Lowering car and camber questions

[deni2s]

I installed Bilsteins B8 with lowering springs and strut reinforcement plates on my 2.8 roadster. Seems like the front is a little higher than rear.

18527418_977956912307689_8351409537109396247_o.jpg

Any ideas what to do to fix that properly?

One idea, which comes to my mind, is to install camber plates from z3m to increase negative camber of front wheels. That way they will match the camber of rear wheels more and I hope the front will be a little lower (Any idea, by how much?). At the same time I hope that would allow to increase the front 3 piece wheel lip width by 0,5 inch (now 8" width wheels with et32 are flush with the arches).

And also maybe I can try to remove some weight from the rear, would that help a little? Planning to remove those weight things under roadster bumper and spare tire - I think it will not fit anyway on the upgraded front brakes from 330.

[SunzOut]

Ireland engineering - weld in Toe and Camber Kit for the rear...will sort most of your issues. Also look at rear springs with height adjusters (like TC Kline).

[killeen_john]

Running the strut tower reinforcement plates likely added some stack height up front however, lot's of non-adjustable lowering springs for our cars seem to lower the rear more so than the front. Weld in rear camber kit or adjustable springs with height adjusters are ideal but, playing with different thickness rear spring pads (5, 7.5, 10, 15 mm see link below) is the easy button here. This allows you to fine tune the rear ride height and set the rake to achieve your desired look. Note that going from 7.5 to 15 mm rear spring pads increases the rear height a lot more than the pad thickness due to the rear suspension geometry.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...9#post11466899

[deni2s]

Actually I am interested more in lowering the front than lifting the rear (front b8 + 20-30mm lowering spring looks the same height as stock m sport suspension). Interested in solutions which do not require changing struts/springs or welding toe-camber kits. In worst case I will consider rear spring pad (good idea, thanks!), but I would like to know if changing the camber for fronts with z3m camber plates could help (and at the same time maybe I can increase front wheel lip width for better looks as a bonus).

[ZoO]

nothing you can do to the front will lower it anymore. the issues you are having is the exact reason i use coilovers. i have never had a set of springs that dropped a car evenly. you might be able to get away with thinner spring pads, or a thinner top mount. other than changing front springs... thats about it

[Tim95M3]

No, camber will not affect ride height. At all. Your best bet is to raise the rear with thicker pads, or buy adjustable coilovers.

[BimmerBreaker]

This thread made me think... If you added enough camber to a wide enough wheel/tire, would it raise the car slightly as the wheels went from sitting flat to riding on the inside shoulder?

[danomite]

This thread made me think... If you added enough camber to a wide enough wheel/tire, would it raise the car slightly as the wheels went from sitting flat to riding on the inside shoulder?

It would effectively raise the overall height of the car slightly, but would give the appearance of the car being lowered (by tucking the outer portion of the wheel up into the wheel well.

[ZoO]

It would effectively raise the overall height of the car slightly, but would give the appearance of the car being lowered (by tucking the outer portion of the wheel up into the wheel well.

yes, in turn of deni2s were to add .5 to the outside lip, creating more "flushness", it will make the front end look higher.

[danomite]

deni2s, basically you're experiencing the dreaded "pick two" dilemma:

1. Low Cost
2. Good Range of Adjustability
3. Good Quality

...pick two.

The best way to address the height issue is to get spring pads for each side to level the car properly. As for the camber issue in the rear, the suggested Ireland Engineering weld-in camber correction kit (I'd also recommend getting the toe correction kit too, to stop you car from eating rear tires) is your best bet.

[z3forlife]

^^^+1. What he said. Lowering will eat your tires in very short order unless camber and toe plates are installed.

[deni2s]

Thanks for answers! Not sure if I can pass MOT inspection in my country with weld-in add-ons like camber correction kit. They don't like anything non-OEM here. Just put brand new Bilsteins b8 with acs springs, which was "Sport suspension" option offered by ACS. I like the stiffness and ride quality so far, so don't want cardinal changes like adjustable coilovers yet.

Actually the mechanic mentioned, that he could put the diff bush upside down and that might remove some negative camber from rear wheels. Any thoughts of that? OEM bush is eccentric (I know that powerflex replacement is centered). Anyway some negative camber on the rear - I don't see it as an issue.

