1998 Dinan M Roadster

[PhilMZ]

Hi All,

I recently purchased a 47,000 mile Dinan Roadster. It was advertised as a S3 version - Dinan Under-Hood Tag # S30374.

The car is equipped with:
- Koni's on all four corners
- Dinan Sway Bars F&R
- Dinan Springs F&R
- Dinan 3.5 inch exhaust
- Dinan Supercharger
- Dinan Valve & Intake covers
- Dinan Strut Tower Brace
- Dinan Air Filter behind the LF headlight

- Stock Wheels & Tires
- Stock everything else as best I can tell (compared to my 1999 M Roadster)

- Oil Cooler & Inter-cooler are not seen???

Questions:
- Does anyone have a complete listing of all the S3 components (I have a Car & Driver article)?
- Does anyone have installation instructions?
- Where does the inter-cooler mount?
- Where does the oil-cooler mount?

I have combed the Dinan website and most of all reference documents are no longer available (I did find strut tower brace & alignment specs).
I have sent an email to Dinan asking for help but so far no reply.

Can anyone help me with understanding the Dinan S3 package.

Thanks so much,

Phil

[e30polak]

Dinan never offered an intercooler or aftercooler.

[PhilMZ]

Thanks e30Polak

Interesting ! Maybe that is why I can't find it BUT my understanding was the S3 Dinan M Roadsters carried a nomenclature of ISR 3. ISR = Inter-cooled, Supercharged, Roadster. What about the oil cooler?

Other thoughts out there???

[e30polak]

Check the oil filter housing to see if any lines are coming off of it. Those lines would lead to a cooler if it was part of the system.

[pbonsalb]

Dinan did do a few intercooled cars using a water air intercooler very much like the RMS -- Osh worked for Dinan many years ago.

[PhilMZ]

E30Polak & pbonsalb,

Thanks for your suggestions, I will go down to my shop and look for lines coming off the oil filter housing. I am totally new at superchargering so what did the RMS system look like and how can I tell if it exists. I have read the article from Car & Driver and as I previously stated the car was Labeled ISR 3 - inter-cooled supercharged roadster. There are only a couple of pictures one of the rear showing the 3&1/2" exhaust pipes and an under hood shot showing the overall engine bay but nothing up close. Does anyone have ant photos of this particular setup that they can share?

Thanks to both of you guys for trying to help me out,

Phil

[pbonsalb]

http://www.racemarque.com/product-ca...ts-e36-m3-usa/

[Randy Forbes]

There was an Estoril Blue Dinan ISR-3 at the very first Z3 Roadster Homecoming that my wife & I attended in 2001. It definitely had a charge cooler, as there were three (2 + 1) openings cut into the bumper to feed air into it and the relocated intake air filter.

That very same (Dinan serial numbered) car is now in Florida, and I dug up some old pics of it on another hard drive (plan was to forward them to the current owner, but now of course, I can't remember who that was )

When new, I believe the whole Dinan shebang, including wheels and 3.38:1 gears was a $35k package, bringing the list price of the car to somewhere between $80-$85k; you had to want one pretty bad! I think the guy here in Florida paid (waay-waay?) sub-$20k for it.

When I'm on another (network) computer, I'll try and remember to post up the pics...

BTW, that first trip to HC 01 (held at the factory in Spartanburg) was to collect this: the ultimate Homecoming souvenir!





All these years later, I still have all three (3); the girl, the gray car and the black '99 M Rdstr (also a '99 Estoril ES/TS Coupe)

[pbonsalb]

Was the one you saw air to air or air to water intercooled?

[Randy Forbes]

Was the one you saw air to air or air to water intercooled?

I can only guess, but thinking air to air.

[pbonsalb]

I know E46M3 Dinan top stage was air to air but at least the E36M3 Dinan very rare top stage was air to water like the race marque or RMS. Maybe Z3 had different fitment needs.

[PhilMZ]

Guys,

Thanks for all the information. My car was marketed as a ISR 3 but clearly if is not as it does not have an inter-cooler of either type. That said I still love the car, however it looks like the Dinan folks have bailed out of that market. I have sent two emails asking questions about the car but have yet to receive the courtesy of a return email. If anyone has any pictures of the installed inter-cooler and various pieces I would really appreciate being able to take a look. I am trying to decide if it is worth the hassle of trying to round up the parts and pieces.

