RockAuto also has a rebuild service for your booster, so if you have the time, that'd pretty much guarantee fit.

  22. #22
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    yeah... I have that in my Rock Auto cart right now... but I was hoping for an OEM/ATE option. I was looking at getting this but I can't tell for sure if it would be correct... http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-e36-manu...BWFy6D&vxp=mtr

    edited to add... I just found a definite match... http://www.ebay.com/itm/201895668891



    Quote Originally Posted by aeronaut View Post
    RockAuto shows this, and lists it as "Alternate/OEM Part Number(s): 34331160614, 34331162965":
    http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo....313643&jsn=397
    If it's the wrong part, RockAuto's return service is excellent.

    Seems RockAuto also has a rebuild service for your booster, so if you have the time, that'd pretty much guarantee fit.
    Last edited by MemphisRob; 05-28-2017 at 11:49 AM.

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