[BimmerBreaker]

I'd be curious what exactly he thinks would happen if he moves the diff. Camber is a result of the suspension geometry, specifically the positioning of the trailing arm, and the axels go into the center of the hub so they have no minimal ability to leverage the hub at all. I mean as far as I know you can pretty much move the diff up and down freely and the suspension geometry will not change. Maybe I am wrong about that.

If you really need to fix this camber issue, you could alter the actual trailing arm mounting tabs so that the bolt holes are offset. Ie, if you install adjustable camber/toe kits its just to move the mounting bolt a few mm this way or that way. Theoretically you could just get tabs made that moved the bolt to where it should sit for correct camber. This would result in a subframe that is designed for lowered cars so it will allow proper camber/toe without the actual camber/toe adjustment kits. It will look just like OEM.

[danomite]

Actually the mechanic mentioned, that he could put the diff bush upside down and that might remove some negative camber from rear wheels. Any thoughts of that? OEM bush is eccentric (I know that powerflex replacement is centered). Anyway some negative camber on the rear - I don't see it as an issue.

My thoughts on that are as follows:

1. Slap mechanic very hard, and tell him he needs to go back to school.

2. The OEM bushing is eccentric for a reason...once the installed and the car is on the ground, the bushing is pre-loaded, and will then be centered.

3. As BimmerBreaker says, moving the differential up or down will not affect the trailing arms or suspension geometry at all...but it might help your subframe detach earlier.

4. You cannot change the camber without raising the car, or by moving the trailing arm mounting points. Get the weld-in kits, and install them. Your MOT won't even know that they aren't OEM if you do a decent job of installing/welding.

5. If you simply lower the car without the adjustable camber and toe kits, your will drastically reduce tire life...be sure to check the inner part of your rear tires every 2000 kms! The added toe that occurs from lowering our cars is your tires' biggest enemy.

Hope this helps.

[ZoO]

there might be a cheap way to keep the springs and lower more, lower the spring perch.

[deni2s]

there might be a cheap way to keep the springs and lower more, lower the spring perch.

On front?

[ZoO]

On front?

i just realized that would make it too low and hit the tire..

[fallguy]

IMG_5089.jpg
Here are my specs. I just have a washer in the lower strut mounts. No adjustments. This is with the B12 kit. Not too sure if I should get the adjuster kit for the rear.

thoughts?

[Remotion]

I have H&R + B8 and I have lots of weight removed and my biggest problem is rear that literally floats 5cm off the original fender height when they used to sit close to wheel. So removing any weight from trunk will solve your problem immediately.

[Remotion]

Denis you can buy my original rear axle carrier which i have now left over, part nro: 33 31 1 090 957

Then you order this kit: http://www.millway.se/justeringskit-..._store=swedish

I have a guy with 3.0 coupe who did his own and mine just with camber and toe kit.
Cleaning - Welding - Media blasting - Powder coat.

Price is affordable for both my part and for his work and all very near your living quarters..

[deni2s]

Denis you can buy my original rear axle carrier which i have now left over, part nro: 33 31 1 090 957
Then you order this kit: http://www.millway.se/justeringskit-..._store=swedish

Thanks about telling about that rear end thing - I think removing spare tire and those ballasts under bumper cover could help me just enough.
I never complained about my toe/camber, why is everyone trying to sell me the kit so desperately ? According to @fallguy comment above seems like camber/toe with similar setup is within normal specs limits. Probably I need to measure my cars toe/camber before making any decisions.

[fallguy]

I'm still thinking about getting the kit for the rear, However what would I adjust?

Would it be worth the $$ and effort. The car just has the B12 kit and much bigger wheels and tires.

[Remotion]

Your rear camber will be 3.20°. Ideal spec for Z3/M coupe or roadster is around 1.45°.
There is nothing wrong with having more camber for ex 2 - 2.30° but uneven tirewear and tramlining are symptoms.
And tramlining is more symptom of a way too big toe in that happens always when lovering our cars.
I am now running 0.08° toe in per side at rear and that seems to be good value.