Thanks to everyone that has contributed to this thread,

Phil MZ

[pbonsalb]

PM Braymond141. He probably knows more about the Dinan E36 Vortech systems than anyone, including the very rare intercooled E36 kits. He also sells refurbished kits sometimes and some replacement parts.

Basically, you would want to buy an RMS water to air intecooler system plus a new tune and larger injectors and HFM. For the tune, I would recommend NickG at Techniques Tuning. An NC shop called CES Motorsports works with him and can put your car on its dyno and have NickG tune it remotely.

[z3forlife]

How hot is too hot for IAT ? I have a Vf setup on my roadster w/o intercooler and worry about head gasket failure on long drives in the heat.

[PhilMZ]

pbonsalb,

Thanks for the leads. Can you share with me how to get in-touch with PM Braymond141 and Nick G at Techniques Tuning? And can you share with me the location of CES Motorsports? Sorry I keep asking for so many favors but the direction all of you guys are providing is GREAT!!

THANKS, Phil MZ

[Braymond141]

Dinan has used RMS style water to air aftercoolers before (according to Dan). The Z3M ISR did NOT use an aftercooler. It was a 10psi kit with a large front mount air to air intercooler setup. You can see it all here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/222504156261

Stage 1 Kit: Kit includes a Vortech V-1S supercharger with a 3.43" diameter pulley and a 5.14" diameter crankshaft pulley with a max. boost pressure of 6.5 psi., Lucas 28.8 lb./hr. injectors which replace the stock injectors, a new ECU calibration, Turbotronics 9 or 10 (air flow meter bridge circuit), inlet and discharge supercharger tubing, and an open element K&N-type air filter. The PCV system is modified with a two way valve to redirect crankcase gases during boost conditions. The supercharger kit does not utilize an air bypass valve.

Stage 3 Kit: Same components and modifications as the Stage 1 Kit with the inclusion of a new increased diameter throttle body.

Stage 4 Kit: Same components and modifications as the Stage 1 Kit with the inclusion of a new increased diameter throttle body, new air flow meter, and a new intake manifold (applicable to vehicles equipped with an on-board-diagnostic II (OBD II) system).

Intercooled Supercharger Kit: Same components and modifications as the Stage 1 Kit with the inclusion of a new increased diameter throttle body, new air flow meter, new intake manifold (applicable to vehicles equipped with an OBD II system), new high pressure fuel regulator, and an intercooler. The supercharger uses a 3.03" diameter pulley and a 5.5" diameter crankshaft pulley with a max. boost pressure of 10 psi.

Steve Dinan no longer owns Dinan. The new staff has little interest in helping anymore. ISR components are rare as hell, and that ebay listing is high priced crashed junk. See if he still has it for sale and remake everything yourself if this is a must have.

[Randy Forbes]

ISR #3 at BMW Roadster Homecoming 2001, seen here in front of The Marriott in Greenville, SC, host hotel for BMW PCD patrons (my wife & I) and the event itself..





Large air/air i/c visible in lower grille opening. Incidentally, the guy on the left, aka Clayton free BMW was a CCA raffle winner of a Z3 in either 2000 or 2001, so proof that the club really does give those cars away!




100-0004_IMG_4.jpg100-0007_IMG.jpg100-0003_IMG_4.jpg4

[pbonsalb]

If the OP wants to try to duplicate that IC, Bell Engineering makes good IC. I have a Bell on my turbo E36M3. The piping looks pretty custom. He would want a good fabricator to cut and weld that to fit. It would be a lot easier to install the RMS water/air unit. They fit Z3M cars. And effective -- I made 450 rwhp through the RMS intercooler when my E36M3 was supercharged.

For the tune (and also for install or custom work such as fabricating IC piping if you go air to air), CES Motorsports in NC is a good shop. They can also facilitate the tuning through Technique Tuning in FL remotely on their dyno.

http://www.cesmotorsport.com/

Bell Intercoolers can build whatever IC you need but you must supply dimensions. They have done some turbo IC for the E36 and probably have specs for those, but you probably want a different style IC -- maybe one with in/out on the same side. Not sure exactly what Dinan did.

http://bellintercoolers.com/

[Braymond141]

I'm over RMS aftercoolers. Air to air is just better to deal with if you sort the piping right. If I ever supercharge the S54 going into the E36 it will be a trick air to air.

[pbonsalb]

Air to water works pretty well. It is as widely used on factory forced induction cars as air to air. With a supercharger, air to air piping has a lot of bends that reduce efficiency and result in pressure drop so you have to spin the blower faster to compensate. It can be done well but is challenging. What Dinan did with the intercooled supercharged E46M3 was beautiful, for example. As direct as possible. I like air to air for simplicity and have air to air on my turbo E36. But when my E36 was supercharged I used the RMS because it had minimal pressure drop, fit perfectly and was effective. The guys doing air to air on supercharged E36 had significant pressure drop and a lot of piping with tight radius bends. They had to spin their blowers faster to make up for the pressure drop, heating the air more. The advantage was that it was much cheaper than the RMS air to water kit.

[Braymond141]

What Dinan did with the intercooled supercharged E46M3 was beautiful.

Exactly the inspiration I have planned for years to use... if I go FI again.

[GBPaterson]

Sorry to kick up an old thread, but I havent been online the last 6 months or so.

I've spent a lot of time reverse engineering the ISR3 and have reached the point that I have now got:
1. Vortech V1 Supercharger (pretty easy to figure out / come by if you try, sounds like you already have)
2. The larger size 5.5" * rib crank pulley with 3" sc pulley - The 3" 8 rib is easy, vortech sells them, the 5.5" I had to get CAD diagrams and then have it made up at a local machine shop, then anodized by another company. I posted a thread here on it somewhere.
3. S54 Radiator + Oil cooler + filter housing
4. The intercooler has stumped me for a while but recently piqued my interests so here I am again, from what I can tell the ISR3 used a Air-To-Air (not water) with a core that measured around 10.5 x 16 x 3 and mounted behind the aux fan, in fact it pushed the aux fan forwards. The measurements on the core are completely non-standard so either I got them wrong (possible) or the whole thing was custom. The side tanks are not uniform / different on either side so again it makes me lean towards custom.

Attached is one of a few pics I've managed to find which shows a mangled version.

s-l1600.jpg

- - - Updated - - -

Here was the entire kit that was being sold some time back.s-l1600_2.jpg

Oh also the Schrick intake manifold is rarer than unicorn poop, good luck on that one.

[GBPaterson]

5.5" ISR Spec 8 Rib Crank pulley CAD

ISR_Crank_CAD.png

[PhilMZ]

Hi GB,
Back last summer I purchased a 1998 M Roadster that was indicated to be an IRS3, it turned out rather to be a Dinan S3 car. Meaning it lacked a number of pieces...oil cooler, intercooler, intake and a few other small items. I contacted Dinan and they did not even offer a reply to my questions, so much for top shelf customer service. So I put the idea on a back burner until a few weeks back I started looking around for an intercooler. My most promising lead turned out to be RMS.

Here is the reply I received:

We do have a bolt on after cooler kit.

$1895.00


we see about 45 hp increase due to improved air density.


I don’t have any images of one fitted to a Dinan setup.


the cooler is the same as the one used on our 2t 2 systems. you can see it here.


http://www.racemarque.com/product/st.../#.WkV8g7Q-egA

I followed up with another email asking if they have an printed installation instructions but received no reply. I was dealing with a rep named Osh.

I would be interested in any type of installation that you come up with that would fit my Roadster.

Thanks, PhilMZ

[Braymond141]

Hi GB,
Back last summer I purchased a 1998 M Roadster that was indicated to be an IRS3, it turned out rather to be a Dinan S3 car. Meaning it lacked a number of pieces...oil cooler, intercooler, intake and a few other small items. I contacted Dinan and they did not even offer a reply to my questions, so much for top shelf customer service. So I put the idea on a back burner until a few weeks back I started looking around for an intercooler. My most promising lead turned out to be RMS.

Here is the reply I received:

We do have a bolt on after cooler kit.

$1895.00


we see about 45 hp increase due to improved air density.


I don’t have any images of one fitted to a Dinan setup.


the cooler is the same as the one used on our 2t 2 systems. you can see it here.


http://www.racemarque.com/product/st.../#.WkV8g7Q-egA

I followed up with another email asking if they have an printed installation instructions but received no reply. I was dealing with a rep named Osh.

I would be interested in any type of installation that you come up with that would fit my Roadster.

Thanks, PhilMZ

I would think GB already knows about the RMS aftercooler. He is trying to replicate the air to air setup (which is going to be better albeit more complex).

Osh is the owner of RMS.